Frank Lampard | Chelsea manager

sammsky1

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Without Bruno there is not a hope in hell we would have made top 4, which was the minimum expectation at the start of the season. Perhaps we should see how he improves the team from here, before calling him our Messiah don't you think?
Top 4 was not our minimum expectation. Completely false narrative.

Not even our most ardent fans and certainly no pundits predicted we’d be top 4, so I don’t understand who was saying it was a minimum requirement.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Like I've said earlier as well, you need a defender more than Havertz. I'm assuming you're going to sign a GK regardless, and assuming you aren't having a bottomless pit of cash and can prioritize just one position it has to be defence. Hell, I'd probably replace each of the 4 defenders before I buy Havertz.

You scored around 70 league goals this season, and you had Pulisic missing in the 1st half. With him available and additions of Werner and Ziyech combined with your tactics, you're already going to score 80 odd goals provided your signings are a success - which in most cases is good enough to compete for the title. However, if your defence stays as is and the GK gets exposed this often, you'll still concede 40 odd goals irrespective who the GK is, which pull you down and you'd have to settle for another top 4 fight.
Well, for me my view is that yes, signing a defender is more likely to improve us next season than Havertz is. However, I can't think of a single defender who we could sign this summer who's as likely to improve us for the next three seasons overall as Havertz is.

It seems the club is viewing Havertz as a unique COVID-driven opportunity that is too good to pass up. I'm broadly in agreement - give me a swashbuckling side for next year that wins 3-2 or loses 2-3 more often than not and we can sort out the defense next summer.
 

El-Manos

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Top 4 was not our minimum expectation. Completely false narrative.

Not even our most ardent fans and certainly no pundits predicted we’d be top 4, so I don’t understand who was saying it was a minimum requirement.
After the money we spent, are you serious? So what was the minimum expectation then? To avoid relegation? We're Manchester United not West ham.
 

sammsky1

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After the money we spent, are you serious? So what was the minimum expectation then? To avoid relegation? We're manchester United not West ham.
Who was setting this ‘minimum requirement’?? Show me some evidence.

All this ‘we are Manchester United’ hardman chat is all bollocks. ole would have kept his job even if he missed, so long as progress could be demonstrated in other ways.
 

El-Manos

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Who was setting this ‘minimum requirement’?? Show me some evidence.

All this ‘we are Manchester United’ hardman chat is all bollocks. ole would have kept his job even if he missed, so long as progress could be demonstrated in other ways.
What progress did we show before February? We were breaking records alright... but not the good kind. Your expectations for this football club have dropped off a cliff it seems. That's how Arsenal & Liverpool fans have been chatting for the last decade.
 

sammsky1

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What progress did we show before February? We were breaking records alright... but not the good kind. Your expectations for this football club have dropped off a cliff it seems. That's how Arsenal & Liverpool fans have been chatting for the last decade.
:yawn:
 

Inigo Montoya

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Without Bruno there is not a hope in hell we would have made top 4, which was the minimum expectation at the start of the season. Perhaps we should see how Ole improves the team from here, before calling him our Messiah don't you think?
He's just a naughty boy!
 

Pretzels81

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The guy is a mixed bag for real. +50 goals conceded in the league, +10 defeats yet 4th. Reaches a FA Cup final yet he loses it.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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After the money we spent, are you serious? So what was the minimum expectation then? To avoid relegation? We're Manchester United not West ham.
Did you read the top 6 predictions thread. Barely anyone at all including Utd fans had us anywhere near top four because of the mess Mourinho left us in. Even fewer people predicted 3rd. We have massively exceeded expectations and Ole isn’t getting enough credit for that. Unfortunately, “fans” like you are trying to change the narrative when any reasonable minded person would appreciate the context of this season.
 

El-Manos

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Did you read the top 6 predictions thread. Barely anyone at all including Utd fans had us anywhere near top four because of the mess Mourinho left us in. Even fewer people predicted 3rd. We have massively exceeded expectations and Ole isn’t getting enough credit for that. Unfortunately, “fans” like you are trying to change the narrative when any reasonable minded person would appreciate the context of this season.
Get off your high horse "top fan". If you're resorting to insults to get your point across, i'm afraid i'm out.
 

TheReligion

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What progress did we show before February? We were breaking records alright... but not the good kind. Your expectations for this football club have dropped off a cliff it seems. That's how Arsenal & Liverpool fans have been chatting for the last decade.
Move on. Take it to the correct thread.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I'm not trying to be precious or anything and I didn't follow the Championship closely last season, so correct me if I'm wrong on the sequence of events:

1. Leeds send employees to illicitly film Derby training leading up to an important match (against the rules)
2. This comes out and Lampard justifiably complains about it and Leeds are punished
3. The collection of sensitive ingrates making up the Leeds fanbase write a song trying to shift the blame
4. Said ingrates sing this song during the first leg of a Championship semi that they win
5. They continue to sing this song during the second leg, but are mysteriously quiet as Derby come back to win the tie
6. Lampard and his squad sing this song to mock Leeds (I'd argue that this action is worth a knightship, but perhaps I'm biased)

Yet now this is used as a stick to beat Lampard with? I genuinely am struggling to understand, especially from a Man United perspective.
 

Dancfc

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I'm not trying to be precious or anything and I didn't follow the Championship closely last season, so correct me if I'm wrong on the sequence of events:

1. Leeds send employees to illicitly film Derby training leading up to an important match (against the rules)
2. This comes out and Lampard justifiably complains about it and Leeds are punished
3. The collection of sensitive ingrates making up the Leeds fanbase write a song trying to shift the blame
4. Said ingrates sing this song during the first leg of a Championship semi that they win
5. They continue to sing this song during the second leg, but are mysteriously quiet as Derby come back to win the tie
6. Lampard and his squad sing this song to mock Leeds (I'd argue that this action is worth a knightship, but perhaps I'm biased)

Yet now this is used as a stick to beat Lampard with? I genuinely am struggling to understand, especially from a Man United perspective.
If we're getting United and Leeds to team up we must be doing something right :lol:

More on topic, not good enough today we should have killed it before the first drinks break (Arsenal couldn't cope with us) but Arteta made subtle changes which Lampard was slow to react to, should have reverted to a back four

Shame as I really wanted Frank and the young guys to get that first trophy to really get the monkey off our backs but not to be.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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If we're getting United and Leeds to team up we must be doing something right :lol:

More on topic, not good enough today we should have killed it before the first drinks break (Arsenal couldn't cope with us) but Arteta made subtle changes which Lampard was slow to react to, should have reverted to a back four

Shame as I really wanted Frank and the young guys to get that first trophy to really get the monkey off our backs but not to be.
Azpi going out really killed us. The one player who allowed our system to be flexible along the right side. Not that he was brilliant before that, mind.

Thought AMN was in many ways the key player - kept us stretched when Arsenal had the ball and moved inside intelligently to provide the extra body allowing them to overwhelm our midfield at times as well.
 

FootballHQ

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He did well getting them top 4, not sure anyone can dispute that given they lost Hazard and couldn't sign anyone. In August I thought they might've had an Arsenal/Spurs type season.

Expectations will only rise now given Chelsea's ruthless demand for trophies in the Abramovich era. More so when they've already got Werner and Ziyech in the bag and seemingly Havertz will come aswell. Just being top 4 won't be enough for Lampard next season and frustrating for him he couldn't get a trophy already otherwise he might become one of these nearly managers.
 

Bastian

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I think he's had a good season and he's navigated the transfer ban really well. Managed to get those young players off to good starts, but there have of course been dips scattered across the season. Thought they showed in the first match (were we beat them 4-0) that they wanted to play progressive style of football, and in fairness, they were unlucky against us. Has quite a few interesting young players and they are going hell for leather in the market. If they buy Havertz and then go and fix that defense (including GK) he'll have much more pressure on his shoulders, and rightly so.

Been more impressed with Arteta, I think he's got a much worse team to work with, and of course, no money. He comes across really well and has changed them from the disaster they were before.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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I'm not trying to be precious or anything and I didn't follow the Championship closely last season, so correct me if I'm wrong on the sequence of events:

1. Leeds send employees to illicitly film Derby training leading up to an important match (against the rules)
2. This comes out and Lampard justifiably complains about it and Leeds are punished
3. The collection of sensitive ingrates making up the Leeds fanbase write a song trying to shift the blame
4. Said ingrates sing this song during the first leg of a Championship semi that they win
5. They continue to sing this song during the second leg, but are mysteriously quiet as Derby come back to win the tie
6. Lampard and his squad sing this song to mock Leeds (I'd argue that this action is worth a knightship, but perhaps I'm biased)

Yet now this is used as a stick to beat Lampard with? I genuinely am struggling to understand, especially from a Man United perspective.
I thought Lampard was completely justified with all the Leeds stuff.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I thought Lampard was completely justified with all the Leeds stuff.
Yeah I don't think Lampard has done himself too many favours amongst the general public with his recent "feud" with Klopp, but I just find this whole Leeds thing to be completely bizarre.

Surely turnabout is fair play, no? Especially when it's a song written to victim blame and deflect attention away from the scummy & typical behaviour of Leeds.
 

E-mal

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Very good first season at Chelsea from Lampard. So much to like about the way he goes about his job, It makes it hard for me to dislike Chelsea, especially the kind of team he is trying to create.

I think Lampard and OGS are in very similar circumstances and if both can do well next season, they will become the next big rivals after Pep and Klopp over the next few years. Will be a race to see who can win the PL first.
They both might not be in charge this time next year, it's a possibility.
 

CM10

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I think the pressure will be ramped up on Lampard big time next season. The transfer ban narrative has been run into the ground this season and now it looks like Abramovich is going balls deep for the first time in years. He isn't a patient man.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Nope, Rudiger was atrocious and Zouma got beat all ends up by Auba. That said, it was a blatant foul by Bellerin on Christensen in the buildup to the second though that type of thing is never given.

My point in this entire thread is that I'd rather spend on a GK than a CB - yes our CBs are mediocre, but they can be shielded by a fit Kante (fingers crossed) whilst literally the worst goalkeeper in the history of the PL can't be. Just to reiterate this point, Kepa finished last among all goalkeepers in the top 5 leagues in save percentage and last among all PL keepers in the history of the stat.
That's your point and I didn't reply to your point. You replied to my original point first. ;)
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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That's your point and I didn't reply to your point. You replied to my original point first. ;)
Looks like I've activated your trap card!

Regardless, fair enough, I've drunk enough scotch at this point that I've forgotten what we initially had a quarrel over! Our defense was poor overall but generally did a good job of limiting shots. It's definitely true that there's a limitation in xG models insofar as game state is concerned (today being an excellent example); exactly what impact that would have in terms of the numbers for this season is anyone's guess right now.

I'd obviously not mind getting in a new CB; my point is that I'm unsure anyone is available that'd be a significant upgrade at a non-extortionate price. I just think that Kepa needs to be replaced immediately and that I'd prefer we replace him (in a market where quality GKs are available for reasonable prices) before we try to bin our CBs (in a market where there isn't significant talent available). That said, if you told me I'd never have to watch Rudiger again in a Chelsea shirt I'd be pretty chuffed.
 

lilcurt

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Can't organise a defence and says the same things. Either he is proud of his boys for winning or they need to look at themselves because they wasn't good enough today.

That moral style of management without adaptive tactics can only last so long.
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Can't organise a defence and says the same things. Either he is proud of his boys for winning or they need to look at themselves because they wasn't good enough today.

That moral style of management without adaptive tactics can only last so long.
I'm pretty sure he said “we weren't good enough to win the game” not they? That is if we are both talking about Lampard’s post game presser.
 

OneUnited24

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He’s got a free ride due to the transfer ban (even though he saw several new players come in to supplement a good squad, signed or from loan) but I don’t think he’s been great.

defensively they look poor and I struggle to think of any player that has drastically improved under him. I’ll put it this way if ole or Arteta bottled a 9 point lead over someone or lost the FA cup they wouldn’t get the leeway he has.

For all the people saying he’s good for the youth academy it will be interesting to see how many get a game next season
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I'm not trying to be precious or anything and I didn't follow the Championship closely last season, so correct me if I'm wrong on the sequence of events:

1. Leeds send employees to illicitly film Derby training leading up to an important match (against the rules)
2. This comes out and Lampard justifiably complains about it and Leeds are punished
3. The collection of sensitive ingrates making up the Leeds fanbase write a song trying to shift the blame
4. Said ingrates sing this song during the first leg of a Championship semi that they win
5. They continue to sing this song during the second leg, but are mysteriously quiet as Derby come back to win the tie
6. Lampard and his squad sing this song to mock Leeds (I'd argue that this action is worth a knightship, but perhaps I'm biased)

Yet now this is used as a stick to beat Lampard with? I genuinely am struggling to understand, especially from a Man United perspective.
And Leeds have now had a laugh at Derby by being promoted while they finished tenth (without Lampard). As for the video being posted now, I think a lot has been made of Lampard v Ole this year by the media, ridiculously in my view, because they're both young managers taking charge of big PL clubs.

There really isn't a contest between the two. But if there was, Ole would have won it, I think is the point being made.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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And Leeds have now had a laugh at Derby by being promoted while they finished tenth (without Lampard). As for the video being posted now, I think a lot has been made of Lampard v Ole this year by the media, ridiculously in my view, because they're both young managers taking charge of big PL clubs.

There really isn't a contest between the two. But if there was, Ole would have won it, I think is the point being made.
Leeds are having a laugh at a team that they cheated against after losing in the promotion semis last year by singing a song about a manger who's no longer there blaming the manager for reporting them cheating?

I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but this is perhaps the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Up there with the Stoke neanderthals booing Ramsey for having the audacity to get his leg broken against them.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Leeds are having a laugh at a team that they cheated against after losing in the promotion semis last year by singing a song about a manger who's no longer there blaming the manager for reporting them cheating?

I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but this is perhaps the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Up there with the Stoke neanderthals booing Ramsey for having the audacity to get his leg broken against them.
There are some comments on the video from Leeds fans along the lines of 'this didn't age well :D' and whatnot. I think they probably feel that when all's said and done they've won this little battle they've had over these two seasons, so anything, including the Frank video, is fair game. I disagree that it's abnormally pathetic when it comes to football banter, it seems pretty much to be the going rate to me.

Personally I'm looking forward to having them back in the league. My old man will be happy and I'd much rather have meaningful ties against old friends than against your Norwiches and Bournemouths, who don't mean so much to us historically. I bet Frank'll certainly be pumped to meet them again next year.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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There are some comments on the video from Leeds fans along the lines of 'this didn't age well :D' and whatnot. I think they probably feel that when all's said and done they've won this little battle they've had over these two seasons, so anything, including the Frank video, is fair game. I disagree that it's abnormally pathetic when it comes to football banter, it seems pretty much to be the going rate to me.

Personally I'm looking forward to having them back in the league. My old man will be happy and I'd much rather have meaningful ties against old friends than against your Norwiches and Bournemouths, who don't mean so much to us historically. I bet Frank'll certainly be pumped to meet them again next year.
Eh, agree to disagree. Feel as though the 2 year rivalry is in their heads. Obviously there's no reasoning with Leeds' fans but this notion that there's a real battle when in actuality it's just Leeds embarrassing themselves - Leeds cheated, Leeds got caught, their fans wrote a song, they lost to Derby whilst they sang their song, and Lampard then sang the song back to them is silly IMO.

I don't mind having them back up as I'd look forward to watching them get relegated again, but defending them in this instance is something I genuinely don't understand.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Eh, agree to disagree. Feel as though the 2 year rivalry is in their heads. Obviously there's no reasoning with Leeds' fans but this notion that there's a real battle when in actuality it's just Leeds embarrassing themselves - Leeds cheated, Leeds got caught, their fans wrote a song, they lost to Derby whilst they sang their song, and Lampard then sang the song back to them is silly IMO.

I don't mind having them back up as I'd look forward to watching them get relegated again, but defending them in this instance is something I genuinely don't understand.
For me it's not about defending Leeds, nor that Leeds v Derby 18/19/20 has been some credible footballing rivalry for the ages, it's just that Leeds are up while Derby are not so obviously some beef (started entirely by the Leeds camp trying to cheat) emerged between the two clubs and for now Leeds have the more potent ammunition to win football bantz as they're champions of that division. Embarrassment about their club's conduct, rightly or wrongly, doesn't come into the equation.

I'm certainly not looking to justify their stance as righteous, just that in the current state of play anything with a happy Derby dressing room filmed in the last 18 months is going to be picked up by the Leeds mob with 'Oooops' comments all over it. It's not big and clever, it just is.

And to tie it in with Frank currently and what's gone on with United and Ole this season, they've been compared in the media because they're both relativity new to their first big jobs in the PL and from the perspective of some United fans it seems like Lampard has had an easier ride than Ole, but now we 'won' third that's one in the eye for Frank and Chelsea. As I said earlier that's all ridiculous to me (I mean if there was a contest between the two obviously Ole won it as the table don't lie :D), actually the real battles we both had and in my view are still having are internal. Neither club at this moment is in a position to preen and talk about who's top dog when neither of us are, we've both got a shitload of work to do and both coaches know that more than anyone.

I'm sure you're all raw after a cup defeat but I wouldn't give any Ole v Lampard stuff houseroom, we've both got big seasons ahead of us and so so much to improve on that dick measuring between us at the moment comes off like two bald blokes fighting over a comb.

Then again... ;)
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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For me it's not about defending Leeds, nor that Leeds v Derby 18/19/20 has been some credible footballing rivalry for the ages, it's just that Leeds are up while Derby are not so obviously some beef (started entirely by the Leeds camp trying to cheat) emerged between the two clubs and for now Leeds have the more potent ammunition to win football bantz as they're champions of that division. Embarrassment about their club's conduct, rightly or wrongly, doesn't come into the equation.

I'm certainly not looking to justify their stance as righteous, just that in the current state of play anything with a happy Derby dressing room filmed in the last 18 months is going to be picked up by the Leeds mob with 'Oooops' comments all over it. It's not big and clever, it just is.

And to tie it in with Frank currently and what's gone on with United and Ole this season, they've been compared in the media because they're both relativity new to their first big jobs in the PL and from the perspective of some United fans it seems like Lampard has had an easier ride than Ole, but now we 'won' third that's one in the eye for Frank and Chelsea. As I said earlier that's all ridiculous to me (I mean if there was a contest between the two obviously Ole won it as the table don't lie :D), actually the real battles we both had and in my view are still having are internal. Neither club at this moment is in a position to preen and talk about who's top dog when neither of us are, we've both got a shitload of work to do and both coaches know that more than anyone.

I'm sure you're all raw after a cup defeat but I wouldn't give any Ole v Lampard stuff houseroom, we've both got big seasons ahead of us and so so much to improve on that dick measuring between us at the moment comes off like two bald blokes fighting over a comb.

Then again... ;)
Totally sensible post. Bit concerned at the extent to which you're even able to put yourself into the head of a Leeds supporter but nobody's perfect!

Agreed re: Frank and Ole. It's a lazy comparison to make and I find it all a bit ridiculous that we've been pitted against each other for much of the season. Going into it I didn't think a win today automatically made Lampard better than Ole nor would I have felt that way should our positions be reversed. I'm certainly annoyed after the result today but I would try to not let that impact my objectivity (that said, Anthony Taylor can feck right off).

Genuinely I hope your front 4 comes together and ours does as well so we can both have a proper go of it in the league and there can be a genuine title race next year. Whilst some tribalism is inevitable surely we can all hope to enjoy good football, no?