Fred’s value

Falcow

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What is a pressing stat. He can huff and puff all game but still prone (not only him) to basic errors.
Can he shoot - No
First touch good - No
Tackles- Prone to cards
Sideways ping pass under zero pressure - 10/10

Simply cannot see what the guy brings to the team.
See my post directly above re what he brings to the team.

First touch is fine. He is not prone to cards and his lack of cards is impressive when you consider it's his role to do the dirty work. While he is no Xabi Alonso, he handles the press as well as any of our other midfielders.

No arguments on the shooting however.
 

wolvored

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Not Qualifying was not down to him being set off. We were 2-1 down before the sending off....
It could have been. With 11 men who knows what the final score would have been. A draw and we would have been through.
 

wolvored

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Fred is a £25 million signing in true value. He has got a good engine and tracks back thats his good traits and not very good at others. His passing, tackling and shooting, which you want from a midfielder leaves a lot to be desired. Replace him with a proper DM and you would see the difference.
 

Fridge chutney

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I wouldn't. We need to be building a deep squad full of competent players. We also need to invest in a proper defensive midfielder. Getting rid of Fred with Pogba on his way out would not be a good idea. He's also proved substantially over the past 1.5 years.
 

The Oracle

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He is not in the team for his goal scoring ability. By this logic, you must also want Shaw and AVB gone as well? Dont think Lindelof has ever scored for us either.

I accept he is shit when it comes to scoring goals but that's not his job, he is there for his work rate which is unmatched in the squad. People who dont value his contribution simply dont value work rate and dont understand how important it is in modern day football.

Do you really think it's a coincidence that our performances are so shit when he is not in the side? The opposition slices through us like a hot knife through butter. If you are unsure about that, have a look at the highlights of the 6 games he has missed. In those 6 games that he has missed this season we have conceded 18 goals....18 FCUKING GOALS!!! avg 3 per game.

Conceding 3 goals a game is what happens when you have nobody in the team that chases back and does the dirty work which is what he excels at.

My argument is that we are shit without him and the evidence is the 18 goals conceded in the 6 games he has missed.

I have zero expectations of defenders scoring goals. If and when a defender does score a goal it’s a bonus.
However when it comes to midfielders, of course I expect them to score goals.

18 goals conceded in the 6 games he has missed this season is an alarming stat.

If we were to look at the smaller picture, i.e. where we are currently at as a club:
  • Happy to finish in the Top 4
  • Don’t care about second rate competitions like the Europa League – despite it being a competition that we have a genuine chance of winning, and all silverware counts in my opinion
...then of course Fred is valuable in our current team, and should be in the starting eleven.


If we were to look at the bigger picture, i.e. where us, the fans, want the club to be at:
  • Challenging for the Premier League title
  • Consistently getting to the latter stages of the Champions League
...then Fred is not the answer.
 

Teja

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I wonder how many people dissing on Fred would have Henderson or Milner or Oxlade Chamberlain or Origi in their midfields in their CL winning sides. Sometimes it's not about just finding the absolute best player you can for each position, just one that you have and can do a specific job.

I for one think he's vital to how the team plays. Brings the energy Ole demands from an #8 but also his line breaking forward passes are very underrated. He has downsides - gives the ball away under pressure in risky areas, can't score to save his life, sometimes gets shrugged off by the opposition players when he's pressing but I think the negatives can be masked by playing a stronger, more defensively minded #8 like McTominay alongside him.

I don't get the hate on him after we got knocked out. Against PSG, I think Ole takes the blame for leaving him on the pitch. Against RBL he didn't even play. Scrollback before the PSG game and it was all sunshine and rainbows in this thread. I think the CL knockout has just brought out a bunch of bitter fans on here.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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This is really sad if true. Sad state of how our club and scouting department are run.

We're fishing for limited players...
Well, it's not true isn't it. I'm sure the idea of signing Fred was in order to get the best out of Pogba so Mourinho can play Matic as 6, Fred as 8 and Pogba as that no 10. He's brought in to be the support role to get the best out of the star player which was Pogba, it took time for him to adjust the league and when he managed to adapt his game with new league, he performed very well in the period when Pogba had his injury and this season. His game also suits to Bruno's style & together make the team perform better.

It's not coincidence that we don't perform good enough when he didn't play but we performed when he played. Even when we lost 3-1 to PSG or being 2-0 down to Southampton, everyone agree we were actually playing well but when we beat West Ham 3-1, we were so shit. Not top class midfielder but he plays important role in our good performance games.
 

Falcow

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I have zero expectations of defenders scoring goals. If and when a defender does score a goal it’s a bonus.
However when it comes to midfielders, of course I expect them to score goals.

18 goals conceded in the 6 games he has missed this season is an alarming stat.

If we were to look at the smaller picture, i.e. where we are currently at as a club:
  • Happy to finish in the Top 4
  • Don’t care about second rate competitions like the Europa League – despite it being a competition that we have a genuine chance of winning, and all silverware counts in my opinion
...then of course Fred is valuable in our current team, and should be in the starting eleven.


If we were to look at the bigger picture, i.e. where us, the fans, want the club to be at:
  • Challenging for the Premier League title
  • Consistently getting to the latter stages of the Champions League
...then Fred is not the answer.
Fair enough, I respect your opinion and also I accept Fred is not the complete midfielder. Happy to agree to disagree. As a poster above highlights however, liverpool have done ok with the likes of Milner and Henderson.

I would even argue that we need more like him in terms of workrate and effort. Most of our team and guilty when it comes to workrate, Shaw, AVB, Pogba, Martial.....pretty much everyone really apart from Fred and Bruno
 

Falcow

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I wonder how many people dissing on Fred would have Henderson or Milner or Oxlade Chamberlain or Origi in their midfields in their CL winning sides. Sometimes it's not about just finding the absolute best player you can for each position, just one that you have and can do a specific job.

I for one think he's vital to how the team plays. Brings the energy Ole demands from an #8 but also his line breaking forward passes are very underrated. He has downsides - gives the ball away under pressure in risky areas, can't score to save his life, sometimes gets shrugged off by the opposition players when he's pressing but I think the negatives can be masked by playing a stronger, more defensively minded #8 like McTominay alongside him.

I don't get the hate on him after we got knocked out. Against PSG, I think Ole takes the blame for leaving him on the pitch. Against RBL he didn't even play. Scrollback before the PSG game and it was all sunshine and rainbows in this thread. I think the CL knockout has just brought out a bunch of bitter fans on here.
100% agree. People seem to think you need the 11 best players in the world in each position to be successful. Obviously you dont....you need a team. Having a workhorse like Fred is a vital part of any team.
 

Volumiza

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can't score to save his life
One day, one of his shots will fly in and it will be a momentous occasion :lol:

I agree with all of your post and for me, Fred is one of the first names on the teamsheet and genuinely one of my favourite United players in years. He brings so much to our best performances and has been one of our most consistent performers really over the last 12 months and, like you, I struggle to understand the hate he gets on here. To me, he's one of the most likeable players in our squad. 100% effort every single match.
 

Redfrog

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Had a 4, a 5 and a 6 goal season but other than that the rest were 0s, 1s and 2s like Fred sure
I am not comparing quality of the players mate. I believe a Carrick like player is what we need in midfield. Someone who can pass and read the game, gave us tempo. Will be perfect alongside Fred and Bruno.

To be honest, what stopped Carrick to score more for us was his role in the team.

Sure, Fred should score a bit as he is more box to box...
 

simplyared

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What is a pressing stat. He can huff and puff all game but still prone (not only him) to basic errors.
Can he shoot - No
First touch good - No
Tackles- Prone to cards
Sideways ping pass under zero pressure - 10/10

Simply cannot see what the guy brings to the team.
You are spot on with this! Exactly my thoughts about a player who brings nothing to the table yet continues getting glorified by so many on here.
 

Ekeke

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I am not comparing quality of the players mate. I believe a Carrick like player is what we need in midfield. Someone who can pass and read the game, gave us tempo. Will be perfect alongside Fred and Bruno.

To be honest, what stopped Carrick to score more for us was his role in the team.

Sure, Fred should score a bit as he is more box to box...
I know. I just thought Keane was a weird one because he scored quite a lot. Carrick did have plenty of seasons where he scored 0 or 2 goals which is what Fred has done for us, so seems a better mention
 

dal

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Fred is a key member of the squad.

Once we replace Pogba with a proper attacker and Matic with a proper DM.

We will sparkle.
 

Ace

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I will be so disappointed if he is in the lineup against City. Keep him fresh for the Europa League.
 

poleglass red

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I wonder how many people dissing on Fred would have Henderson or Milner or Oxlade Chamberlain or Origi in their midfields in their CL winning sides. Sometimes it's not about just finding the absolute best player you can for each position, just one that you have and can do a specific job.

I for one think he's vital to how the team plays. Brings the energy Ole demands from an #8 but also his line breaking forward passes are very underrated. He has downsides - gives the ball away under pressure in risky areas, can't score to save his life, sometimes gets shrugged off by the opposition players when he's pressing but I think the negatives can be masked by playing a stronger, more defensively minded #8 like McTominay alongside him.

I don't get the hate on him after we got knocked out. Against PSG, I think Ole takes the blame for leaving him on the pitch. Against RBL he didn't even play. Scrollback before the PSG game and it was all sunshine and rainbows in this thread. I think the CL knockout has just brought out a bunch of bitter fans on here.
Therein lies the problem with Fred. He's a defensive mid who needs another one alongside him to be effective, we've 2 players taking up the spot of 1 good DM. Fred isn't an 8, he's not good enough in attack, or strong enough defensively to play that role. What he is good at, is putting pressure on people with his hussle, but his passing is poor but equally as poor is his first touch, which means he can't be trusted taking possession deep in his own half. You mention Milner, his passing is simple but it gets to where it needs to go, he keeps control when pressed, he's also played full back very well when needed. Other thing worth noting is Milner was a free transfer, Fred cost 50 million. Can you imagine your heart rate if we played Fred at full back and De Gea rolls the ball to his feet in or close to our box.He has a great attitude but as I said he's a 50 million pound player who people are giving a byball to re his passing and 1st touch as he gets stuck in. Shouldn't we be expecting more return from a 50 mill player than that.....
 

Volumiza

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I will be so disappointed if he is in the lineup against City. Keep him fresh for the Europa League.
Whereas I will be very disappointed if he's not in the starting 11 :)

The Prem is more important for me and we need Fred's energy on Saturday.
 

VeevaVee

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I don’t even know what this level of player is worth anymore. A fairly reliable backup isn’t easy to find though, so I wouldn’t wanna sell him for anything reasonable, even if he’s not great.
 

elnorte

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I'm sure for all the reasons rival fans have had to laugh at United over the last few years, the fact that such a significant proportion of the fanbase genuinely rates Fred, will be an an endless source of amusement.
 

city-puma

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It’s unbelievable to read so many negative posts against such a hardworking player. Over last 1.5 years, Fred has demonstrated how important he is for us in overall match play, especially during the transition from defense to offense. His break-line forward passing during transition sometime reminds me Scholes. We actually need one extra like him in the team. I will be really worried if he picks up injury.
 

Redfrog

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I know. I just thought Keane was a weird one because he scored quite a lot. Carrick did have plenty of seasons where he scored 0 or 2 goals which is what Fred has done for us, so seems a better mention
Yeah, I know what you meant. I think we don't have enough players all around the pitch who provide goals. Our defense should provide more. At least 10-15 per season, that will help us. I don't know the numbers but I am pretty sure our defense scored much more under Fergie.
 

MU655

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I am not really sure why people are so concerned with his shooting. I agree that it is not very good, but it isn't really an issue for a player who plays in the defensive midfield position. These are the goalscoring stats of some great defensive midfielders over their careers:

Makelele - 23 goals in 793 games
Carrick - 31 goals in 691 games (His goal scoring stats were higher when he played further forward at Tottenham and when he started here. When he was dropped deeper, his goal contribution dropped.)
Busquets - 15 in 594 games

Fred usually plays the deepest of our midfielders, so scoring isn't a massive issue with him. If he was playing further forward, I would understand the need for him to score more. For me, it is not really an issue because he is rarely in the position to shoot anyway. His average shots per game must be well below 1; it is frequent he goes games without taking a shot.

Overall, he is by far the safest of our central midfielders. He gets dispossessed the least; has the highest pass completion percentage; the best presser in the team; has the best interception stats of our midfielders. I think the limitations of his partner is more of the issue in midfield. Pogba (though he has scored some good goals recently) has consistently shown he is not suited to the role and looks like he is leaving anyway. Mctominay is just far too limited for the first team; his passing ability is not up to scratch.