Francesco Totti

Balu

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The honours argument obviously only goes so far. I'm not saying Arbeloa is a greater player than Totti for winning more prizes, but there are plenty of players who were pivotal for prize winning squads. I'm talking about the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Seedorf, Ronaldo, Messi etc. Surely they rank in an echelon above Totti's?

Chosing to stay at Roma is great, a true hero of Rome, up there with Caesar, but in my book never taking the plunge at one of the top dogs makes you a lesser player, not a greater one. I'm not at all ridiculing him for it by the way, football would be a much greater sport if all great players stayed at the club they came up as, but that's not the reality we live in.

I refuse to hail Stevie-me as some sort of all time hero, for never leaving pool, so I'm not changing my standards for Totti ;)
Spot the odd one out?
 

KirkDuyt

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Actually in The Netherlands we don't really rate Seedorf and neither do I, but I wanted at least one person not from Barca/Madrid. Swap him with whomever you like :)
 

giorno

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Actually in The Netherlands we don't really rate Seedorf and neither do I, but I wanted at least one person not from Barca/Madrid. Swap him with whomever you like :)
Ok, i will swap him with Totti. Totti belongs in the same category as Xavi and Iniesta
 

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Ok, i will swap him with Totti. Totti belongs in the same category as Xavi and Iniesta
You tricked me!:mad:
 

RobinLFC

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Totti was a great player but definitely a tier below Xavi and Iniesta for me.
 

Sylar

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Francesco...

Do wish he had played elsewhere but kudos to him for not wanting to.
 

matherto

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Happy to have seen him live.

Even happier that it was during the 7-1.
 

Vidyoyo

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I don't think the OP is wrong. Great player, one of the best of his generation, but not one of the best of all time.
 

giorno

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I don't think the OP is wrong. Great player, one of the best of his generation, but not one of the best of all time.
Depends on your definition of "all time". Top 20 all time? Sure he isn't. Top 50? Probably. Top 100 for sure.
 

DWelbz19

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Depends on your definition of "all time". Top 20 all time? Sure he isn't. Top 50? Probably. Top 100 for sure.
He’s not top 50. Top 100 is a maybe.
 

Sonnet XVII

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What is being argued here? Not sure, but anyway — while Totti is definitely romanticized for being a one club man (mind, this started mostly towards the latter phases of his career when he had already established himself as an All-Time great Italian), he is also one of the absolute greatest players of his generation on pure merit based on his skill set and performances alone — in contrast with say De Rossi. It's a bit analogous to Zanetti, come to think of it — not a one club man per se, but at Internazionale for close to two decades — and while that added to the narrative of his career and rating as a player — he would have been considered an All-Time great fullback even if you discount the bonus romantic factor.

In terms of pure ability, Totti's up there and probably second to only Baggio for Italians in the last 40 years: a complete attacker wrt. dribbling and passing (thrice Serie A assist leader) and scoring — and hardworking to boot.

Wrt. performances, he was astounding when Roma got their act together and built a competitive side around him — plus, he was spectacular in the 2000 European Championship and arguably the Player of the Tournament with Zidane (and would have won it if Del Piero had been a bit more decisive).

Wrt. his legacy from a tactical sense, he ushered in the new trequarista/False 9 era under Spaletti and left a mark on the era:
The only solution was to play Francesco Totti upfront, but rather than remaining upfront alone and waiting for service, Totti effectively played his usual trequartista role, moving into the gap between opposition defence and midfield and receiving the ball to feet. Perhaps 4-6-0 is an exaggeration, but it was certainly 4-5-1-0.

The system worked so well that even when Roma’s fit forwards returned, Totti continued to be deployed as the furthest forwardcentral player, with Mirko Vucinic – a striker in any other team in the world – converted to an outside left to ensure a goal threat from the wings. But whilst Totti is perhaps not natural a ’striker’ per se, that does not mean he is not comfortable operating there. His 26 goals in 2006/07 were enough to win him the European Golden Boot, and his position on the all-time Serie A goalscoring table proves what a fine finisher he is.
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/05/teams-of-the-decade-5-roma-2007/

As for not winning enough, neither did Riva (only one Serie A title at Cagliari), yet he's still the greatest Italian striker of all time and one of the greatest strikers of all time overall. Both he and Totti might've been rated higher if they played for Juventus and won a bunch of titles while playing with great team-mates, but they're legends even without them.
Honestly not even best forwards of his generation lists.
Who would you rate ahead of him, if you don't mind my asking? Can think of only Henry and peak Rivaldo in that tier if you consider players that were born in the 70s decade — everyone else was either worse than Totti (including Raúl, Del Piero and the likes), or from overlapping generations.
 
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KirkDuyt

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Who would you rate ahead of him, if you don't mind my asking? Can think of only Henry and peak Rivaldo in that tier if you consider players that were born in the 70s decade — everyone else was either worse than Totti (including Raúl, Del Piero and the likes), or from overlapping generations.
I'll admit that not one of the best of his generation was pushing it a bit :lol: Just the two you mention and Brazilian Ronaldo then I suppose, if we're talking born in the 70s.

good post btw ;)
 

KirkDuyt

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It also has to be said that Totti was a great player but a difficult personality.

@Ramshock

Ah feck,any mod that can fix the thread title?
 

Chipper

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That doesn't make sense.
I thought that at first too, but I suppose there is a distinction between best and greatest.

Greatest incorporates persona, charisma, legend and load of other intangibles. Best is just a factual thing. A robotic machine of a player that leaves you cold could be the best but not the greatest. Not that Baggio left many people cold either. He was a proper hero to loads as well.
 

vincent11

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I thought that at first too, but I suppose there is a distinction between best and greatest.

Greatest incorporates persona, charisma, legend and load of other intangibles. Best is just a factual thing. A robotic machine of a player that leaves you cold could be the best but not the greatest. Not that Baggio left many people cold either. He was a proper hero to loads as well.
You're saying that Totti had more charisma and is more of a legend than Buffon, Del Piero, Maldini or Pirlo ? No way
 
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Chipper

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You're saying that Totti had more charisma and is more of a legend than Buffon, Del Piero, Maldini or Pirlo ? No way
No I'm not saying that. I wasn't trying to pass comment on who was the best or greatest Italians, I'll leave that to @giorno I wasn't intending to talk about the players he/she mentioned at all.

All I'm saying is that I can see how in the eyes of some there is a difference between best and greatest, that an argument can be made for them not necessarily being the same thing.

As an example of the argument I could make a good case for Cantona or Giggs being the greatest United players in my time watching the club but at the same time I could maybe say that 06/07 and 07/08 Ronaldo was the best I've seen.
 

RooneyLegend

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Del Piero was better.....
In the 90's maybe, in the 00's, no way. In truth, Totti sustained a higher level for longer. At their absolute best, I.e pre world cup 98 Del Piero vs early 00's Totti i' d have the former although I'd understand someone saying otherwise.
 

giorno

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You're saying that Totti had more charisma and is more of a legend than Buffon, Del Piero, Maldini or Pirlo ? No way
More of a legend than Del Piero and Pirlo for sure. Maldini and Buffon no, although playing his whole career at Roma and the positions play into it as well. Maldini is a bigger legend than Henry or Rivaldo as well for that matter

That doesn't make sense.
I know, it's just that he won a world cup and i didn't want to call him the second best italian player since Rivera :D
 

giorno

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In the 90's maybe, in the 00's, no way. In truth, Totti sustained a higher level for longer. At their absolute best, I.e pre world cup 98 Del Piero vs early 00's Totti i' d have the former although I'd understand someone saying otherwise.
Nope, spot on. Del Piero was ruined by Agricola, gained like 10 Kg of muscles over one summer and suddenly went from an incredible flair player to a bull who just overpowered defenders(that was his best season btw. For most of it the Ronaldo vs Del Piero debate didn't seem absurd, he was that good). And then of course the result of that was a devastating knee injury, followed by years spent essentially having to relearn how to be a flair player...
 

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Nope, spot on. Del Piero was ruined by Agricola, gained like 10 Kg of muscles over one summer and suddenly went from an incredible flair player to a bull who just overpowered defenders(that was his best season btw. For most of it the Ronaldo vs Del Piero debate didn't seem absurd, he was that good). And then of course the result of that was a devastating knee injury, followed by years spent essentially having to relearn how to be a flair player...
It is crazy how knee injuries have robbed players like Ronaldo and Del Piero of even greater careers.
 

giorno

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It is crazy how knee injuries have robbed players like Ronaldo and Del Piero of even greater careers.
In Del Piero's case i will die blaming it on Juve's doctor, the esteemed Riccardo Agricola(look him up on google if you've never heard of him...)

Ronaldo...his muscles were just superhuman. His bones and tendons, alas, were not
 

kouroux

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In Del Piero's case i will die blaming it on Juve's doctor, the esteemed Riccardo Agricola(look him up on google if you've never heard of him...)

Ronaldo...his muscles were just superhuman. His bones and tendons, alas, were not
I managed to watch a whole documentary on that man a while ago. I definitely need a refresher though
 

Aloysius's Back 3

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Totti was better than Roma. A bit like shearer being better than Newcastle. Both legends & staying at their club adds something more to it because you wonder what they would have done for a club with more players of their ilk.

Might have done worse but part of the legend is the actual wonder that came with their loyalty.

How would shearer have done at United in the 90's?
 

The holy trinity 68

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He's the greatest italian player since at least Gigi Riva/Gianni Rivera, and the second best of the last 30 years after Baggio
Maldini, Baresi, Buffon, Pirlo, Del Piero, all greater/better. Then argument can be made for Cannavaro, Nesta, Ancelotti, Costa Curta, Inzaghi.

Totti isn’t even the best/greatest Italian player of this decade, never mind 30 years.
 

The holy trinity 68

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None of them was as good as Totti. Role matters in this case.
:lol: Of course they were are you crazy.

Buffon is in the top 10 GK of all time.

Baresi and Maldini possibly top 5 defenders of all time, top 10 definitely.

Ridiculous comment to think that Totti was greater/better than them 3. Not a chance.
 

giorno

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:lol: Of course they were are you crazy.

Buffon is in the top 10 GK of all time.

Baresi and Maldini possibly top 5 defenders of all time, top 10 definitely.

Ridiculous comment to think that Totti was greater/better than them 3. Not a chance.
Of course he was. It's ridiculous to think that defenders, no matter how good they were, could be better than one if the very best #10 in italian football history.

Beckenbauer is an exception, and even then he was a midfielder for a good chunk of his career
 

Matt007a

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Hard to compare players of different positions. Totti was obviously a better technical footballer than Baresi, but he's is not in the top 10 of all time in his position, while Baresi is in the top 5. Depends entirely on how you view different roles and attributes.

Totti is probably the best attacking player Italy have had since Baggio and certainly one of the best in Europe over the last 20 years.