Fred’s value

Gandalf

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There is nothing sexy about what Fred does but I am a lot happier with him in the team than out of it. Matic has a touch more vision on the ball but is slower and has considerably less energy and Scott still tends towards headless chicken mode too much for comfort. Of course there are better players than Fred but none of them currently in our squad that play his position. If someone offered 50m I would laugh in their face.
 

AR87

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You can disagree, but factually he presses less than Ander did in the forward third and defensive third in his final season at United.

Fred presses a bit more in the middle, and very little in defence and attack. Its also not at all surprising if you watched both players.
His final season at United where he, once again, got hurt when selected consistently by Ole. Availability is the greatest ability, and it's one Herrera consistently lacked. Ander was never dependable for a long period of time other than his 16/17 season when he was fantastic and the best CM in the league imo.

Ander pressed a lot, and got hurt. He was excellent when fit, but couldn't stay fit. That's not a player you can depend upon regardless of how good he was when fit.

He's been a similar level to Matic who is clearly past his best.
He's been much better than Matic, because he can sustain that level of performance over a long period of time. Matic cannot. He needs to be managed carefully, but when he is he can deliver as he did yesterday.

You like Fred. So you attribute any success we have with him in the team to a big contribution to him.
If that's what you boiled down my opinion to you have at it.
 

Gasolin

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I thought Fred gave a 82% win rate for United after having played 10+ games? Only games that were not wins: Chelsea and Arsenal. I think he's showing he's important. You need some players like him to make the team tick.
 

Okey

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If the 50m buys a Denis Zakaria, consider the hand bitten off!
 

MadDogg

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I don't agree with this. I think he's at least as good, and doesn't constantly get hurt when played consistently. Ander was a really good player for us who I rated quite highly, but I prefer Fred.
Herrera was better in the attacking and defensive thirds, but Fred's better in the middle third. That's accurate both in his pressing (as Ekeke said) and in their general play. So you can kind of say that Herrera was better in two thirds of the field, but realistically Fred is better at the more important part of the job. I'd take Fred myself as well. Plus of course there are the injuries as you note which further swing things his way.

You can disagree, but factually he presses less than Ander did in the forward third and defensive third in his final season at United.

Fred presses a bit more in the middle, and very little in defence and attack. Its also not at all surprising if you watched both players.
'Very little' is going massively overboard. In the stats I went through the other week he pressed a little less than Herrera in the defensive third but he was still way ahead of any other midfielder at the top PL clubs. Much closer to Herrera than third place was to him. Even in the attacking third the only players who tend to play in a deeper position like he does that were ahead of him were Kante, Kovakic, Milner and Pogba (but the latter two sometimes play in more attacking roles so that would increase those stats).

He's been a similar level to Matic who is clearly past his best. And yes obviously he's done better defensively than Pogba, who is a big risk for us when played as a DM. I expect we'd look more solid than with Pogba in a DM role with any DM in the league instead of him. So yes of course Fred helps more than him, but thats because Fred is being compared with a low quality option.
He's been miles better than Matic who has been very inconsistent and has probably been poor more than he's been good. I don't completely blame him for that as I feel both Mourinho and Ole overplayed him and burnt him out, but that doesn't change the fact he's been poor so often.
 

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There's a lot of talk about how hard he works which i completely agree with. But the fact he leaves everything on the pitch wouldn't have even been noted 20 years ago, but that says more about the game now than anything else.
Actually the average player works much harder now than they did 20 years ago. The fact he stands out so much now means he would have blown everyone away back then.
 

Ekeke

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Herrera was better in the attacking and defensive thirds, but Fred's better in the middle third. That's accurate both in his pressing (as Ekeke said) and in their general play. So you can kind of say that Herrera was better in two thirds of the field, but realistically Fred is better at the more important part of the job. I'd take Fred myself as well. Plus of course there are the injuries as you note which further swing things his way.


'Very little' is going massively overboard. In the stats I went through the other week he pressed a little less than Herrera in the defensive third but he was still way ahead of any other midfielder at the top PL clubs. Much closer to Herrera than third place was to him. Even in the attacking third the only players who tend to play in a deeper position like he does that were ahead of him were Kante, Kovakic, Milner and Pogba (but the latter two sometimes play in more attacking roles so that would increase those stats).


He's been miles better than Matic who has been very inconsistent and has probably been poor more than he's been good. I don't completely blame him for that as I feel both Mourinho and Ole overplayed him and burnt him out, but that doesn't change the fact he's been poor so often.
Fred has had 2 poor matches in which he's played the majority of mins, Matic 1. That omits both from their exact 45 mins against Spurs so it could be said they both have had another. Fred's matches were against Arsenal and Chelsea both in the league. Matic's was away to Istanbul in the CL. If anything Matic has been better than Fred in the league and Fred better in the CL

Edit - Also this season he has less presses in def areas than Allan, Bissouma, Ceballos and Doucoure of the cms/dms. In attack less than Keita, Mount, Van De Beek, Curtis Jones, Maddison, even slightly less than Pogba. He's higher in the list in defensive areas than attacking ones but
 
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Actually the average player works much harder now than they did 20 years ago. The fact he stands out so much now means he would have blown everyone away back then.
Not sure about that at all. Players are fitter, and better conditioned - they will run further. So in terms of actual “effort”’or expended energy, I would presume you are right.

However, 20 years ago, you would have seen far more players pushing themselves to the max, and giving everything they have in the tank for their team. That doesn’t happen much these days.
 

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The guy has a good engine and is a good tackler but his passing is dodgy and he is more likely to hit the corner flag than the goal when shooting so if that is worth 50mil then I can see why Sancho was touted as double the price.
 

Adisa

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Players take time to settle and he came from a sub par league. It is not entirely surprising that he has imoroved significantly.
 

Ekeke

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The guy has a good engine and is a good tackler but his passing is dodgy and he is more likely to hit the corner flag than the goal when shooting so if that is worth 50mil then I can see why Sancho was touted as double the price.
What makes him a good tackler?



Surely if he was a good tackler he would have a higher success than failure rate. He doesnt.
 

Bondi77

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What makes him a good tackler?



Surely if he was a good tackler he would have a higher success than failure rate. He doesnt.
I take that back.......he has only got a good engine.
 

The United

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I think they clearly targeted Fred in that game. It is on Ole to make adjustment in 2nd half.

Everyone saw that it was coming from a mile away.
 

MacarisSocks

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I think they clearly targeted Fred in that game. It is on Ole to make adjustment in 2nd half.

Everyone saw that it was coming from a mile away.
Watching Fred walk out for the second half gave the same sense of impending doom felt watching Phil Jones track down Eden Hazard in the penaly area in the FA cup final. .

We all just all knew what was coming!
 
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lsd

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I think they clearly targeted Fred in that game. It is on Ole to make adjustment in 2nd half.

Everyone saw that it was coming from a mile away.

No it is on Fred to not be an idiot
 

DickDastardly

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No it is on Fred to not be an idiot
You can't honestly say that.

That was a clean tackle. Pure football. Get the ball.
If you expect him to just be a bystander in the midfield, then take him off.

There is no way he doesn't go for that tackle. It's his job. And he executed the tackle with perfection.

Nothing wrong in my book.
 

lsd

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You can't honestly say that.

That was a clean tackle. Pure football. Get the ball.
If you expect him to just be a bystander in the midfield, then take him off.

There is no way he doesn't go for that tackle. It's his job. And he executed the tackle with perfection.

Nothing wrong in my book.

Fred is an idiot who should have been sent off in the first half anything that happened after that is on him. Ole didn't headbutt anyone Fred did.
 

arnie_ni

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You can't honestly say that.

That was a clean tackle. Pure football. Get the ball.
If you expect him to just be a bystander in the midfield, then take him off.

There is no way he doesn't go for that tackle. It's his job. And he executed the tackle with perfection.

Nothing wrong in my book.
If he had a good first touch it wouldn't have been an issue. It was his own mistake
 

PoTMS

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Fred is an idiot who should have been sent off in the first half anything that happened after that is on him. Ole didn't headbutt anyone Fred did.
Fred is an idiot for the faux hardman "headbutt". The ref is an even bigger idiot for failing to send him off. Ole is the biggest idiot for not taking him off at HT, despite this.
 

DickDastardly

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Fred is an idiot who should have been sent off in the first half anything that happened after that is on him. Ole didn't headbutt anyone Fred did.
I said it before, the headbutt is dumb. Take a month of salary off him. If he does it again - never play him again.

But, once he stays on the pitch, he needs to continue playing his style of play.

And, let's not kid ourselves, we all know his style. He tackles, he presses, he fouls, he get's the dirty work done. Somebody has to do it, that's why we have him.
It's like leaving Gatusso on with a second yellow looming over his head....you know he's gonna get the second one, you just know.

Everbody on RedCafe knew.
Especially after the incidents in the first half.

If you leave a player of Fred's tenacity in the second half, with a yellow card on him, and it's a tight game, and you play the worst divers in the game, a second yellow is on you - the manager.
There is no way around that. It's your responsibility, your fault.
 

Shane88

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Fred is an idiot for the faux hardman "headbutt". The ref is an even bigger idiot for failing to send him off. Ole is the biggest idiot for not taking him off at HT, despite this.
How, how, HOW do players keep doing this? Utter fecking stupid morons.
 

Foxbatt

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`it is very unlike Fred to do such a thing. Yes Ole should not have put him on in the second half and it is like Nani's red but the ref made a mistake in not sending him off. We should have utilized the good luck and subbed him. I have seen many a manager do that.
 

Robbo*

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I said it before, the headbutt is dumb. Take a month of salary off him. If he does it again - never play him again.

But, once he stays on the pitch, he needs to continue playing his style of play.

And, let's not kid ourselves, we all know his style. He tackles, he presses, he fouls, he get's the dirty work done. Somebody has to do it, that's why we have him.
It's like leaving Gatusso on with a second yellow looming over his head....you know he's gonna get the second one, you just know.

Everbody on RedCafe knew.
Especially after the incidents in the first half.

If you leave a player of Fred's tenacity in the second half, with a yellow card on him, and it's a tight game, and you play the worst divers in the game, a second yellow is on you - the manager.
There is no way around that. It's your responsibility, your fault.
essentially, Fred’s fault that Ole was in that position, but once Ole was in that position he should have taken Fred off (at half time).
 

Volumiza

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No it is on Fred to not be an idiot
Yes it is but Ole should have taken the idiot off the pitch when it was clear he’d been very lucky not to be sent off. His card was marked by that stage.

That idiot is still one of our best players though. Last night has certainly given the anti Fred brigade some juice :lol:
 

kouroux

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You can't honestly say that.

That was a clean tackle. Pure football. Get the ball.
If you expect him to just be a bystander in the midfield, then take him off.

There is no way he doesn't go for that tackle. It's his job. And he executed the tackle with perfection.

Nothing wrong in my book.
It's not just about the tackle, it's what led to it for me. Another poor touch from him.
 

SadlerMUFC

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You can't honestly say that.

That was a clean tackle. Pure football. Get the ball.
If you expect him to just be a bystander in the midfield, then take him off.

There is no way he doesn't go for that tackle. It's his job. And he executed the tackle with perfection.

Nothing wrong in my book.
I'd expect him to have a better first touch. Then he doesn't force the ref to make a decision at all. Especially when we all know the ref probably looked at the head butt again at half time and wasn't about to give Fred another chance...
 

Giggs86

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He's a fecking loose cannon. I love his passion though and I can understand him considering the bunch of cheating cnuts he faced today. His manager let him down by not subbing him off.
 

-Supreme-

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His passing has considerably improved and still by far our most important CM.
 

Zlatans Knee

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Absolutely this. I rate what he brings to the table, but this was obviously a very poor error.
It started in the first 30 seconds of the match. He knocked a ball too far and then ended up sliding through on Veratti and was lucky not to be booked. The guy is a liability.
 

MadDogg

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It started in the first 30 seconds of the match. He knocked a ball too far and then ended up sliding through on Veratti and was lucky not to be booked. The guy is a liability.
If that's the one I'm thinking of it was the same as the one he eventually got the second yellow for. Both times he did have a heavy touch, both times he slid in and made heavy contact, but both times he did win the ball first so it's a fine challenge.