Frank Lampard | Former Chelsea manager

roonster09

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Without Bruno there is not a hope in hell we would have made top 4, which was the minimum expectation at the start of the season. Perhaps we should see how Ole improves the team from here, before calling him our Messiah don't you think?
Why without Bruno? I don't get this new "without Bruno" thing.

Maybe without VVD there wouldn't have been CL and PL titles for Klopp, likewise without Laporte, Aguero, KdB there wouldn't be PL titles for Klopp.

It's funny how "without Bruno" is used but completely ignored that we played most of the season without Pogba and then Martial, Rashford were injured at different stages of the season with Shaw playing only 50% of total mins.

Edit: didn't realise this was Lampard thread, weird these excuses are used in this thread.
 

roonster09

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Actually the same was said about Klopp pre Van Djik.

I think if you have a functional attacking system, it only takes 1 great defender to plug the hole at the back. That's what Klopp did with Van Djik and eventually Allison too.
And Robertson, plus TAA developing, plus Fabinho.

So that's GK+CB+FBs+DM that's a whole defensive system.
 

hmchan

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Ole didn’t have the wealth of attacking options Chelsea have though. They have about 3 competent attacking midfielders as is. Mount, RLC and Barkley there, with Mount being one of their standout performers this season.

Maguire is unfairly maligned here. He has been an ever present, a proper captain and has had far more good games than bad ones.

Chelsea have Ziyech and Werner to add already. Serious work needs to be done at the back. A GK won’t resolve it.
A similar situation but the problem is opposite. We desperately needed an attacking midfielder and Ole went for Maguire; now Lampard apparently needs some good defenders but he invests in Ziyech, Werner and is now linked with Havertz. Point is, they both tend to buy players they like rather than players they need. We are privileged to spend another 60m in the winter transfer window to bring in Bruno and fix the problem, not sure if Chelsea have the luxury to do the same.
 
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Dancfc

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A similar situation but the problem is opposite. We desperately needed an attacking midfielder and Ole went for Maguire; now Lampard apparently needs some good defenders but he invests in Ziyech, Werner and is now linked with Havertz. Point is, they both tend to buy players they like rather than players they need. We are privileged to spend another 60m in the winter transfer window to bring in Bruno and fix the problem, not sure if Chelsea have the luxury to do the same.
Funny you mention United last summer because you actually conceded as many goals last season as we have this yet despite that the feeling was you need to get attackers in before defenders as you've alluded too.

It's a similar song with us now, while long term only James (and maybe Azpi if he defies science Ibra style) will be good enough to be in a future title winning defense there's more an immediate need to get some quality up top, we just don't have enough consistent quality up there and it's why teams have been constantly able to shithouse results against us, we've been too easy to contain via a low block unless both Pulisic and Willian (or Willian and CHO) have been bang on it at the same time and even when that happens we often made games harder than they should have been by squarendering chances like it's going out of fashion.
 

DoubleLeg_Savage

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We have needed to be more clinical for a long time. We are still not clinical enough imo, and we also lack creativity. This is where Ziyech, Werner and Havertz would sort that out. Sure, the defence needs upgrading, but Tomori and Zouma are arguably our best defenders. James is still maturing and learning. LB and a GK are important areas to strengthen. A CB would be great, but unfortunately there's very few top quality CBs around at the moment. Van Dijk was available at the right time, but went to Liverpool. Koulibaly was the other CB, but he's going to cost a fortune and he's almost 30.
 

Dancfc

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Knew I’d seen that somewhere! Such a joke really.
Well given you're the one repeatedly banging on about crap we are you should be the last one to dispute this :lol:

Regarding the winner, i would have said Wilder if he got Europe but their mini collapse probably gives it to Klopp!
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Brendan Rodgers :lol: :lol:

Some kind of joke right?
Posted this in another thread but in fairness, 5th is Leicester's second highest finish in the top flight ever. Obviously they tailed off down the line but if you'd offered them 5th at the start of the year they'd have snapped your hand off.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Well given you're the one repeatedly banging on about crap we are you should be the last one to dispute this :lol:

Regarding the winner, i would have said Wilder if he got Europe but their mini collapse probably gives it to Klopp!
I haven’t said anything about you being crap. I think it’s overrating Chelsea to say they will be miles better next season which I’ve continually argued and I think it’s overrating Chelsea to say they are better than Utd. It’s as simple as that. Lampard has done an okay job but nothing more. Ole in comparison has massively exceeded expectations from where Utd were at the season start.
 

No Idea For Nickname

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Posted this in another thread but in fairness, 5th is Leicester's second highest finish in the top flight ever. Obviously they tailed off down the line but if you'd offered them 5th at the start of the year they'd have snapped your hand off.
I don't know really, they were third in January, February, before Covid, lots of points above us, had a complete collapsing meltdown after lockdown, and he gets nominated for manager of the year? Why? Cause he is British?
(And if anyone says "injuries" post lockdown, remember how many players we had injured during season)
 

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I haven’t said anything about you being crap. I think it’s overrating Chelsea to say they will be miles better next season which I’ve continually argued and I think it’s overrating Chelsea to say they are better than Utd. It’s as simple as that. Lampard has done an okay job but nothing more. Ole in comparison has massively exceeded expectations from where Utd were at the season start.
Has he though? He’s done a great job in the second half of the season but Lampard has had to deal with a transfer ban. I don’t think he deserves a nomination given the points totals for 3/4th place being the lowest they’ve been in a while however he’s done a pretty good job all things considered. Both Ole and Lampard are managers with good ideas on the game and there’s no doubt this window especially they’ve both got opportunities if backed by their respective boards to get excellent players in that will over the short and long term to bridge the gap. Players that in another season they may not have been able to get.

Next season will definitely be interesting as both sides have the quality and potential to improve by 10-15 points and that would represent a major building block for both. Neither club needs to sell players and generate enough cash to not have to go through extensive rebuilds. Learning how to manage a league and European campaign will be the litmus test for both.

I think you’re both in similar positions going in to next season with plenty of reason for optimism. I don’t think either is quite there in terms of a title challenge just yet but the premier league is an unforgiving beast. Anything can happen.
 

Idxomer

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Jurgen Klopp and Chris WIlder should have been the only people nominated. Lampard has had a decent first season as a Premier League manager, nothing more. If Lampard is on that list then Solskjaer should be there too and neither of them did so well they should be nominated.
Hasenhuttl should be in there instead of Lampard.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I don't know really, they were third in January, February, before Covid, lots of points above us, had a complete collapsing meltdown after lockdown, and he gets nominated for manager of the year? Why? Cause he is British?
(And if anyone says "injuries" post lockdown, remember how many players we had injured during season)
He's Irish.
 

jackal&hyde

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The English media are still going with the "Lampard great job" and "Ole we are not sure, probably not good enough". Is England the most Nationalistic (i want to avoid worse words) league right now? I can not see this happen in Spain or Italy with managers.
 

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Hasenhuttl should be in there instead of Lampard.
The recovery from that 9-0 loss to Leicester was good but an established Premier League club finishing 11th doesn't merit a manager of the year nomination.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I don't know really, they were third in January, February, before Covid, lots of points above us, had a complete collapsing meltdown after lockdown, and he gets nominated for manager of the year? Why? Cause he is British?
(And if anyone says "injuries" post lockdown, remember how many players we had injured during season)
I mean, this is a false equivalence - compare the budgets / squad value. Injuries affected Leicester more than United because the step down in quality was greater; I don't think this is controversial to say in the slightest.

That said, yes I don't think he deserves the award but finishing 5th is a positive outcome for that team. It's not outrageous that he's nominated in my opinion.
 
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The English media are still going with the "Lampard great job" and "Ole we are not sure, probably not good enough". Is England the most Nationalistic (i want to avoid worse words) league right now? I can not see this happen in Spain or Italy with managers.
When half our fanbase have been on OGS’ back all season and calling him a teacher, not good enough, only in a job because of Bruno etc - then it’s hardly an English bias towards Lampard.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Has he though? He’s done a great job in the second half of the season but Lampard has had to deal with a transfer ban. I don’t think he deserves a nomination given the points totals for 3/4th place being the lowest they’ve been in a while however he’s done a pretty good job all things considered. Both Ole and Lampard are managers with good ideas on the game and there’s no doubt this window especially they’ve both got opportunities if backed by their respective boards to get excellent players in that will over the short and long term to bridge the gap. Players that in another season they may not have been able to get.

Next season will definitely be interesting as both sides have the quality and potential to improve by 10-15 points and that would represent a major building block for both. Neither club needs to sell players and generate enough cash to not have to go through extensive rebuilds. Learning how to manage a league and European campaign will be the litmus test for both.

I think you’re both in similar positions going in to next season with plenty of reason for optimism. I don’t think either is quite there in terms of a title challenge just yet but the premier league is an unforgiving beast. Anything can happen.
I just think it’s obvious that Ole has had an objectively better season than Lampard and if their nationalities were reversed then the media narrative would have too.

Sure Chelsea had a transfer ban but they also have access to a whole squads worth of loan players playing across Europe. Players who are undoubtably talented and have been overlooked at Chelsea for years. He also did have access to Pulisic as a Hazard replacement and while he’s a drop in quality, he’s proven to be a very talented player in his own right this season. Chelsea are less reliant on individual stars in their first 11 and for that they deserve credit, but they also have access to a far deeper pool of similar quality players compared to Utd. When we lose Pogba, Ole then has to turn to players like Lingard or Periera who are just nowhere near good enough for this level.

Utds injury problems have been blown under the carpet this season. We have missed pogba all season while Martial and Rashford have missed 4 months between them. The nature of the Utd squad means we are more reliant on individual players then Chelsea which means when those players are missing there’s really not much Ole can do. The fact is, very few pundits, or fans placed Utd anywhere near the top four at the season start, even fewer had us in third place. Ole has managed to navigate injuries to key players, maintain an excellent record in big games, whilst also playing some of the best football in the league in the second half of the season. Bare in mind that we achieved this with the youngest squad in the division! We put in one of the runs of the season and again aren’t getting enough credit considering our position at Christmas.

I think everyone has been too easily swayed by the media narrative which is based around the fact Lampard is an English darling. Chelsea have had a good season, but what Ole has done is nothing short of miraculous, especially when you consider the state Mourinho left us in just 18 months ago.
 

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Ole won't care about this. More important things to worry about.

Let the media wank Lampard and Rodgers off. They can fight it out for 4th again next season.
 

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It’s nice when the anti British Brigade come unstuck.
Personally I don't think Rogers's nomination is controversial. They were so close to CL qualification despite the collapse. Lampard's is generous but there wasn't another more deserving manager left out I don't think. You could argue for Ole I guess or maybe the Soton manager at a push.
 

SteveW

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I just think it’s obvious that Ole has had an objectively better season than Lampard and if their nationalities were reversed then the media narrative would have too.

Sure Chelsea had a transfer ban but they also have access to a whole squads worth of loan players playing across Europe. Players who are undoubtably talented and have been overlooked at Chelsea for years. He also did have access to Pulisic as a Hazard replacement and while he’s a drop in quality, he’s proven to be a very talented player in his own right this season. Chelsea are less reliant on individual stars in their first 11 and for that they deserve credit, but they also have access to a far deeper pool of similar quality players compared to Utd. When we lose Pogba, Ole then has to turn to players like Lingard or Periera who are just nowhere near good enough for this level.

Utds injury problems have been blown under the carpet this season. We have missed pogba all season while Martial and Rashford have missed 4 months between them. The nature of the Utd squad means we are more reliant on individual players then Chelsea which means when those players are missing there’s really not much Ole can do. The fact is, very few pundits, or fans placed Utd anywhere near the top four at the season start, even fewer had us in third place. Ole has managed to navigate injuries to key players, maintain an excellent record in big games, whilst also playing some of the best football in the league in the second half of the season. Bare in mind that we achieved this with the youngest squad in the division! We put in one of the runs of the season and again aren’t getting enough credit considering our position at Christmas.

I think everyone has been too easily swayed by the media narrative which is based around the fact Lampard is an English darling. Chelsea have had a good season, but what Ole has done is nothing short of miraculous, especially when you consider the state Mourinho left us in just 18 months ago.
By not signing a CM last summer the board left Ole in awful trouble. Finishing 3rd was miraculous with the midfields we had available for the first half of the season.

He had to completely transform Fred and Matic just to bring our midfield up to average by January.
 
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Personally I don't think Rogers's nomination is controversial. They were so close to CL qualification despite the collapse. Lampard's is generous but there wasn't another more deserving manager left out I don't think. You could argue for Ole I guess or maybe the Soton manager at a push.
Rogers is not controversial at all.

For OGS and Lampard, it’s close and pretty much a toss up, perhaps Chelsea getting to the FA Cup final swung it.

Kloop will (rightly) win in any case, so not sure why posters here are getting their knickers in a twist about who has been nominated in a one horse race.
 

romufc

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Posted this in another thread but in fairness, 5th is Leicester's second highest finish in the top flight ever. Obviously they tailed off down the line but if you'd offered them 5th at the start of the year they'd have snapped your hand off.
I appreciate that the finish is a good one but a manager is judged on how he has performed in the season, given they were 2nd /3rd for almost the entire season, finishing 5th is not a great achievement all things considered.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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By not signing a CM last summer the board left Ole in awful trouble. Finishing 3rd was miraculous with the midfields we had available for the first half of the season.

He had to completely transform Fred and Matic just to bring our midfield up to average by January.
Exactly. He was also widely criticised for getting rid of Lukaku and not having a recognised striker/attacker and yet he has turned Martial into one of the best strikers in the league and Rashford into an excellent wide forward. Many of Utds players had massive questions asked of them at the start of the season and most have answered them and now look set to become very good players, this has to be at least partially accredited to Ole and his coaching/management.
 

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I appreciate that the finish is a good one but a manager is judged on how he has performed in the season, given they were 2nd /3rd for almost the entire season, finishing 5th is not a great achievement all things considered.
This seems like strange logic to me. It's effectively like saying the season would have been classed as a greater success had the results occurred in a different order.
 

jackal&hyde

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When half our fanbase have been on OGS’ back all season and calling him a teacher, not good enough, only in a job because of Bruno etc - then it’s hardly an English bias towards Lampard.
First of all, it was nothing like half the fan base or else it would have been major "boos" at the stadium. It was online and on forums.

My point was in relation to how this two managers are portrayed in the English press: good Lamp vs poor Ole. It must be a major kick in the you know what that Ole actually finished above. You don't read many articles about his great work with the team though. United had a younger team then Chelsea yet Lapms is "he worked with a young team".

EDIT: from the 8 players nominated for young player of the year, United has 4. Talk about a good rebuilding job
 
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romufc

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This seems like strange logic to me. It's effectively like saying the season would have been classed as a greater success had the results occurred in a different order.
If they were 5th all season and ended up top 4, yes it would have been classed as a greater success.

Why are football come backs classed as a better success then?

Say being 2-0 down and winning the game in a final is always classed as a memorable final

But if you are 2-0 up and win 3-2 - it wont be remembered the same way.

It's not like I am saying Ole should be there because he wasnt one of the better managers. I think Nuno has done better IMO.
 

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If they were 5th all season and ended up top 4, yes it would have been classed as a greater success.

Why are football come backs classed as a better success then?

Say being 2-0 down and winning the game in a final is always classed as a memorable final

But if you are 2-0 up and win 3-2 - it wont be remembered the same way.

It's not like I am saying Ole should be there because he wasnt one of the better managers. I think Nuno has done better IMO.
I love a comeback as much as the next guy because they are exciting. I just see things differently I guess when it comes to judging a managers performance over a season. Nothing wrong with that. If they had stayed in fifth position from the start of the season till the end of the season, would you have classed that as a better season than the one they have had?
 

SteveW

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Exactly. He was also widely criticised for getting rid of Lukaku and not having a recognised striker/attacker and yet he has turned Martial into one of the best strikers in the league and Rashford into an excellent wide forward. Many of Utds players had massive questions asked of them at the start of the season and most have answered them and now look set to become very good players, this has to be at least partially accredited to Ole and his coaching/management.
He's done a great job. Praise will follow in time.

Doubt if Ole will ever care about that though. Seems too humble, focused and stoic to care about individual awards. There's work to do.
 

romufc

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I love a comeback as much as the next guy because they are exciting. I just see things differently I guess when it comes to judging a managers performance over a season. Nothing wrong with that. If they had stayed in fifth position from the start of the season till the end of the season, would you have classed that as a better season than the one they have had?
No, because other managers around them have had European football to contend with as well. Leicester started of so well and then bottled it really, they started the form off from last season when he came, so it wasnt like a major surprise if they came 5th.

Anyway, on reflection it doesn't really matter because more often than not the PL winners win it anyway.