He doesn't have to be as good as kante but he provides the same for us. He covers the pitch really well and disrupts the other team.Compared with Kante
feck me
Fred’s value
- Thread starter ThinkTank@Cafe
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
His strength to keep the ball between two Southampton players and then release AWB prior to the Cavani cross for the first goal was brilliant. His tenacity is a building block of the current side.
Makelele was a hard working little player who wasn’t a playmaker. Nobody is arguing Fred is better or on level with Makelele but their styles, roles and attitude are similar. Makelele being criminally underrated is also well known. Bringing Anderson in discussion was completely ungrounded and only based on your memories of a couple after match Caf discussions (CL semis with Arsenal to be exact). Try to put more efforts when bashing people around.
Giving away that freekick on the edge of the box was silly and needless.
Surely our players were instructed not to foul at the edge of the box, knowing the threat faced by Ward Prowse.
Surely our players were instructed not to foul at the edge of the box, knowing the threat faced by Ward Prowse.
Players like McTominay and Fred are rarely going to be 8/10 or 9/10 but will consistently be 7/10 and do a lot of things that go unnoticed because they’re not YouTube highlight reel things.
Players like that are needed as seen with the likes of Irwin, Butt, Carrick, Hargreaves, the Neville’s, Ole, Pallister and so on. I’d happily move Pogba on to the highest bidder and let Matic go then bring in a pure defensive midfielder as I think one alongside either Fred or McTominay with Fernandes or VDB ahead is the way to go.
Players like that are needed as seen with the likes of Irwin, Butt, Carrick, Hargreaves, the Neville’s, Ole, Pallister and so on. I’d happily move Pogba on to the highest bidder and let Matic go then bring in a pure defensive midfielder as I think one alongside either Fred or McTominay with Fernandes or VDB ahead is the way to go.
It was probably avoidable, but given his role in this setup, I am inclined to disregard. He has performed better in last few weeks. on the side note, it’s incredible that we still need another investment in midfield after all these years.. from Djemba-Djemba days to now, we have spent a lot.. with very little to show for.
I find myself agreeing with Keane. He is sloppy in giving away cheap free kicks in dangerous areas. He did the exact same v Istanbul n they scored from it.he is sloppy at times as we know with his passes and losing the ball in dangerous areas. I like his energy though,I just feel a better version of him is needed to get to the next level.
What we wouldn't give for a prime Makalele.
This,.
He was so good in that second half and has been for good while now (excepting the poor foul for the free kick), gives us energy and if he could just cut out those poor touches / passes which lead to possession turnovers in our third he would be up there with the best in the league.
He’s not good enough
I personally think he is better than players Gundogan and maybe even Rodri.
I feel like there is this need for every player to be De Byrune or C Ronaldo in our team.
We only have Bruno Fernandes who is at a very high level every match no matter the performance level - if we can get a few more players like that; players like Fred are still useful for an overall balanced squad.
I feel like there is this need for every player to be De Byrune or C Ronaldo in our team.
We only have Bruno Fernandes who is at a very high level every match no matter the performance level - if we can get a few more players like that; players like Fred are still useful for an overall balanced squad.
Great game. First name on the team sheet.
All we need a partner to him who is good on the ball . People say Zakaria would be an excellent signing but I think someone who is more classy on the ball yet defensive would suit us .
Basically a Carrick . Easier said than done.
All we need a partner to him who is good on the ball . People say Zakaria would be an excellent signing but I think someone who is more classy on the ball yet defensive would suit us .
Basically a Carrick . Easier said than done.
Kante also scores some goals. So just like when he is compared to Ander, Fred is missing things in his skillset for the comparison
He clearly isnt a liability in our team right now. And thats something to accomplish.
I dont shrug when i see him on the team sheet
How else can i put it?
I dont get a ball spasm when he recieves the ball under pressure in midfield
Ok player
I dont shrug when i see him on the team sheet
How else can i put it?
I dont get a ball spasm when he recieves the ball under pressure in midfield
Ok player
Kante's goal scoring capability is exaggerated. His EPL goals in the last 5 seasons- 1, 1,3,4,3
So in the last 2 seasons he got 4 goals and 3 goals in the premier league
Fred got 1 and 0
Think he is invaluable because more often than not, he gives us a very consistent performance, can rely on him to his job, which is to mostly provide legs in midfield to cover defensively but, also then press effectively. He keeps the ball moving for the most part and does his part in leading to many of our goals. Like yesterday the tenacity to keep the ball against 2 saints players which then opened up the space for Cavani to cross into Bruno.
A few games ago, he might not have got the assist next to his name but, where I think we scored 5, he was key in 3 or 4 of the goals.
Foul he gave away was not smart but, sometimes with players like him, in heat of game, can be forgiven a little to forget - wait a minute, I can't risk a foul because they have James F'ing Ward-Prowse because they are going off that instinct to always disrupt/fight.
A few games ago, he might not have got the assist next to his name but, where I think we scored 5, he was key in 3 or 4 of the goals.
Foul he gave away was not smart but, sometimes with players like him, in heat of game, can be forgiven a little to forget - wait a minute, I can't risk a foul because they have James F'ing Ward-Prowse because they are going off that instinct to always disrupt/fight.
Well considering he's been one of our best performers this and least season that's an interest take to say the least.
Not really. We havent been good enough have we?
Very Very Suspicious
Based on our record without him in the side compared to with him in it this season he's not the reason for that.
I am sorry but this annoys me a bit. Why is this stereotype being used again and again. He gave the ball away few times too many in his first few starts under Mourniho to be harshly benched, but since after he got used to the tempo of the league after a couple of month he´s been brilliant and not giving the ball away in dangerous areas more than any other midfielders. Just the last game you could see Matic, Bruno and Vdb to do it at least once in some "dangerous" positions in the middle of the pitch. But that´s the way we play and it happens to absolutely everyone even the best players like de bruyne, just watch some games.
I don´t even remember when was the last time he lost the ball right in front of our CBs which would be a serious mistake. But pressing high tryna play some one touch football passing quick to create an advantage, it can happen to anyone and that´s whay you defend like a team being compact, recover quickly, which I think we are getting better and better and is paying off. Fred is btw one of the best players I´ve seen recovering balls for his teammates losing ball. Super clever and quick. Let´s more talk about that :-)
Happened several times this season at the very least from memory. Pretty sure he did that once against Westbrom as well, but have to find an all-touches video if one exists. None of these resulted in a goal (or even a big chance) recently, so it hasn't really blown up.
It’s only an opinion. I don’t think he’s good enough if we want to get to the top. Hope he proves me wrong
Christ - massive sums of goals there. You’ve proved your point.So in the last 2 seasons he got 4 goals and 3 goals in the premier league
Fred got 1 and 0
Yes, more than double
The point is we arent the best, so he's probably not the best. Fernandes is the only one with a huge impact before and after
I honestly can't imagine us playing without him at the moment. Massive credit for him for winning me over. 2 years ago when we lost to Newcastle 1-0 I was slaughtering him left, right and center and wanting him gone. Now I'm a big fan and see him undroppable for us. He has come big time for us.
Fred stats vs Saints.
95% passing accuracy
Passes completed: 70/74
Forward passes: 28
Total final third passes: 22
Successful final third passes: 21
This is prime Xavi level of passing. Mind, this performance came against second best pressing sides in EPL. People whining about his bad passing just choose to ignore his progress. He is immense. If he continues this form (highly likely, I believe), we can safely state that we have a world class player in the deep midfield.
95% passing accuracy
Passes completed: 70/74
Forward passes: 28
Total final third passes: 22
Successful final third passes: 21
This is prime Xavi level of passing. Mind, this performance came against second best pressing sides in EPL. People whining about his bad passing just choose to ignore his progress. He is immense. If he continues this form (highly likely, I believe), we can safely state that we have a world class player in the deep midfield.
So Fred is supposed to be :
A) a deep lying playmaker that doesnt make mistakes when passing in deep areas. A perfect passer from deep.
B) a perfect Ball Winning Midfielder not making mistakes when tackling when many argue he isnt even a CDM
C) an energetic player running around like park ji sung, scoring goals, passing perfectly and tackling like makelele.
The guy maybe never will be perfect but he is far from being shit. The guy has been great.
A) a deep lying playmaker that doesnt make mistakes when passing in deep areas. A perfect passer from deep.
B) a perfect Ball Winning Midfielder not making mistakes when tackling when many argue he isnt even a CDM
C) an energetic player running around like park ji sung, scoring goals, passing perfectly and tackling like makelele.
The guy maybe never will be perfect but he is far from being shit. The guy has been great.
“We are Manchester United fans, you know, and we have expectations. And we don’t like to set expectations low because then we have to accept mediocrity. And if we accept mediocrity we will become pre-Klopp Liverpool and the Caf will become RAWK with its famous delusion. So we should expect all that.”
P.S. forgot to add trademark “ffs”
Not many examples of guys who have such a prolonged spell of shitness at the start of their United career only to recover to a position of being pretty much indispensable. He's been magnificent and to hell with the begrudgers.
He has improved massively his overall game recently. I think Donny presence is making him more confident too. Anyway, he's been taking more risks in the last few games and he's even more useful.
Agree, they interacted very well. his teamwork, especially ability to play with any partner is also a big advantage.
I remember Troy Feckin Deeney said in a program that they specifically targeted Fred because he always needed that extra touch and was not good on the ball.
Yeah. He wasn't, 2 years back. Now, he does all the things, like one touch passing, making himself available, and all those tricks to make sure that he bypasses the press. I would like Troy Deeney to try now. Maybe now he will change his statement
Yeah. He wasn't, 2 years back. Now, he does all the things, like one touch passing, making himself available, and all those tricks to make sure that he bypasses the press. I would like Troy Deeney to try now. Maybe now he will change his statement
It's a team sport, not an individual one. You can be the best, or just very good and capable of playing a pivotal role for a title challenging team even if your team hasn't done it yet.
I think he's good enough to play in a team that wins the league if everyone plays their position better than him. Same with Lindelof. I don't think you need 11 of the best in their position to win the league. You need 5 or 6 that are so good and cover some of the weaknesses of other players and give something extra than rival teams.
For example Bruno's goals on top of his creativity, work rate and his pressing. A lot of our rivals dont have someone centrally to do all of that so it allows us to be a bit light with it somewhere that they are heavier with it. Fred is all work rate and simple passing. He does it well, but its low risk passing. And then occasionally he makes a poor choice with a pass, but its like 1 out of 10. If he isnt giving as much defensively as Ander who was much better at tracking back and helping the defence, but also got forward and scored goals same with Kante then we need other players to provide that on top of what the rivals are giving in their positions. So for the team we can get by with Fred never scoring, if we have lots of regular scorers in the team. But when you make a 1 vs 1 comparison its something Kante provides some of and Fred does not.
I don't agree with this. I think he's at least as good, and doesn't constantly get hurt when played consistently. Ander was a really good player for us who I rated quite highly, but I prefer Fred.
Where we disagree is I think what Fred does allows many other players in our team to play to their best. I'm not comparing him to Kante, but functionally the value he provides is allowing our creative players to express themselves without having to worry if they have cover behind them. In the 6 matches since he's come back into the team starting with Newcastle we're 2nd points with 13 (Spurs top with 14), tied for most wins (4), tied for 3rd with Liverpool in goals scored with 11, and have the 2nd stingiest defensive record in the league only having allowed 5 goals.
Is that all because of him? No, but I think his impact has been palpable in how it has helped protect our CBs from constantly being exposed as they were with Matic and Pogba in front of them and he's done it in CL as well, our only loss coming in Europe in the match he didn't feature in and against our weakest opposition. He's also proven to be effective whether it be playing with McTominay, Matic, or VdB, so he has a skillset that lends itself to forming effective partnerships, whomever that partner may be.
This goes back even to last season when he was dropped during the run in quite harshly, but understandably given the circumstances and that before teams started pressing us, Ole found a lineup with the firepower to simply blow teams away. That said, since Bruno has come to United, we have 2 losses in all comps in any match in which he and Fred have started together, Sevilla in the EL semi, and against Arsenal in the league this season.
Those 2 are our key players. Bruno also happens to be our best, but Fred has been rather good for a long time, and is getting the plaudits he deserves from United fans.
There's a lot of talk about how hard he works which i completely agree with. But the fact he leaves everything on the pitch wouldn't have even been noted 20 years ago, but that says more about the game now than anything else.
He is distinctly average with the ball at his feet although i will say that doesn't include the second half yesterday where he shifted the ball quickly and intelligently.
He often gets caught between playing too safe or too expansively but he bridged that gap for 45 minutes at St. Mary's so I've hope that he will continue to improve in this area.
His role is to help Matic out by breaking up play and receive and look for a ball out to Bruno or wide. He did this extremely effectively after HT.
He is distinctly average with the ball at his feet although i will say that doesn't include the second half yesterday where he shifted the ball quickly and intelligently.
He often gets caught between playing too safe or too expansively but he bridged that gap for 45 minutes at St. Mary's so I've hope that he will continue to improve in this area.
His role is to help Matic out by breaking up play and receive and look for a ball out to Bruno or wide. He did this extremely effectively after HT.
You can disagree, but factually he presses less than Ander did in the forward third and defensive third in his final season at United.
Fred presses a bit more in the middle, and very little in defence and attack. Its also not at all surprising if you watched both players.
And I strongly disagree. Fred needs a lot of help. He gets it from AWB and Bruno pressing in front. These players provide more defensively than most players in their position at our rivals. So we can sometimes get by with a DM who players dribble past more often than he stops them.
He's been a similar level to Matic who is clearly past his best. And yes obviously he's done better defensively than Pogba, who is a big risk for us when played as a DM. I expect we'd look more solid than with Pogba in a DM role with any DM in the league instead of him. So yes of course Fred helps more than him, but thats because Fred is being compared with a low quality option.
You like Fred. So you attribute any success we have with him in the team to a big contribution to him. That may not be the case however. We may be better with Fred in the team than without him, but thats as much to do with the quality and balance of the other options as it has to do with his quality. Its like if you suggest Lindelof is our best partner for Maguire. He might be - the points and defensive record might even suggest that. But that doesnt mean he's a good CB or that he isnt below the average quality level we would need to challenge for the title. Again, you can have players who arent great and still win things based on the other players and the balance. But could they be among your better players in a title winning season? I say no. Though I rate Fred higher as a 7/10 while Lindelof I rate as a 6.5/10 and maybe a 7 on a good day.
I look at what he provides the same way I look at an opposition player and would rate them. Its a more objective way to look at things.