[GazTheLegend]

Calling Fred shit after today's game is kind of revealing of peoples biases and football knowledge. He was one of few who actually did his job, and he did it well. Had the others been up to speed, United would have won.

This is just not true.

I watched the whole game and all Fred did all game was play some difficult to control passes backwards most of the match. He just about got the ball to people but it made them look like worse players simply by virtue of his terrible weight of pass!

McTominay, for me, was the one that was bullishly trying to win the ball all game. Fred kept taking on long shots and hopelessly skewing them wide. How people can see Fred as a player is beyond my ken.

It's not about bias, it's about asking what a player offers a team. What the hell did Fred offer today? Rashford and James had decentish games, Lindelof and Maguire were the two players that seemed to be playing the ball into our strikers and making things happen, Fred broke down all our attacks sheerly by lack of quality.

Am I watching a different sport?! How is it that our two centre backs were the ones expected to create things and take people on and all Fred did was put us under pressure?

 

[Devil may care]

Neither him or McTominay are good enough on the ball but they worked hard and battled in the midfield, which is all we can ask for the level they are.

I know I'm quoting myself but this sums up how I felt today again.

 

[dev1l]

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[Aouer-United]

Most of that we already knew. Those stats basically say he got on the ball and did some passes. Not sure what those chances were mind.

He created our biggest chance for Greenwood and it hit wood. He's DM, deeper than Mctominay and Andreas.

 

[VeevaVee]

He created our biggest chance for Greenwood and it hit wood. He's DM, deeper than Mctominay and Andreas.

Ah I missed that, was having a piss.

 

[ReddBalls]

This is just not true.

I watched the whole game and all Fred did all game was play some difficult to control passes backwards most of the match. He just about got the ball to people but it made them look like worse players simply by virtue of his terrible weight of pass!

McTominay, for me, was the one that was bullishly trying to win the ball all game. Fred kept taking on long shots and hopelessly skewing them wide. How people can see Fred as a player is beyond my ken.

It's not about bias, it's about asking what a player offers a team. What the hell did Fred offer today? Rashford and James had decentish games, Lindelof and Maguire were the two players that seemed to be playing the ball into our strikers and making things happen, Fred broke down all our attacks sheerly by lack of quality.

Am I watching a different sport?! How is it that our two centre backs were the ones expected to create things and take people on and all Fred did was put us under pressure?

Freds job is to break up play and pass the ball on, not to create. He did just that. Fred took the long shots because the ones who were supposed to create and score the goals failed at their task. Either way, people jumping straight to this thread, calling him shit and more or less blaming the loss on him is certainly biased.

 

[Mcking]

This is just not true.

I watched the whole game and all Fred did all game was play some difficult to control passes backwards most of the match. He just about got the ball to people but it made them look like worse players simply by virtue of his terrible weight of pass!

McTominay, for me, was the one that was bullishly trying to win the ball all game. Fred kept taking on long shots and hopelessly skewing them wide. How people can see Fred as a player is beyond my ken.

It's not about bias, it's about asking what a player offers a team. What the hell did Fred offer today? Rashford and James had decentish games, Lindelof and Maguire were the two players that seemed to be playing the ball into our strikers and making things happen, Fred broke down all our attacks sheerly by lack of quality.

Am I watching a different sport?! How is it that our two centre backs were the ones expected to create things and take people on and all Fred did was put us under pressure?

Think you should rewatch the game in all honesty. Maguire spent most of the time slowing down play. Fred was our only player that turned up today, and he was very good bringing the ball forward and getting the ball to our wide players. He created our biggest chance for Greenwood too.

 

[M Bison]

Fred was one of few who had a decent game, if Pogba had turned in that performance we'd be singing his praises but its Fred so it doesnt fit the norm.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

I watched the whole game and all Fred did all game was play some difficult to control passes backwards most of the match. He just about got the ball to people but it made them look like worse players simply by virtue of his terrible weight of pass!

I think this is a problem with most of our players, to be honest. Almost every simple pass are either wobbly, a meter off-target, or hard/soft. I can't see the same problem with any other premier league team. Sure, there are players at the other teams that are not good at this either, but not a majority of the players in the team.

The biggest issue with Fred is not his inaccurate passing since the passes he plays that are miles of the target, are forward passes. The most obvious issue with him is his first touch. He has to adjust his body or the ball every time because the ball never goes where he anticipates or wants the first touch to go. Leading him to need more time to control the ball, put under pressure, creating dangerous situations and makes it in general more difficult for him to make good passes.

 

[Canagel]

His deep passing would've been deadly if only we didn't have two passengers at #10.

 

[settembrini]

Another good game from him. Did his usual solid defensive shift and was our best passer. His shooting sucked but everyone knows he's a bad attacker.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Must have watching a different game, I thought he was crap.

 

[red woppit]

So many posters just dislike this guy, and whatever he does won't change their minds, he could have an absolutely brilliant game, and they would still highlight his one missed tackle or one misplaced pass, yes he is not perfect, and long term I don't think he is the answer to our midfield, but credit where it is due, he had a good game today, and he wasn't the only one who mishit a pass in those poor conditions. These last few matches he has done well.

 

[nimic]

I find it pretty amazing that some people have this impression that Fred is somehow constantly unfairly maligned, and that he's some sort of eternal scapegoat. Particularly considering that last season everyone was clamouring for him to be played more, and his absence almost turned him into the presumed solution to our problems. First Mourinho and then Solskjær were both heavily criticized for not giving him a chance. He's unfairly blamed at times, but so is every other player.

I don't have anything against him, it's just that he's not a very good player. If he's starting games for Manchester United, something is wrong. The same can be said for several other players, so it's not like he's the sole cause of our problems.

 

[Bobcat]

So many posters just dislike this guy, and whatever he does won't change their minds, he could have an absolutely brilliant game, and they would still highlight his one missed tackle or one misplaced pass, yes he is not perfect, and long term I don't think he is the answer to our midfield, but credit where it is due, he had a good game today, and he wasn't the only one who mishit a pass in those poor conditions. These last few matches he has done well.

I dont dislike him. I just dont think hes any good. The only player i actually dislike in this current team is Lindgaard, but thats because hes shite AND hes trying to make his name into some kind of brand which i just find distasteful considering little he contributes on the field

I find it pretty amazing that some people have this impression that Fred is somehow constantly unfairly maligned, and that he's some sort of eternal scapegoat. Particularly considering that last season everyone was clamouring for him to be played more, and his absence almost turned him into the presumed solution to our problems. First Mourinho and then Solskjær were both heavily criticized for not giving him a chance. He's unfairly blamed at times, but so is every other player.

I don't have anything against him, it's just that he's not a very good player. If he's starting games for Manchester United, something is wrong. The same can be said for several other players, so it's not like he's the sole cause of our problems.

This. Hes an alright ball winner, but hes a complete liability when we have the ball. Constantly today we were forced to hit long from defense because he and Scott were not available, and when he did show for the ball, he just passed it straight back or squared it out to AWB and left the responsibility to him.

This was by no means his worst match for us, but if these kind of performances are considered "good", then thats a very low bar to clear for a Man Utd midfielder

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Think he was the best of the lot. Broke up a lot of their movement in the first half and tried to get the ball forward. A lot worse in the second but still our best midfielder today.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

His shooting sucked but everyone knows he's a bad attacker.

Which doesn’t help when he can’t defend or pass accurately either.

Very good at waving to the crowd and having multiple weddings - so it’s not all bad.

 

[T_Model101]

So many posters just dislike this guy, and whatever he does won't change their minds, he could have an absolutely brilliant game, and they would still highlight his one missed tackle or one misplaced pass, yes he is not perfect, and long term I don't think he is the answer to our midfield, but credit where it is due, he had a good game today, and he wasn't the only one who mishit a pass in those poor conditions. These last few matches he has done well.

Welcome to agenda Cafe

 

[Imperator]

Fred is not a Manchester United player in any sense but the literal sense, and he never will be. But in terms of rating his performance in this match, he was probably the best player on the pitch (in a Utd shirt).

 

[settembrini]

Which doesn’t help when he can’t defend or pass accurately either.

He can both defend and pass accurately. Yesterday he did a good amount of defensive work like normal and was our best passer on top of that.

 

[RedIan]

I dont rate him, hes in the team because we don't have any other opinions atm. He did ok yesterday, he runs around trying his best to defend attacks. Make plenty of short neat passes mostly back or sideward and Shoots wildly most games. The sooner we buy some quality worthy of our great club and ship him and pereira out the better.

 

[FrankDrebin]

The best of a mind-numbing mediocre bunch.
Says it all.

 

[Grande]

Fred is no Pogba, then again, Pogba is no Fred (and 50% of the time no Pogba either). Fred did very well his main tasks yesterday, I thought. Moved well to close space (he had extra space to cover because of Rashfords position), won a lot of balls or at least slowed their players, did well with the ball from deep in tight spaces, and played mostly good passes higher up the pitch (a bit more hit and miss there). McTom had an unusual weak performance, and Young was up and down, so Fred doing the simple things well was really important.

Then it’s frustrating he gets three very good finishing opportunities and is nowhere near a mediocre finish even. But given his role today, I’m more inclined to give him credit for getting in the positions than to slag him off for bad finishing. 7 out of 10 performance for me.

 

[thepolice123]

He was clearly our best player yesterday. Took a few pot shots because there wasn’t any movement up front.

 

[Tarrou]

Thought he was good by his own standards

Shame McT had a bit of a stinker

 

[Drainy]

He was clearly our best player yesterday. Took a few pot shots because there wasn’t any movement up front.

No options because Bournemouth knew they could let him have the ball with time and space and block off the options instead because he doesn't have the ability to really threaten.

 

[thepolice123]

No options because Bournemouth knew they could let him have the ball with time and space and block off the options instead because he doesn't have the ability to really threaten.

What’s your point? It was clear from day 1 Fred is not the type of player who can provide attacking impetus, why should we expect anything more in the match when the team has already parked the bus. He did his job which is to win back the ball and maintain possession.

 

[Litch]

Fred may not be the answer but the question of what is cause the owners, CEO, the Manager and 50% of the other players who have been in this league a lot longer. He is the least of our problems and you have a serious agenda or blind spot if you couldn't see that he played well yesterday even if you don't rate him.

 

[Drainy]

What’s your point? It was clear from day 1 Fred is not the type of player who can provide attacking impetus, why should we expect anything more in the match when the team has already parked the bus. He did his job which is to win back the ball and maintain possession.

if he is anything like acceptable for our midfield we are fecked against a low block team for a long time.

Simplified (and possibly poorly explained), and all in my opinion, of course.

In order to break a team you must pull them out of shape. Teams press ball players knowing that they can play a killer pass between the lines, that creates a break in the formation. The fewer players that need to be pressed the easier it is to maintain formation and keep the passing lanes blocked and the attackers can also be committed to threatening a counter.

Fred is guilty of making poor pass selections and often getting the weight of his pass wrong (or aiming for the wrong area to take the ball in). He is the weak link on the ball for our midfield/defensive axis who the opposition feel like they shouldn't press which makes it more difficult for the other deeper players to get time on the ball, and the players higher up the pitch to create space for themselves (especially since there is also limited space in the channels against low teams with deep midfielders too), giving them less time on the ball if they so get it, or having to do more on the ball to create space for themselves, particularly as we're not a very muscular side up top.

You can say that it's not his fault and not his job, and he's doing his limited job well, but we need more from him or its negligence to play him against defensive teams.

 

[Litch]

What’s your point? It was clear from day 1 Fred is not the type of player who can provide attacking impetus, why should we expect anything more in the match when the team has already parked the bus. He did his job which is to win back the ball and maintain possession.

Somehow people are criticising players for things that they weren't before they got here. Reading now that people are saying Harry is too slow, did they think he was fast before he got here? The transference of people's disappointment always seems to land at certain players feet. What was interesting, on the worst signings of a decade Fred was in many people's top 5 yet, there was no Felliani. Fred stick in there, you'll get some respite cause the vultures are starting to circle around Harry...

 

[Litch]

if he is anything like acceptable for our midfield we are fecked against a low block team for a long time.

Simplified (and possibly poorly explained), and all in my opinion, of course.

In order to break a team you must pull them out of shape. Teams press ball players knowing that they can play a killer pass between the lines, that creates a break in the formation. The fewer players that need to be pressed the easier it is to maintain formation and keep the passing lanes blocked and the attackers can also be committed to threatening a counter.

Fred is guilty of making poor pass selections and often getting the weight of his pass wrong (or aiming for the wrong area to take the ball in). He is the weak link on the ball for our midfield/defensive axis who the opposition feel like they shouldn't press which makes it more difficult for the other deeper players to get time on the ball, and the players higher up the pitch to create space for themselves (especially since there is also limited space in the channels against low teams with deep midfielders too), giving them less time on the ball if they so get it, or having to do more on the ball to create space for themselves, particularly as we're not a very muscular side up top.

You can say that it's not his fault and not his job, and he's doing his limited job well, but we need more from him or its negligence to play him against defensive teams.

Thought that's the managers job.....?

 

[Drainy]

Thought that's the managers job.....?

It is, but we also have limited options which is the collective responsibility of many people at the club.

Matic is too slow, Pogba is injured (and/or wants to leave), Garner is very young and untested, Andreas isn't really a midfielder. Fred is unfortunately the best option available, but just isn't good enough on the ball against the majority of systems that teams deploy.

It should be being addressed in the transfer market. Or as I said, it is negligent.

 

[Litch]

It is, but we also have limited options which is the collective responsibility of many people at the club.

Matic is too slow, Pogba is injured (and/or wants to leave), Garner is very young and untested, Andreas isn't really a midfielder. Fred is unfortunately the best option available, but just isn't good enough on the ball against the majority of systems that teams deploy.

It should be being addressed in the transfer market. Or as I said, it is negligent.

But that's still the managers issue. Surely it's for him to find a system that negates the issues, isn't that what good managers do? Also what your suggesting is like saying, Fred needs to score more goals, isn't that on Rashford and Martial? Not sure what you do as a job but it's like asking the plumber to be an electrician. I'm sure he could wire a plug but not re-wire a house....

 

[TwoSheds]

He was fine but limited. As so often. Now if we had a quality no.10 you might not care that he and McTominay are a bit limited, but the other alternative is just to get an actual baller in the midfield who can do his defensive duties but also create something. A DLP sort of player. I couldn't say who that should be (some good young Italian midfielders knocking around it seems), but that would be an obvious upgrade to our squad IMO. Fred is a squad player to my mind but I do quite like him, just not as much as I like McTominay.

 

[izec]

He doesnt get any help from his teammates as well to be fair. He is not Roy Keane that can transform a midfield on his own. He can be a good supporting midfielder, but if the team is struggling, he isnt the one to look up to. At least he tries, but our heterogeneous team and shape is making him look worse.

 

[Litch]

Feck me, the little fecker took a load of stick from Jose, came into an absolutely toxic dressing room playing the most tumescent football, barely kicked a ball and when he did either looked nervous or was trying too hard amounting to a series of mistakes compounding the pressure. Did himself no favours with wedding plans during a pre-season which clearly he needed given he was struggling to adapt to new country, team, league, culture.....

Yet start of this season, clearly trying to make it work and prove he's good enough to be here when others have looked to move or just pick up their money. Whilst Pogs with world class talent chooses when to turn up, this little fecker leaves absolutely everything on the pitch. Workrate, fighting, contesting every ball and situation whilst he doesn't always win it, puts people off and someone then often does. I actually think he's a better player than people give credit for and people are still fixed on what he was like when he first came but that said, if others applied themselves like him and Scott to give everything for the team, we would not be in the position we are in.

 

[Old Ma Crow]

When he wants to pass forward to forwards making runs, but they don’t and he gets the criticism? Our forwards were abysmal yesterday. He needs to work on his shooting though!

 

[Giggsyking]

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[André Dominguez]

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Savage!

 

[Shimo]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...qbDCKCZVQdErtpk6ll4n1uNmt_OhJLhFKp0uKR8WXpcrs

I thought he had a pretty good game. Had avoided this thread as expected people pile on him for the loss, glad to see wasn't the case for the most part.

Other good thing about him on the day is he stood up for Martial or at least wasn't going to let Bournmouth bully us