Just admit you got it wrong and move on man. I don't really care. Nobody really cares.
Frank Lampard's Sack Watch / Sacked
- Thread starter SirAnderson
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
- Status
As a fan, sure to an extent, but when the club is your investment then sentimentality should not influence decisions.
This. its an anonymous forum. No one gives a shit.
It makes perfect sense that this happens now, and I think what it shows is that Chelsea haven't given up on making the top 4 this season.
Right now, Everton, in fourth place, project (on pts per game) at 72 points, Tottenham at 70 and Liverpool at 68. Leicester in third at 76. I think that to be reasonably certain to make top 4 this year, you'd aim for 75 points, and consider 70 to be the minimum that gives you an outside chance.
For Chelsea to reach 75 points, they can only drop another 11 points this season. They'll need to take 2.42 pts per game for the rest of the season, which is way better than anyone has managed in the first half (City and United are both at ~2.1). Essentially, they'll have to perform at a pace that would have netted them 92 points if they did it over a whole season - somewhere in between last year's City and last year's Liverpool. Obviously, this is already on the outer margins of realistic possibility. Wait a little longer and lose a few more points, and it's entirely pie in the sky.
To reach 70, they'll need to be more or less as good in the second half as City has been in the first (2.16 avg pts). Difficult, but perhaps not undoable, if Tuchel gets a grip immediately and the players respond.
Conclusion: If they were going to do it before summer, now was the time.
Right now, Everton, in fourth place, project (on pts per game) at 72 points, Tottenham at 70 and Liverpool at 68. Leicester in third at 76. I think that to be reasonably certain to make top 4 this year, you'd aim for 75 points, and consider 70 to be the minimum that gives you an outside chance.
For Chelsea to reach 75 points, they can only drop another 11 points this season. They'll need to take 2.42 pts per game for the rest of the season, which is way better than anyone has managed in the first half (City and United are both at ~2.1). Essentially, they'll have to perform at a pace that would have netted them 92 points if they did it over a whole season - somewhere in between last year's City and last year's Liverpool. Obviously, this is already on the outer margins of realistic possibility. Wait a little longer and lose a few more points, and it's entirely pie in the sky.
To reach 70, they'll need to be more or less as good in the second half as City has been in the first (2.16 avg pts). Difficult, but perhaps not undoable, if Tuchel gets a grip immediately and the players respond.
Conclusion: If they were going to do it before summer, now was the time.
If Chelsea come calling, how could he say no. It is his dear club. Such big opportunities don't come easily. It was worth taking a punt. If it worked, it would further his "club legend" status and also push him to the gang of big managers. If it did not work, he could still go back to the smaller clubs where he could continue his learning process.
And he did not wreck Chelsea as such. He is doing better than Arteta, albeit after spending insanely.
Never! What else am I going to do, some actual work?
And I do care a bit when people make out that I offered a bet then refused to back it up. I would never do that.
I was pretty honest with that newbie who offered the different bet and he's been banned since so probably a good thing I did!
Yeah, can’t blame him for giving it a go. I bet he‘ll have thought long and hard on this exact scenario before signing up though.
There's plenty on here who know my name and address. It's not that anonymous!
I think someone even has my bank details from a previous bet.
Don't worry mate, before long we will all be back focusing on the real delusion... Spurs fans believing that Mourinho has changed his ways/wasn't at fault for the Chelsea and United meltdowns.
There's too much of a hurrah when a manager is sacked, especially in England.
I don't think it's that big a deal that Chelsea decided to go in a different direction with Tuchel.
I don't think it's that big a deal that Chelsea decided to go in a different direction with Tuchel.
I’m winding you up man, you must expect that i
On a day like this.
I do think he has a decent amount of talent but this was just far too early for him. This really was a horrendous career choice for him, despite knowing why he chose to take the risk.
There's no way he could've foreseen how badly things would turn out though. Remember how so many fans here thought Chelsea had 'won' the summer transfer window?
You make a claim, then be ready to back it up. You claimed that "they are upset with us being top of the league". I don't think any United supporter is upset with us being top of the league. That is why I've asked you give some examples.
You wouldn't have to dig up half of the forum because we'd been top of the league since the win at Burnley, on the 12th January.
I agree, he doesn't leave the club worse than he found it. Quite a few good young players have been put on an upward trajectory who would not normally have received the same opportunities. Although of course his hand was forced by the transfer ban, he turned that situation into something good. I think the players he brought in this season will not on the whole turn out to be bad decisions. He leaves a very good squad, with no obvious major shortcomings. He just couldn't make it work. Maybe Tuchel can. I hope not.
I get "wummed" and told to stop posting on the regular, it's fine, it's a nice distraction, arguing about non-importamt stuff.
I'd not come back if it actually bothered me! Don't worry!
I think most experienced managers would know that adding so many new, first team players during one window would cause issues. Plenty of people on here said the same.
Wow when did this happen? Come as a massive shock. Saw nothing in the media
Tuchel will doing good, but I don't care.
We have board that are buying into a long term project not short term gains. Lampard was given the keys to the locker and bought who he wanted. If it had been him looking to promote youngsters as at Arsenal it may have saved him.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Ole has experience with Cardiff and molde so theres that. Still not enough but he is doing well at the moment.
If Timo Werner had been 3/4 of what he expected or made scored those easy chances where would Chelsea be?
Ole has the further experience of working with the club’s youth though. Lampard went in on the back of Derby...that’s not enough and in no way could prepare you for working for Roman
Ifs and buts eh
Karma for how he and his teammates pushed out AVB I guess.
I dont think theres much of a comparison between Chelsea & Arsenal. Chelsea are ruthless, utterly ambitious & it doesn't matter who the manager is they will fire them if he's not winning. It's not a slight as its served them well in the past.Not convinced at all TR. With Chelsea they dealt with the devil, this is part of the deal of having a filthy rich owner. They demand results and have little patience when they're throwing 200million of their own money at the club. I don't really think long term Managers are a thing in the slightest, it's more a case that the Premier League have the best Managers in the world here right now (with a few minor exceptions). So naturally they're going to be given more time. I was utterly baffled by both Arsenal and Chelsea appointing two rookie Managers. It's the last thing you want to be doing right now in the Premier League.
We were slightly different as Ole came in half way through as caretaker, we didn't sign him up initially so he had a chance to prove himself. It was an educated gamble on our part with results to back it up. Arsenal and Chelsea closed their eyes and hoped for the best. I mean, how do you expect Chelsea to react when Lamps was satisitcally the worst Manager in the Roman Era? A pat on the back? I'll applaud the Chelsea fans for sticking with him though, if Ole had Lampards results, Redcafe would be a smouldering wreck.
Arsenal aren't as driven as that. They've shown before they will give managers time, even if it's to the detriment of immediate results. If you're going to have the guts to hire a young inexperienced manager, you might as well have the balls to see it through. I think Arsenal are committed to the project. They are getting guys like Ozil, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Mustafi etc out the door, to help with the next stage of the rebuild.
We hardly knew ye...
I agree almost every bit you said, except the last sentence. It is definitely shit for what he has done this season with their situation. He is absolutely out of depth. But, he still can become a good even an excellent manager based on the way he wanted to play the young Chelsea side last season. It’s good experience ended badly but probably a very priceless lesson for me. No need to write him off too quickly but at the same time, we as United supporters, don’t really care that much.
I don't agree they had the third best squad to be honest. And with a transfer ban he couldn't shape it to what he wanted it to be. You were asking a manager with no top level experience and who's unable to out their own stamp on the squad in terms of transfer to do a good job. For me he over-achieved from what I expected. I didn't think they'd be in the top 4 at all. Fair enough there was a slide in the second half of the season. Us finishing ahead of them had a lot to do with our own improvement as well though.
Ironically Lampard's issue was very similar to AVB's demise imo, a lot of the player were disenchanted, demotivated and could see it in how they were playing.
If we were a happy camp and had this run of results, Lampard would have been given way more time.
Tuchel seems on his way very quickly indeed. Tells me Frank was on his way out regardless. I think it was just a case of waiting for Tuchel or A.N.Other's "yes"
The Athletic article paints a pretty glum portrait of Frank's tenure though. Deteriorating relationship with Marina. End of 2020 feelers were put out by her for new boss to come in.
Constant pushing for Declan Rice which the board got annoyed with. Having clear favourites and anyone outside his "circle" for want of a better word, were never spoken to.
Senior pro's noticing favoured treatment of the youngsters. Tomori, Rudiger, Alonso and Azpi were all on the list of players who can leave. No tactical instructions given pre-match just "go and express yourselves"
Reading it I came to one conclusion
Lampard was an appointment made during the transfer ban because he'd have never said no. But, all along, the idea was to go with someone better. He was never thought of as long term. His man management was dreadful, it seems
The Athletic article paints a pretty glum portrait of Frank's tenure though. Deteriorating relationship with Marina. End of 2020 feelers were put out by her for new boss to come in.
Constant pushing for Declan Rice which the board got annoyed with. Having clear favourites and anyone outside his "circle" for want of a better word, were never spoken to.
Senior pro's noticing favoured treatment of the youngsters. Tomori, Rudiger, Alonso and Azpi were all on the list of players who can leave. No tactical instructions given pre-match just "go and express yourselves"
Reading it I came to one conclusion
Lampard was an appointment made during the transfer ban because he'd have never said no. But, all along, the idea was to go with someone better. He was never thought of as long term. His man management was dreadful, it seems
Lampard was winging it, he never showed any tactical nouse when things went wrong, other than slamming players and making wholesale changes, whereas our tactical genius Ole simply keeps playing underperforming players like Martial, Greenwood and AWB in the hope they will eventually put in a few decent performances.
I swear this is the sports journo's go to lazy criticism these days. Ballague said Zidane did this in an article the other day and it was often used to criticise Ole but, realistically, is any top flight manager actually going to give zero tactical instruction or are they just twisting the scenario i.e. they've already had their tactical briefing and gone through their game plan and the only 'quote' they take is from just before the game kicks off.
Many have been saying that since he got the job, didn't need any article in the Athletic once he'd been sacked
Disappointed with this. I think Lampard had potential, not a perfect manager, but he was learning and did well last season. I think Chelsea made a mistake and signed far too many players in the summer. It upset the balance, and it was clear players who were not adapting were being shoehorned into the team.
Yep, 100%. That's where the true contrast is to Ole - Ole was given time because he had the players' backing and they were all settled. Lampard has created cliques in the squad and failed to promote anything resembling harmony, if reports are to be believed (and frankly it explains a lot).
Rangnick not wanting the job, even if on an interim basis, is further evidence of him being a smart man
To be fair, there has been absolutely no structure to our attack for weeks now. There was a moment in the Leicester game where Havertz received a pass between the lines and all 3 of his fellow attackers ran straight forward in a line, leaving him zero passing options whilst trying to cope with 2 recovering defenders.
The attacking patterns we showed earlier this season have seemingly been tossed out the window in favour of aimless crosses. Our best performances this year have featured tidy interplay attacking the right channel & flank, yet Lampard plays Kante and / or Kovacic there as 8s? Baffling stuff.
Chelsea are incredibly ruthless. It's worked for them. Nothing to see here.
Moving on.
Moving on.
- Status