Come on now, its not just about this nomination at least not for me. Its just the culmination of everything from this season (media bias for Frank and bias against Ole). Anyway I agree with the post you replied to and its a coin toss between him and Ole.
Frank Lampard | Former Chelsea manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
This.
There not finished so I don’t see why you are so confident. They might not have money for their defence. But a duo of Werner Zyiach and Pulisic is a top 4 attack. If they add Havertz to that I don’t see where they have issues.
I believe they will change their keeper this window which will reduce some of their frailties. Especially if the keeper is composing. We will definitely be neck and neck. As for what excel in with a first eleven they will excel in being a better footballing side.
That's reasonable for sure.
He’s improving his attack. There’s many ways to build a team. Liverpool did that same style and was successful. He can achieve top four by just improving his attack. Unless you have evidence that building a better defence than attack gives better results?
I'm not saying Kepa was great, he's a shambolic GK no doubt and would be shocked if he's not replaced in this window. However it's clear even in matches that he doesn't play that Chelsea are not very good in their defensive shape. I won't cite the matches against Bayern as there have been clear concerns even in matches against worse opposition where runners aren't being tracked and the back line and midfield are too far apart.
Fair enough, I haven't really been tallying up the slights this year so I'll take your word for it. Just feel like it's a silly thing to be up in arms about either way personally.
I agree that we have problems in transition, but much of this is because of our poor finishing necessitating that we push bodies further forward. It's also exacerbated by Kepa's appalling positioning and total reluctance to come off his line.
Again though, I think structurally we are decent enough defensively and I'd rather replace the goalkeeper and get in a proper left back before throwing out all of our CBs, who all range somewhere between mediocre and decent. Problem is, replacing them would cost an absolute fortune, especially in this market, and I'd rather spend the money on getting in a genuine world class talent in Havertz.
Football isn't played on paper, they're going to completely change their attack. That's going to take time to gel and while it does they're going to need to rely on a shite defense. They'll be better long term with these signings but whether Lampard can make it through the inconsistent results that will continue to occur for the next 3/4 months while the new signings settle is a different matter. My prediction is he won't be Manager on the 1st January, he'll be sacked by then.
We're going into the season with a settled first eleven. That gives us a huge advantage imo (same with Liverpool).
I don’t get why the two need to be compared and why people feel such an injustice about it.
Yeah, its a silly thing when its going for you and annoying when its against like most things really.
For me ole and lampard are on par. Both have to improve if they are to manage longterm at their respective clubs. Expectations will increase from both of them. If come next may United are still fighting for 4th position I would want Ole to go and I think many chelsea fans would say the same about Lampard.
Couldn't agree more! There's been a bizarre antagonism developing of late here between our clubs; probably due to the top 4 race but for me the rancor would be better focused elsewhere (i.e. Leeds).I don’t get why the two need to be compared and why people feel such an injustice about it.
Fair enough. It's easy enough for me to say I'd not give a toss from my position given the nomination and I don't mean to be a dickhead about it (certainly hope that I haven't come across as rubbing it in your faces or anything; that was never my intent).
I think your basing this on hope rather than any actually logical reasoning. I mean for example. If we signed a RW; CDM, CB and. New Goal keeper for instance. Which improved those players they were replacing... I doubt you would be saying it’s not going to work because we will have too many players that need to gel.
Agreed.
Ole has trophies under his belt as a manager's with a few years of experience, Lampard has none.
Lampard managed to finish below Ole in the league from a commanding position, Lampard has a clear run at Chelsea, Ole does not at United.
I think that’s always been the plain and simple. I think maybe the injustice comes from one being talked about highly whilst the other doesn’t get as much accolades, whilst Ole is statically better. But they both have a lot to prove to keep their jobs. If both clubs are serious about being the best in England again.
Sorry, are you trying to suggest that trophies at Molde are predictive of success at one of the top clubs in the world? Because if so, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh.
But those players aren't the entire forward line are they? If we signed a totally new back four then clearly it would take time for the players to gel and settle. It took us 4 months for our defense to finally click and get regular clean sheets and that was with only two changes.
Players generally take 12-18 months to settle at new clubs. We lucked out massively with Bruno coming in and immediately sparking, that's very rare. This isn't FIFA where you buy a bunch of players and they transfer their club form over, these players are coming from different leagues, learning a new language, settling in a new city, moving their families etc. It's a massive deal, which is destructive for their work and home life.
I think your issue is in assuming we're signing a totally new back 4. At the very most we're going for a GK, LB, and one CB.
You seem to be missing my entire point...
HAH whoosh, that's gone right over my head! Good call! My apologies.
I think it's totally valid and correct to bring up whether an attacking unit will gel. Little point in speculating the outcome now but it's definitely something to keep an eye on.
It’s just a small point, but if you give him credit for Mount and Abraham coming in and doing well, could he not also be blamed for Kepa doing far worse than before his arrival?
Maybe something to do with the training setup or defensive organisation has failed the defence/GK.
Cant really give him credit for one and yet have him completely blameless for the other.
Eh, for me the goalkeeper position is almost unique insofar as the actions are pretty straightforward and uncomplicated by potential network effects (especially when it comes to shot stopping). I don't think anything that Lampard has implemented has caused Kepa's save percentage to drop to the lowest in the history of the PL - there are fundamental mechanical flaws with the way Kepa plays the position that are a far bigger issue (e.g. he swings his arms behind his torso prior to diving - this delays the dive and ensures that his arms aren't properly extended and locked into position).
If you're at all interested in some of Kepa's foibles, here is a very good piece: https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2020/5/14/21257561/solving-chelseas-kepa-conundrum-part-1
B- season, 7/10, middle of the road, whichever way you want to phrase it. Probably done better than most people's expectations but then again most people's expectations were way off people were legit talking like we were starting on -12 points rather than having a transfer ban.
I think anybody claiming he's had a poor season are just reaching, or fishing.
Not done a bad job, not done a particularly impressive job.
Is he a Chelsea standard manager? I don't think so no. I hope I am proven wrong and happy enough with him already being in position to wait until it becomes clear he isn't up to the job for anything to change. He is green and has scope to improve but i've not seen enough evidence of adaptation/adjustment to fill me with encouragement that he will by how much is needed.
In all honesty I think there are possibly 9 managers currently employed in the PL alone that I would say would show better results if you were able to simulate their (current) managerial ability alongside Lampard's with the same playing squad over a league season.
I think anybody claiming he's had a poor season are just reaching, or fishing.
Not done a bad job, not done a particularly impressive job.
Is he a Chelsea standard manager? I don't think so no. I hope I am proven wrong and happy enough with him already being in position to wait until it becomes clear he isn't up to the job for anything to change. He is green and has scope to improve but i've not seen enough evidence of adaptation/adjustment to fill me with encouragement that he will by how much is needed.
In all honesty I think there are possibly 9 managers currently employed in the PL alone that I would say would show better results if you were able to simulate their (current) managerial ability alongside Lampard's with the same playing squad over a league season.
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True. The combination of the transfer ban, Lampard being an ex-teammate of 90% of pundits and being a popular ex-England player means he basically had a free pass. Their defensive record is weirdly bad and apparently it was the same at Derby but no-one will mention it (apart from Jonathan Wilson who is the only journalist in English football with a brain).
I think OGS got an easier ride from ex-teammates of his like Neville and Keane but with Lampard, that's replicated across the whole of English football media.
Which managers?
Interesting to read your thoughts on Lampard.
I hope to be proven wrong on Ole, but I have a feeling him and Lampard are similar. Neither truly top class as managers.
What's with your revisionism? Look through the predictions /expectations thread. Few people felt Chelsea would make top this season. Loads felt we would. It's only now that we have all of this "won Europa last season, went from 3rd to 4th" stuff.
Having said that, what on earth is he doing with their defence ?
I guess we can just put it all down to Kepa. Oh wait..
I guess we can just put it all down to Kepa. Oh wait..
Guardiola, Klopp, Nuno, Hassenhuttl, Mourinho, Bielsa, Rodgers, Potter, Arteta, Ancelotti. 10
Like I said I hope he proves me wrong. And I agree i'd hire all of the above over Solskjaer too if put in charge of club X and given the choice.
I can only imagine the criticism Ole would get if we'd lost 7-1 on aggregate in the CL.
Instead, there are articles about how Chelsea were "schooled but not embarrassed by brutal Bayern."
Instead, there are articles about how Chelsea were "schooled but not embarrassed by brutal Bayern."
His Derby outfit in 2018/19 were notoriously leaky for a top Championship side as well, particularly at set pieces.Having said that, what on earth is he doing with their defence ?
I guess we can just put it all down to Kepa. Oh wait..
He needs to get a specialist defence coach in. Fast.
Is that a thing clubs have? A specialist defence coach?
I can't remember Chelsea ever having one.
Mourinho...? What. He comes back and sell Martial.
Chelsea fan so he would like that.
We lost 0:4 on aggregate last year with our full team and few criticized Ole.
Is saying Mourinho too obvious a joke?
I'm pretty sure that coaches are increasingly specialised these days and that every top club will have attacking coaches, defending coaches, GK coaches, fitness coaches etc, as well as the supplementary experts like nutritionists etc.
Perhaps it indicates that your squad already contained some really good talent that just needed utilisation. In that respect, the whole transfer ban thing wasn’t such a bad thing, but rather a facilitator. For the record, I’ve said a number of times that Chelsea are a good attacking outfit and Lampard does deserve fair credit for that. At that same time, you have been a hugely beatable outfit this season, with obvious defensive deficiencies that you can’t just sweep under the rug and blame on Kepa. Actually, as an opposition fan, I hope you do exactly that, because it’ll mean that you fail to deal with the personnel and systemic issues in your side.
Anyway, the upshot is quite simple. Lampard is a nice enough guy, a promising manager. Your squad for the first time in years contains some quite likeable players from an opposition perspective. But the constant media fawning and overrating is maddening tbh. I think there’s a genuine case to say that Ole has done better work, but I’m not sat here thinking he should be on the Manager of the Year shortlist.
Lampard over performed in the league and getting to a cup final this year, couldn't expect to finish above Spurs, Arsenal or Utd, let alone City and Liverpool.
What concerns me is that he's too arrogant to notice his own tactical failings, so we've seen Kepa blamed instead. Defensive basics, structure, team setup are wrong.
Need a coach to help him with it, if he'll accept it. I don't see a new GK and LB making that much difference, we'll still ship 50 odd goals in the league, though we might score 10 to 20 more with new attacking signings.
What concerns me is that he's too arrogant to notice his own tactical failings, so we've seen Kepa blamed instead. Defensive basics, structure, team setup are wrong.
Need a coach to help him with it, if he'll accept it. I don't see a new GK and LB making that much difference, we'll still ship 50 odd goals in the league, though we might score 10 to 20 more with new attacking signings.
Did anyone expect Spurs to scrape 6th and Arsenal to finish 8th?
Why are we still quoting pre season predictions here? With those 2 gone all you did was finish above Wolves and Leicester.