Francesco Totti

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Of course he was. It's ridiculous to think that defenders, no matter how good they were, could be better than one if the very best #10 in italian football history.

Beckenbauer is an exception, and even then he was a midfielder for a good chunk of his career
Depends how you value players. If it's importance to result, then it's hard to argue against Baresi who has to be one of the most influential players in the history of Serie A.
 

Sarni

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It also has to be said that Totti was a great player but a difficult personality.

@Ramshock

Ah feck,any mod that can fix the thread title?
I just spat out my coffee on a keyboard of my company computer with the boss of my boss sitting next to me today, thanks. :lol:
 

cmfnmb

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Well totti is the greatest number 10 in italian football history and one of the best number 10s of all time.
Amazing player, great memories.
 

BlackShark_80

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Well totti is the greatest number 10 in italian football history and one of the best number 10s of all time.
Amazing player, great memories.
nope, he was great player but definitely not the greatest.
 

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He's the greatest italian player since at least Gigi Riva/Gianni Rivera, and the second best of the last 30 years after Baggio
Wouldn't put him up there with Baggio but a fantastic player who very often is underrated by younger football fans.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Of course he was. It's ridiculous to think that defenders, no matter how good they were, could be better than one if the very best #10 in italian football history.

Beckenbauer is an exception, and even then he was a midfielder for a good chunk of his career

Baresi and Maldini are up there with the greatest defenders of all time. Totti wouldn't even make the top 50 list of best/greatest players ever. Them 2 are in the category of some of the greatest defenders of all time, which makes them both better than Totti. A very good #10 is not better than a great defender. It's like saying Juan Mata is a greater/better player than Rio Ferdinand was.
 

RooneyLegend

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He won a Scudetto, 2 Coppa Italias and Roma was consistently playing in Europe. So it is not like he was playing in obscurity.
I guess given the circumstances of club football these days it's odd for big players to not be at a select few club's but in those days or was pretty common. Despite how big time certain players were they weren't really winning trophies. Totti, Zola, Shearer, Ginola, Batistuta were all magnificent players despite not having buldging trophy cabinets.
 

altodevil

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Baresi and Maldini are up there with the greatest defenders of all time. Totti wouldn't even make the top 50 list of best/greatest players ever. Them 2 are in the category of some of the greatest defenders of all time, which makes them both better than Totti. A very good #10 is not better than a great defender. It's like saying Juan Mata is a greater/better player than Rio Ferdinand was.
I agree with your point but that's not really an apt comparison.
 

RooneyLegend

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Baresi and Maldini are up there with the greatest defenders of all time. Totti wouldn't even make the top 50 list of best/greatest players ever. Them 2 are in the category of some of the greatest defenders of all time, which makes them both better than Totti. A very good #10 is not better than a great defender. It's like saying Juan Mata is a greater/better player than Rio Ferdinand was.
Totti was a huge player, way more than a Mata.
 

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Hard to compare players of different positions. Totti was obviously a better technical footballer than Baresi, but he's is not in the top 10 of all time in his position, while Baresi is in the top 5. Depends entirely on how you view different roles and attributes.

Totti is probably the best attacking player Italy have had since Baggio and certainly one of the best in Europe over the last 20 years.
Interesting point. Who would be the top 10 attacking midfielders of all time? I've only got a vague idea of my own list and I reckon Totti would be in there.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Interesting point. Who would be the top 10 attacking midfielders of all time? I've only got a vague idea of my own list and I reckon Totti would be in there.
Zidane, Maradona, Platini, Ronaldinho, Iniesta, Laudrup, Charlton, Baggio, Zico, Cruyff.

No order, but them are possibly the 10 best. Give or take 1 or 2 of them.

EDIT: Messi can be put in there but it depends on whether he is seen as the traditional number 10 or not. He is/was more of a striker than the traditional number 10.
 
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harms

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Maldini, Baresi, Buffon, Pirlo, Del Piero, all greater/better. Then argument can be made for Cannavaro, Nesta, Ancelotti, Costa Curta, Inzaghi.
I don't agree with the original point and would have at least Baresi and Maldini ahead of him, but the last 3 in that list are too much. I mean, Inzaghi?!
 

harms

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Of course he was. It's ridiculous to think that defenders, no matter how good they were, could be better than one if the very best #10 in italian football history.
Totti had smoother skills, but to think that an attacker is by definition a better player (by "better" I mean more influential in getting the needed result for the team) than a defender is just wrong. Baresi's AC Milan won the league in 1993/94 by scoring 36 goals in 34 games. Do you think that Massaro (he scored like 1/3 of them) was a better than Baresi? That season at least.
 

The holy trinity 68

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I don't agree with the original point and would have at least Baresi and Maldini ahead of him, but the last 3 in that list are too much. I mean, Inzaghi?!
To be fair I probably went a bit too far, but Inzaghi, Costacurta, Ancellotti all won more than Totti. Totti may have been better but trophies won are a major factor in the greatness of a player.
 

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Zidane, Maradona, Platini, Ronaldinho, Iniesta, Laudrup, Charlton, Baggio, Zico, Cruyff.

No order, but them are possibly the 10 best. Give or take 1 or 2 of them.

EDIT: Messi can be put in there but it depends on whether he is seen as the traditional number 10 or not. He is/was more of a striker than the traditional number 10.
Quite the list and hard to argue with most of them. Although I'm too young to have seen much of some of them. I always thought Platini was a striker for some reason.

I've still not had time to sit and think through a proper list of the ones I've seen a lot of, but I imagine along with some of yours I'd have Totti, Rivaldo and Bergkamp on there somewhere.
 

harms

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Quite the list and hard to argue with most of them. Although I'm too young to have seen much of some of them. I always thought Platini was a striker for some reason.
Probably because he was Serie A's top scorer for 3 seasons and still holds the record of the most goal scored in the single Euros (9). But that's what makes him special — he was basically a Pirlo with Inzaghi's goalscoring.

 

RooneyLegend

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Zidane, Maradona, Platini, Ronaldinho, Iniesta, Laudrup, Charlton, Baggio, Zico, Cruyff.

No order, but them are possibly the 10 best. Give or take 1 or 2 of them.

EDIT: Messi can be put in there but it depends on whether he is seen as the traditional number 10 or not. He is/was more of a striker than the traditional number 10.
Add Messi, DiStefano, Best and remove Zidane
, Iniesta, Charlton. Not cause of level of play, more to do with type of player.
 

Bole Top

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Don't know which I dislike more, Roma or Totti.
Totti of course. I've seen him doing everything D. Costa gets slaughtered for, including kicking players from behind, stamping and spitting on them + that career record of about 20 red cards as forward (!), yet he gets aways with that among majority of fans. can't believe people can actually like him. we had thread about him couple of years ago and I remember someone called him "gentleman on the field". just no.

great player, but easily my most hated player from non english clubs along with Neymar.
 

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Totti of course. I've seen him doing everything D. Costa gets slaughtered for, including kicking players from behind, stamping and spitting on them + that career record of about 20 red cards as forward (!), yet he gets aways with that among majority of fans. can't believe people can actually like him. we had thread about him couple of years ago and I remember someone called him "gentleman on the field". just no
This. Just because he stayed in one club for 2 decades does not mean he's adorable player. Also think he used to be tad overrated.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Add Messi, DiStefano, Best and remove Zidane
, Iniesta, Charlton. Not cause of level of play, more to do with type of player.
Messi isnt a traditional number 10 and has been more of a striker for his career not an attacking midfielder which is basicaly what a number 10 is classed as.

Di Stefano was a striker not an AM.

Best was a winger/inside forward, again not an AM.
 

RooneyLegend

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Messi isnt a traditional number 10 and has been more of a striker for his career not an attacking midfielder which is basicaly what a number 10 is classed as.

Di Stefano was a striker not an AM.

Best was a winger/inside forward, again not an AM.
For a longtime Messi has played in the 'hole' which is what the position entails. Hence he was a false 9, basically an attacking mid being played without anyone directly ahead of him. The only time he didn't really play there was when he used to play on the right and that ended a long time ago.

Di Stefano pretty much the same.

Best played whererever he wanted. You can't mention Dinho then say no to Best. Mention Zico but refuse Messi. Those players were very similar positionally.
 

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Totti of course. I've seen him doing everything D. Costa gets slaughtered for, including kicking players from behind, stamping and spitting on them + that career record of about 20 red cards as forward (!), yet he gets aways with that among majority of fans. can't believe people can actually like him. we had thread about him couple of years ago and I remember someone called him "gentleman on the field". just no.

great player, but easily my most hated player from non english clubs along with Neymar.

My favourite Totti moment. Not just he looked silly with a missed panenka, but he also pushed goalkeeper afterwards. Fantastic player, but couldn't stand his personality.
 

The holy trinity 68

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For a longtime Messi has played in the 'hole' which is what the position entails. Hence he was a false 9, basically an attacking mid being played without anyone directly ahead of him. The only time he didn't really play there was when he used to play on the right and that ended a long time ago.

Di Stefano pretty much the same.

Best played whererever he wanted. You can't mention Dinho then say no to Best. Mention Zico but refuse Messi. Those players were very similar positionally.
Well it is all down to interpretation. Players that you believe are number 10's are not necessarily the same views for other people.
 

evil_geko

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Well if he was underrated before, he is definitely being overrated in this thread.
 

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This pass compilation :drool:
In the early 00s he was easily one of the best Italian players if not the best!
 

giorno

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Totti had smoother skills, but to think that an attacker is by definition a better player (by "better" I mean more influential in getting the needed result for the team) than a defender is just wrong. Baresi's AC Milan won the league in 1993/94 by scoring 36 goals in 34 games. Do you think that Massaro (he scored like 1/3 of them) was a better than Baresi? That season at least.
An attacking player is by definition more important than a defender. Between a defender and a forward of similar level of ability, the forward is always going to have the greater individual impact. Which makes him the better player

And Totti was better than any defender in football history you care to name, aside from Beckenbauer.

As for that 93/94 milan, well, the fans called Massaro "Provvidenza"(providence) for a reason. They played barcelona in the CL final without Baresi and Costacurta, with Galli and Maldini at CB and a young Panucci at RB, against Romario and Stoichkov. Romario and Stoichkov touched the ball a combined 5 times in that game, barcelona were barely able to string two passes together and Milan destroyed them 4-0. Massaro scored the first two goals

And no, Massaro wasn't better than Baresi. But that season he was more valuable to milan than Baresi
 

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Totti of course. I've seen him doing everything D. Costa gets slaughtered for, including kicking players from behind, stamping and spitting on them + that career record of about 20 red cards as forward (!), yet he gets aways with that among majority of fans. can't believe people can actually like him. we had thread about him couple of years ago and I remember someone called him "gentleman on the field". just no.

great player, but easily my most hated player from non english clubs along with Neymar.
Another part of my point. Regardless of skill level, the guy's a massive cnut. Yet somehow this is irrelevant, because he never left Rome.
 

harms

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An attacking player is by definition more important than a defender. Between a defender and a forward of similar level of ability, the forward is always going to have the greater individual impact. Which makes him the better player

And Totti was better than any defender in football history you care to name, aside from Beckenbauer.

As for that 93/94 milan, well, the fans called Massaro "Provvidenza"(providence) for a reason. They played barcelona in the CL final without Baresi and Costacurta, with Galli and Maldini at CB and a young Panucci at RB, against Romario and Stoichkov. Romario and Stoichkov touched the ball a combined 5 times in that game, barcelona were barely able to string two passes together and Milan destroyed them 4-0. Massaro scored the first two goals

And no, Massaro wasn't better than Baresi. But that season he was more valuable to milan than Baresi
It’s obvious that we won’t agree — the difference between our opinions is too big, but take 1994 WC final, for example: Romario (a better player than Totti) is completely nullified by Baresi. And it’s not a one-time thing, he handled the likes of him, Batigol etc. regularly, winning the games for Milan and Italy with his immaculate defending.
 

chisnall_red

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My wife is Italian from Rome, a lifelong Roma fan, and I spent the whole season they won the scudetto watching every game. Even went to a few of them. Totti was phenomenal, totally dictated the tempo and dynamic of the games. Was a joy to watch
In Rome he has God status, the fact he kind of lives with locals (Mum in law has her hair done where Tottis Mum does, have coffee in the same cafe that kind of thing). I swear if he ran for president he’d probably get it, although he can’t really string a sentence together
 
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RooneyLegend

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Well it is all down to interpretation. Players that you believe are number 10's are not necessarily the same views for other people.
I understand what you mean but you can't have Iniesta in the same list as Baggio. Different players in every respect of the word. The differences come from a different line of thought with regards to formations and set ups. For me, a 10 is the player who plays predominantly in the 'hole'. Some are more dynamic than others thus tend to move about, even in wide areas while others drift deeper especially when their teams have controlled possession.
 

Jeffthered

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He's the greatest italian player since at least Gigi Riva/Gianni Rivera, and the second best of the last 30 years after Baggio
No he was not. Speak to people from Rome, and they go weak at the knees. Yes, a top player, but it's the single club thing more than anything else. Similar to Raul at Madrid and much respect to the both of them, super players... But you telling me Totti was better than, say... Zidane? Rivaldo? And yes. Was he better than Scholes, Gerrard... No way.

Re Italy.. Paulo Maldini and Franco Baresi were far more a player than Totti ever could wish to be.

And I would argue that Del Piero was marginally better. Christian Vieri too.