Franck Kessie, anyone?

RedSky

Shepherd’s Delight
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
69,512
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
He'd piss off our fans. He gets dispossessed a lot and has a very poor first touch. Good defensive game but we need someone who's good on the ball and can receive the ball and pass it on.
 

Red&Black

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 15, 2019
Messages
58
Supports
Milan
He'd piss off our fans. He gets dispossessed a lot and has a very poor first touch. Good defensive game but we need someone who's good on the ball and can receive the ball and pass it on.
i can agree on the part about not being a fantastic passer (though that's not really his game)... but being dispossessed a lot? he bullies the ball off everyone, and no one can get close to the ball when he's on it.

he developed massively last season... day and night...

he was potential in the past, he's fully arrived and only 24 still
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
10,374
Supports
Varane - Maguire
His ball retention is actually very good. He's pretty much Fred but physically so much stronger, better shooter than Fred, and very good ball retention when under pressure which Fred's weakness. However, I can't see him leaving this summer, he is Milan's best player and there is no way they would let him go after losing two of their main players this summer for free.
 

RedSky

Shepherd’s Delight
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
69,512
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
i can agree on the part about not being a fantastic passer (though that's not really his game)... but being dispossessed a lot? he bullies the ball off everyone, and no one can get close to the ball when he's on it.

he developed massively last season... day and night...

he was potential in the past, he's fully arrived and only 24 still
He does have potential, but he has faults in his game, can't deny he's very good defensively and if you were setting up to have a destroyer in your team he'd be someone near the top of the list in Europe. He does also win the ball back far better than someone like Fred. For a midfielder he does get dispossessed a lot (below from whoscored):

Fred is bloody hopeless and continually gets targetted in most games by the opposition. He is dispossessed on average every 76mins
Kessie gets dispossessed on average every 82mins
Jorginho every 136mins
Kante every 145mins
Neves every 163mins
Leon Goretzka every 246mins
Toni Kroos every 254mins
 

sp_107

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,334
Location
Yorkshire
He does have potential, but he has faults in his game, can't deny he's very good defensively and if you were setting up to have a destroyer in your team he'd be someone near the top of the list in Europe. He does also win the ball back far better than someone like Fred. For a midfielder he does get dispossessed a lot (below from whoscored):

Fred is bloody hopeless and continually gets targetted in most games by the opposition. He is dispossessed on average every 76mins
Kessie gets dispossessed on average every 82mins
Jorginho every 136mins
Kante every 145mins
Neves every 163mins
Leon Goretzka every 246mins
Toni Kroos every 254mins
Wow, some times i really get good info on redcafe from posts like this. Looks like Goretzka can really improve our midfield
 

ThomasEmil

Invisible Herrera Watcher
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
5,362
Location
Denmark
He does have potential, but he has faults in his game, can't deny he's very good defensively and if you were setting up to have a destroyer in your team he'd be someone near the top of the list in Europe. He does also win the ball back far better than someone like Fred. For a midfielder he does get dispossessed a lot (below from whoscored):

Fred is bloody hopeless and continually gets targetted in most games by the opposition. He is dispossessed on average every 76mins
Kessie gets dispossessed on average every 82mins
Jorginho every 136mins
Kante every 145mins
Neves every 163mins
Leon Goretzka every 246mins
Toni Kroos every 254mins
I bet he also had worse options for passing and protection, than Goretzka at Bayern og Kanye/Jorginho.
Numbers don’t lie. They just don’t really say much taken out of context
 

RedSky

Shepherd’s Delight
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
69,512
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
I bet he also had worse options for passing and protection, than Goretzka at Bayern og Kanye/Jorginho.
Numbers don’t lie. They just don’t really say much taken out of context
Yet there are 241 DM/CM's from Ligue 1, Premier League, Serie A, La Liga, Eredivisie and Liga NOS with better dispossessed stats than Kessie. Can't really use that as a valid excuse in all honesty. I'd agree if he was in say the top 40. But not when you're that far down. At that point it should become clear that it's a weakness.

That's ok, the vast majority of players will have weaknesses. But given we've already got Fred who gives the ball away numerous times, the last thing we want to do is replace him with the same type of player. At least that's my opinion anyway. I'd rather have a midfielder that's strong on the ball. Even if it results in them being worse defensively, like all things football, it's a balance.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
10,374
Supports
Varane - Maguire

What a guy. To even say it in public for the fans. I think this basically ends this thread.
 

KikiDaKats

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
1,364
Location
Salford
Supports
His Liverpool supporting wife
He does have potential, but he has faults in his game, can't deny he's very good defensively and if you were setting up to have a destroyer in your team he'd be someone near the top of the list in Europe. He does also win the ball back far better than someone like Fred. For a midfielder he does get dispossessed a lot (below from whoscored):

Fred is bloody hopeless and continually gets targetted in most games by the opposition. He is dispossessed on average every 76mins
Kessie gets dispossessed on average every 82mins
Jorginho every 136mins
Kante every 145mins
Neves every 163mins
Leon Goretzka every 246mins
Toni Kroos every 254mins
Context. Team mates. Role. Etc.
Football variables are not being presented in these stats. He mostly plays B2B for Milan and also their main creative hub from central midfield.
To give these numbers more with, it should come in tandem with with number of touches as well as positions on the pitch.
 

RedSky

Shepherd’s Delight
Scout
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
69,512
Location
Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
Context. Team mates. Role. Etc.
Football variables are not being presented in these stats. He mostly plays B2B for Milan and also their main creative hub from central midfield.
To give these numbers more with, it should come in tandem with with number of touches as well as positions on the pitch.
If a player at a high tier club falls near bottom in a list composed of 7 leagues worth of midfielders then clearly that player has a weakness in his game. It's not like Kessie is playing for FC Utrecht or Rio Ave. He's playing for AC Milan, a high tier club.

Context is that he's simply not good enough on the ball and is far too often caught on it. We already have that with Pogba and Fred, we don't need Kessie adding to the problem.
 

justsomebloke

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
2,661
i can agree on the part about not being a fantastic passer (though that's not really his game)... but being dispossessed a lot? he bullies the ball off everyone, and no one can get close to the ball when he's on it.

he developed massively last season... day and night...

he was potential in the past, he's fully arrived and only 24 still
I can't pretend to know him well, but statistically at least, his passing looks fairly good to me. A lot of his strongest areas are connected with what happens in the attacking third, which was also the sort of player he looked like against United in the EL games, especially at Trafford. Good dribbler and ball carrier. He does get disposessed a good deal, but his stats aren't dramatically bad in that regard (48 percentile). Good pass completion, lots of through balls. He does not look like a primarily defensive midfielder to me (though he seems to be a really good tackler and blocker, almost never gets dribbled past). More like a physically imposing no 8 with the capacity to contribute in both ends.
 

KikiDaKats

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Messages
1,364
Location
Salford
Supports
His Liverpool supporting wife
If a player at a high tier club falls near bottom in a list composed of 7 leagues worth of midfielders then clearly that player has a weakness in his game. It's not like Kessie is playing for FC Utrecht or Rio Ave. He's playing for AC Milan, a high tier club.

Context is that he's simply not good enough on the ball and is far too often caught on it. We already have that with Pogba and Fred, we don't need Kessie adding to the problem.
Thats the conclusion you've derived from those stats. Context I believe means something quite different.
 

redrobed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Messages
624
If he’s considering Spurs then he is not good enough for us and lacks the ambition required to make it at Utd.
 

Green Arrow

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
210
Location
Formally of Chorlton
We should be scouting him already (Looked good against us in the Europa League), need to lay the ground work for next summer if we can get him with Matic probably getting even less game time or retiring.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
9,766
Location
DownUnder
Thought he was extending his contract? Even promised the AC fans over the summer he'd sign it, if we goes back on that they'll hate him
His agent isn’t impressed with their offer. Fans expecting him to sign on for less than he’s worth are a tad deluded and probably think kissing the badge is a vow made in blood. Lads a United fan and would be a good edition to the squad. I think he’d adapt very quickly to the premier league. Certainly isn’t the holding midfielder id say we need but he’d make a decent replacement for Pogba if he doesn’t extend.
 

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,136
Location
Copenhagen
We might be in a situation where we lose three midfieldes next year; Donny, Pogba and Matic. It would leave us with McTominay, Fred, Garner and hopefully Mejbri. To very unproven.

Getting a decent 25 year old player like him for «free» could be a good move. He is a big Man Utd-fan too if reports are accurate.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
10,103
Location
London
Definitely a good box-to-box CM to offer some much needed competition to Fred. Especially if Pogba goes next summer (although we should target him regardless in January for a Bosman deal).

We'd still need a specialist CDM with a good defensive nous and decent passing skills though. Be it a Neves, Palhinha, Tchouameni or whoever else.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

Full Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
1,775
Location
Kazakhstan
FM legend. Scores a ton of goals from DM as Segundo Volante on attack. Should be paired with DLP like Locatelli. (In FM of course). That’s all I know about Frank Kessie.
 

Abraxas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
1,574
I'm a lot more enthused by this guy than somebody like Neves who just seems thoroughly unexciting to me.

Kessie was really good in the first leg at Old Trafford. Seems to have the strength and dynamism to compete in the PL and he showed good quality on the ball too, he was influential and certainly raised a few eyebrows.

It's true he probably isn't somebody that will simply sit (although maybe he could adapt to such a limited role, but I'm not sure at what cost) but we may need more than one midfielder and that's where I think this guy suits the kind of all-round ability Ole likes.

If you look at his statistical profile it suggests he is somebody that will get on the ball and is a reliable short passer and probably isn't going to make the mistakes Fred does leading to a more consistent buildup. At the very least he is a stronger player to shield the ball and take it in tough situations, giving confidence to our defence when playing out. But he doesn't have Fred's pressing and energy across the grass, perhaps. I don't see any reason he couldn't dovetail with any of our options and that's a big advantage.
 
Last edited:

Okey

Full Member
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
1,911
He does have potential, but he has faults in his game, can't deny he's very good defensively and if you were setting up to have a destroyer in your team he'd be someone near the top of the list in Europe. He does also win the ball back far better than someone like Fred. For a midfielder he does get dispossessed a lot (below from whoscored):

Fred is bloody hopeless and continually gets targetted in most games by the opposition. He is dispossessed on average every 76mins
Kessie gets dispossessed on average every 82mins
Jorginho every 136mins
Kante every 145mins
Neves every 163mins
Leon Goretzka every 246mins
Toni Kroos every 254mins
Very insightful stats! Any chance of same stats for Rice, Ndidi and Bissouma? Just to get a better Premier league-based comparison. I'm assuming the pace of the English game makes a difference compared to Germany or Spain.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
He’s a definite upgrade on the vast majority of midfield.

He’s really tidy with the ball at his feet as well, really composed.

If he’s free we should be interested.
 

OleGunnar20

Full Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
849
Namechecked us as a dream club once I'm sure. Too sensible a move for us to make surely.
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
7,760
Location
London
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
He'd easily replace Scott for me.
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
13,364
Location
England
He’s probably already agreed a move elsewhere. He went from saying he loves Milan and will sign a contract to now being available on a free. He’s been tapped up for sure which I know is the norm.