I just want to know how much of a say he's had with their transfers... I don't see how any manager would want to sign that many attackers with all of the players that they already had.
Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Give it Shevchenko till the end of the season.
ESPN now chiming in:
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/che...ent-with-lampard-despite-poor-results-sources
Very reasonable article on the situation I think.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/che...ent-with-lampard-despite-poor-results-sources
Very reasonable article on the situation I think.
di matteo is an obvious example. I remember articles labelling it ruthless, brutal, etc...
No idea. Lampard has preached tactical flexibility until the cows come home yet is totally married to a single system of late. One of our best results last year was turning Arsenal over 2-1 after conceding early on in an incredibly poor 30 minutes - Lampard deserved huge credit that game because he hauled off Emerson at the half hour mark and we switched to 4 at the back. There's absolutely zero sign of that right now.
This year, he's banished players arbitrarily whilst playing those out of form, in game we are doing utterly bizarre things like conceding acres of space right in front of the back 4 against fecking Man City, picking players like Kovacic to support our main creative player in Ziyech instead of Havertz given we're forced to use the corpse of Azpilicueta (in part because we wouldn't give Lamptey significant minutes last year despite him obviously being ready), and making like-for-like subs whilst 3-0 down. Some of the lineups are also indefensible - Pulisic has suffered repeated hamstring problems yet he's picked to play 180 minutes in 48 hours? CHO has inarguably looked our best attacking winger of late yet is banished to the bench? The selection isn't a meritocracy ultimately, and it's cost Lampard his credibility within the squad if reports are to be believed. Why bother trying for a manager if his mind is made up already?
I think he can still turn it around but I am increasingly pessimistic. I'd be far less unsettled if he was failing whilst trying new ideas - unfortunately there's no sign of that. At this point his expiration date has to be the summer at latest unless things change dramatically; given that apparently Chelsea were admirers of Pochetino but have obviously missed the boat there, it wouldn't surprise me if the hierarchy move aggressively for Tuchel given he's the best manager on the market and may be in greater demand soon.
Ole relegating Cardiff and failed to get them back into PL. Klopp relegating Mainz and failed to get them back into Bundesliga after. These two managers have experienced failures before, lot of managers learnt and become better from their tough time and failures. I had ones in my job too, lot of people had ones in their professional job.
Chelsea gave the job to Lampard to me more like Lampard is using Chelsea as his learning process. Unless if Chelsea has changed their philosophy to accept failure to give their manager time, I see the Lampard appointment as the strangest decision that Chelsea board ever made post Abramovich era whether it’s ending up successful or failure.
Chelsea gave the job to Lampard to me more like Lampard is using Chelsea as his learning process. Unless if Chelsea has changed their philosophy to accept failure to give their manager time, I see the Lampard appointment as the strangest decision that Chelsea board ever made post Abramovich era whether it’s ending up successful or failure.
Don't even know why I'm bothering but if you can't see the difference between progression whilst playing as an 8 versus as a 6 then again, this is pointless.
Pirlo was an entirely mediocre 8 but a world class 6. Pogba is an 8 who hasn't impressed as a 6. Lampard was an 8 who struggled to play as a 6. The list goes on and on. These are different positions and require different attributes to play them to a high level. This isn't FIFA, you can't look at a player's passing stat on the card and plug him in wherever.
All of this is to say nothing regarding the immense spaces they leave behind them. If you watched the City game and still can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
Good to hear your take on it. I was sat watching as a neutral wondering why he didn't make any adjustments and when he did it was like for like changes after the hour mark. Couldn't understand it least not when you had forwards on the bench like Tammy and Giroud who could have given Werner some support and occupied another centre half. It all felt so passive and as if he'd just accepted the result and was going through the motions. Not the example you want to set as gaffer.
Interesting what you say about losing credibility in the dressing room. What's been said about this? It would make some sense. I did mention that the new signings could cause some disruption and weren't overly needed in those areas but was laughed at by @ZolaWasMagic and others.
When you see Ziyech strolling back on the third goal and not a single defender back covering you have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes a bit really.
Lampard has tied his shoe laces one foot to another due to not building on the team from last season but rather changing the entire spine of the attack to primarily rely on players coming from another league / environment and struggling to adapt.
I still don't think talk of him being sacked is even remotely justified, Chelsea were always in need of investment having lost Hazard who has been the stand out player for them for the best part of a decade. Transition was always going to happen but too many changes at once seldom is ever fruitful without time to help the development. Especially in the league I think Fulham few years ago exemplified this with how quick they went down.
I still don't think talk of him being sacked is even remotely justified, Chelsea were always in need of investment having lost Hazard who has been the stand out player for them for the best part of a decade. Transition was always going to happen but too many changes at once seldom is ever fruitful without time to help the development. Especially in the league I think Fulham few years ago exemplified this with how quick they went down.
I think you've been bang on re: some of the disruption caused by the new signings and I'll hold my hands up and admit that while I don't think I laughed at you, I definitely downplayed it a bit.
Re: Ziyech, he may have been trying to protect his hamstring a bit (it's definitely strange to throw him into the fire straightaway in his first game back, I'd say) and also probably some understandable frustration given the events unfolding and the players around him. As you say, though, not great from an optics perspective.
Re: the dressing room, this was reported in that piece by The Athletic - the gist is several players feel as though their performances have warranted more of a look-in and that Lampard clearly has his favourites that he'll pick regardless of results. One can understand how this would be frustrating. I think one thing that we can say pretty definitively is that Lampard has done a poor job of managing this squad, which to be fair is quite bloated.
This season is surely an abnormal one. The norm is to be disrupted. Why people are so knee-jerk on any unexpected or undesirable results?
Every team had and probably will have several spells of poor runs.
Today, Carragher just claimed that without buying a new CB, pool couldn’t compete for the title this season.
Our own legends wrote us completely off one month ago.
I can only say we are so emotional
Every team had and probably will have several spells of poor runs.
Today, Carragher just claimed that without buying a new CB, pool couldn’t compete for the title this season.
Our own legends wrote us completely off one month ago.
I can only say we are so emotional
I think it was always going to be difficult to manage the squad given the signings that were made. Essentially everyone who did well last season had an expensive "replacement" come in. Tammy/Werner, Mount/Havertz etc. Even with Ziyech you already had both CHO with plenty to prove on a new deal and an in form Pulisic.
Obviously I'm not saying all the signings were wrong as we all know good squads are built with competition but I still feel you spent alot of money in areas you didn't necessarily need to. It's clear Billy Gilmore should be getting more minutes and a player like Declan Rice would have made much more sense than a Havertz.
Plenty of square pegs in round holes. I genuinely wonder if Frank wanted these players.
So irrelevant and typical a narrow minder like you using FIFA excuse to defend an argument. By your FIFA excuse that means Ole is playing FIFA because he plays McTominay and Fred in double pivot who are also lack quality in their ball progression and yet it works. It will be nice to have Thiago type of midfielder of passer because more quality in progressive ball means more efficient and but tactic is very variable doesn’t mean less quality won’t work and I have explained it to you how you don’t need to be great ball progression in order to make progressive ball to more your creative players, like what McTominay & Fred did for us in double pivot, you keep avoiding that point I made without making any counter argument. You need to make counter argument on that, stop avoiding it!
I think CHO a really good player. Why don’t they try to combine him with the other small-size players (pulisic, mint, Werner) to form a flexible, floating system? I think CHO can develop into a creative driver not only playing on wings. He is totally wasted in Chelsea.
Again, and as I've said before, it's because you have Bruno. Who is a freakishly talented and versatile attacking player in that he can drop deep from the 10 position to progress the ball then get himself into the attacking third or he can feign dropping deep to pull defenders out of the way. It becomes far easier to make passes into attackers if no one is in the passing lanes, though you can hardly fault the opposition given Bruno's quality. Chelsea very obviously have no one on his level.
The other big loss for us at the moment is James. He does so much in terms of progression from deep wide areas - because City could effectively ignore Azpilicueta, their press could be more focused on central and left sided areas.
And again that’s why I told you, the issue isn’t because fundamentally it won’t work as pairing. The issues are your manager Lampard‘s tactic & coaching and Havertz (Look at post below), the very first post that started this conversation on the first paragraph as well but you ignore it. Like I said before, it’s always tough to have proper discussion with someone who don’t read like you.
In fairness, Gilmour has only just come back from a meniscus tear.
I think the critique that our capital could have been better allocated is a fair one. It's pretty clear at this point that Chelsea viewed the opportunity to buy Havertz as a totally unique one afforded by the Hazard fee and the pandemic - obviously he hasn't pulled up trees but he's a potentially generational player and the club can't be faulted overly for springing for him given the circumstances. I'd also say there were real questions over the quality / durability of our attack from last year - we definitely underperformed our xG numbers and I think it's fair to say all of our attackers had their limitations. In this respect Lampard deserves a lot of credit - he definitely did a very good job last year.
Re: his input, he was instrumental in the signings of Chilwell, Ziyech, and Werner. He pushed for a new goalkeeper but deferred to Cech & Lollichon - anyone they picked he'd accept, he just didn't want Kepa. Thiago Silva and Havertz were signings made by the hierarchy, again primarily driven by opportunism.
So Lampard should just play our team the way you do despite the fact that you have a virtually unique attacking talent whose output is more or less completely unprecedented? Do you really think that Bruno's success is down to Ole's tactics and not, ya know, his innate talent?
Would I love it if Havertz was Bruno? Yes of course. Is that a likely outcome? No not really. And weakening our midfield to chase that pipe dream hardly seems a good idea.
It’s not about talent. It’s about coaching players, training them and tactic/system to get the best out of them. Bruno in Lampard’s tactic now will be forced to play sideways to full backs instead.
Lampard is the one who signed Havertz, spent lot of money on Havertz and if we use your logic on the reason that Kante & Kovacic aren’t good enough with their progressive ball with Havertz being not creative enough then he signed the wrong players then? Which the opposite of what you said last time.
Bruno is an unique talent and has unique experience as well. Bruno spent early years in series A and then moved back to Portugal. He figured out the productivity two or three years ago. So, when we got him last year, he has already been a super player. But to make a such significant impact, I think it is also because our system and players are a perfect match with him.
McFred duel-pivot works best with Bruno in front. Without duel pivot, Bruno’s impact is less fluent, but he still produces important assistance and goals.
I think CHO might develop into some player. He is from your academy and very matured already. Why not to give him consistent opportunity to develop? If he is in manutd, I guess Ole will use him as many games as possible.
And again. This was after 11 games. To that point, I stand by what I said. You can call it reactionary, call it knee-jerky, that's fine. Based on what had been shown to that point I stand by it.
Also, do you think Brunos just grow on trees? I'd love to plant that fecking tree in my backyard. Re: Havertz, Lampard isn't the one who signed him and he always was clearly a luxury purchase to take advantage of the unique COVID / Hazard market. That statement you quoted had to do with signing Chilwell, Mendy, Silva, and Ziyech. In that respect I still think Lampard did a better job of addressing the needs of our team than Ole did yours last summer.
I wasn't talking about after 11 games, I was talking about both 11 games and post the 11 games.
And again. This was after 11 games. To that point, I stand by what I said. You can call it reactionary, call it knee-jerky, that's fine. Based on what had been shown to that point I stand by it.
Also, do you think Brunos just grow on trees? I'd love to plant that fecking tree in my backyard. Re: Havertz, Lampard isn't the one who signed him and he always was clearly a luxury purchase to take advantage of the unique COVID / Hazard market. That statement you quoted had to do with signing Chilwell, Mendy, Silva, and Ziyech. In that respect I still think Lampard did a better job of addressing the needs of our team than Ole did yours last summer.
Talent without proper system is wasted because Bruno also has his own weakness despite of his talent. Ole's system is to play direct and risky passes, Bruno has his strength to make those through balls but he often give the ball away due to his passing tends to lack accuracy. However, Ole is not afraid to let his players to lose possession easily unlike certain managers this suits to Bruno's strength and weakness.
And let's not pretend that Havertz is not talented enough here, he is considered as world class talent with ability to play through balls as one of his major strengths offensively, even people make Ozil comparison on him. He has the ability & talent to play in that no 10 role behind Kovacic & Kante if being coached properly. Even if you don't fancy him, you can always play Ziyech in the role so again my point still stands that fundamentally both can work as pairing.
Press have been briefed it seems that Lampard wont be sacked imminently but he is battling for his job and there are a few tensions around the training ground. I think the fact Tuchel's name is quite widely reported as possibly being the next man, and the board being alerted to his availability in all these reports shows that he will be the next man, id wager.
I think Werner was Frank's pick and Chilwell and Ziyech. Havertz not sure, Mendy definitely not, i still think Lampard wanted Nick Pope. I myself would have gone for Onana but Mendy has been alright for my money. Silva seems a board choice, experienced, quality and free.
Its square pegs in round holes because of a lack of managerial experience IMO. And the lack of a plan B. He is so favourable of certain players and a formation that he's almost shoehorning people into the team, thus causing underperformance and will eventually, sadly, cost him his job.
There is definitely tensions around the place as reported, you'd be so naive and dumb to think otherwise. Fulham looks a tougher game than i anticipated suddenly. If we beat them, and Leicester and Wolves, i think he will get a bit of confidence back and we will go on a run then. Lose to Fulham, i think he's on the brink and may not even make Leicester. Beat Fulham, lose to Leic and Wolves i think also leaves him on the brink. Very, very important few weeks. Especially as few days before we play Fulham - Everton, Arsenal, Utd, Man City, Spurs/Villa all play.
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Leaving aside whether Lampard will or should get sacked or not, appointing a guy just because he happens to be the one out of a job and available is annoyingly silly. I keep hearing links to Allegri and Tuche, and I can only assume this is solely due to their availability. Chelsea typically don't do it that way - Conte, Sarri and Lampard were all approached whilst being in other jobs, Mourinho being the only one in the last decade we've found in the job centre.
I think Tuchel appeals because of the German connection with the big 2 summer signings, who the Athletic say are really concerning the board. And the fact he impressed the board previously by all accounts.
He's in massive trouble now
No way is he at Chelsea start of next season.
He's done for.
Give it to Avram till the end of the season!
Give it to Avram till the end of the season!
I actually don't dislike Lampard, but they don't look great at all, they've got the players to be doing much better than this you would think. I don't get what he wants this team to be, and he doesn't seem to really know what his best team is. I think he took the job way too early.
Give it Drogba till the end of the season!
In fairness he only had 200m in the summer.
He needed 300m
He needed 300m
45 mins or RIP.
He’s a gonna. Looks absolutely clueless, players just going through the motions.
Tick tock sadly.
The worrying thing is if they get a competent manager in.
What does @Rooney in Paris have to do with this?
I've got no idea what he was thinking with his team selection today?
Whats happened to Zouma all of a sudden? Whys he been dropped? Werner and Ziyech on the bench, two academy players preferred over two big money signings who were meant to be the upgrades to those players. Havertz who's been awful starting away against one of the better teams in the league? I assume Kante's injured or suspended?
He just doesn't know how to manage this squad at all
Whats happened to Zouma all of a sudden? Whys he been dropped? Werner and Ziyech on the bench, two academy players preferred over two big money signings who were meant to be the upgrades to those players. Havertz who's been awful starting away against one of the better teams in the league? I assume Kante's injured or suspended?
He just doesn't know how to manage this squad at all
Give it Ramirez till the end of the season
He needs more time...
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