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2019-20 Performances


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jamesjimmybyrondean

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We were 2-0 down, Pogba when shit can still do things. Fred needs to be having his best game to do anything.

You named 1 game where Fred had an amazing game.

If you gave me in form Fred, or Pogba who is 50/50, I would take Pogba without a doubt.
If Pogba is 50/50 then that's not an off game is it? I gave you Pogba at his worst and Fred at his best which you said is better. Most of the Caf recognised Fred as our pots pre lockdown and suddenly he can't do shit when he's playing well :lol:. Caf is so toxic after a loss
 

romufc

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If Pogba is 50/50 then that's not an off game is it? I gave you Pogba at his worst and Fred at his best which you said is better. Most of the Caf recognised Fred as our pots pre lockdown and suddenly he can't do shit when he's playing well :lol:. Caf is so toxic after a loss
Well it is cause Pogba even on his off day can pick a pass out. Fred on his best day can do the same.

Well the caf also had DDG as poty for number of years... things change.
 

UncleBob

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Did I specifically say someone is? on the position he plays he is.
You said:
It is hard for someone like Fred as he is being compared to Pogba.

So who is comparing him to Pogba?

Stop making things up.
 

romufc

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You said:
It is hard for someone like Fred as he is being compared to Pogba.

So who is comparing him to Pogba?

Stop making things up.

Because he plays in the same position.

You compare
Gk with GK
LB with LB
RB with RB
CB with CB
CDM with CDM
CM with CM
LW with LW
RW with RW
LW with LW
ST with ST

Fred (CM) Pogba (CM)

Does it makes sense to you now?

Unless I am making up their respective positions.
 

Bebestation

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Yeah. And mctominay next to fred works quite well tbh. Definitely good enough to be useful squad players. It doesn't work to mix them though. Fred and McTominay behind Bruno or Pogba, or matic behind Bruno and Pogba. That's what the combinations should be with what we have.
That's how I see it.

I rate Mctomminay playing his high tempo game quite highly but I'm unsure if he can do the settled down role as a CDM that requires anticipation and understanding to balance out a midfield of Pogba and Bruno Fernandes. I think we need a pure defensive minded midfielder to even such a creative midfield setup & so far Matic has been great doing that.

On the other hand Mctomminay and Fred together are great together because they kind of do similar things but on both left and right axes to make opposition midfielders feels like theirs no space to play freely - very box to box in their defensive and attacking play.

I was surprised Ole played Matic next to Fred especially since Matic is someone who we could use fresh in the Premier league - However, we did see Mctomminay play with Bruno and Pogba in the last match so maybe he is trying something new right at the end of the season which is a tad confusing.
 

UncleBob

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Because he plays in the same position.

You compare
Gk with GK
LB with LB
RB with RB
CB with CB
CDM with CDM
CM with CM
LW with LW
RW with RW
LW with LW
ST with ST

Fred (CM) Pogba (CM)

Does it makes sense to you now?

Unless I am making up their respective positions.
:lol: So no one is actually comparing them then.
 

romufc

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:lol: So no one is actually comparing them then.

Have I said fans are comparing him to Fred?

It is hard for someone like Fred as he is being compared to Pogba.

Just like Martial is being compared to RVP, RVN and other strikers that have played for the club in that position, Fred is compared to Pogba.

When chosing the team, you look at players in the position.

Gk - DDG over Romero
RB - AWB over Dalot
LB - SHaw over Williams

You compare players to see which one suits. In the same way Fred is compared to Pogba.

In the position they both play, they are compared and Pogba is better hence it is hard for Fred as he is a different type of player.

Clearly you have trouble reading.
 

UncleBob

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Have I said fans are comparing him to Fred?

It is hard for someone like Fred as he is being compared to Pogba.

Just like Martial is being compared to RVP, RVN and other strikers that have played for the club in that position, Fred is compared to Pogba.

When chosing the team, you look at players in the position.

Gk - DDG over Romero
RB - AWB over Dalot
LB - SHaw over Williams

You compare players to see which one suits. In the same way Fred is compared to Pogba.

In the position they both play, they are compared and Pogba is better hence it is hard for Fred as he is a different type of player.

Clearly you have trouble reading.
https://www.google.com/search?q=def.....69i57j0l7.2215j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Hope this helps.
 

E-mal

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I have nothing against him but if we where to add a starting CDM, then we will have Scott and Fred as back ups for pogba. That is overkill for me and selling one of them frees up fund and wages to get a CDM.
We have to be absolutely sure though that whomever we get is press resistant because this team needs it.


Fred suffers alot from non Regular play time and he is not good enough for a starting spot.
 

UncleBob

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I hope you understand the meaning of it now...

In your dictionary, what position in the team should Fred play?
:lol:

I still have absolutely no idea whatsoever how you've managed to come to the conclusion that Fred is being compared with Pogba because they both play in a similar position. Since you still haven't been able to quote someonel, i can only assume that, thankfully, no one is daft enough to actualle compare them as they sure as shit are two very different players.

I can only hope that the majority will have the common sense to see that players serve different purposes, and that even though they might play in similar positions, they can have completely different roles and comparisons are made between players with similar attributes and not the fecking position.
 

thomas porter

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I think Fred needs to play regularly to be in form especially with his style of play at his best being an all action style.

What i would like to see more of is a midfield 3 of Fred, Pogba, and Bruno. In the big games I feel like we absolutely will need a ball winner in midfield and Matic simple doesn't offer that and McTominay imo is not good enough.
 

M16Red

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Fecking madness the way some people in this thread are trying to rewrite history so they can pretend they were right all along about him, after he shoved their past criticism right up their arses in a season where he’s been one of our best players. Weirdos.
This.

That game against City he was fantastic.
 

The Irish Connection

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It’s a shame how things seem to have gone backwards for him and mctominay since the restart. I still think he is a good player and just needs games to build momentum again.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Fred seems to be low on confidence hopefully we see him back to the level he was at before lockdown for the EL because we're going to need him.
 

simplyared

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Fecking madness the way some people in this thread are trying to rewrite history so they can pretend they were right all along about him, after he shoved their past criticism right up their arses in a season where he’s been one of our best players. Weirdos.
Pretending??? No chance! If you believe he's been one of our best players this season then the others must have been pretty crap.
 

Sandikan

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Fecking madness the way some people in this thread are trying to rewrite history so they can pretend they were right all along about him, after he shoved their past criticism right up their arses in a season where he’s been one of our best players. Weirdos.
I think the problem is that he's such a massive downgrade from Pogba or Bruno.

He did well enough earlier in the season without ever contributing huge amounts, but now the picture is clearer of the quality we need, it's fairly clear he's going to be squad material, usually starting on the bench.
 

Raven

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I think the problem is that he's such a massive downgrade from Pogba or Bruno.

He did well enough earlier in the season without ever contributing huge amounts, but now the picture is clearer of the quality we need, it's fairly clear he's going to be squad material, usually starting on the bench.
I think the main problem is that people view him as a rotational player for Pogba/Bruno possibly including Ole. I've said it a million times before but he's never been that. He's a defensive midfielder who I feel could suit this team more so than Matic.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I think the main problem is that people view him as a rotational player for Pogba/Bruno possibly including Ole. I've said it a million times before but he's never been that. He's a defensive midfielder who I feel could suit this team more so than Matic.
His best performance since the restart was when he came on for Matic against Bournemouth. I seem to be the only one that remembers that cameo

 

Sandikan

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I think the main problem is that people view him as a rotational player for Pogba/Bruno possibly including Ole. I've said it a million times before but he's never been that. He's a defensive midfielder who I feel could suit this team more so than Matic.
Yes, we're in the strange position that in a way we look to have great cover in midfield, with McTom and Fred covering the main 3 guys.

The problem, is neither Fred or McTom can really do what the other 3 do. Maybe the pair of them can train to become the Matic role, but if they play it has to be a different set up.

Another point, is that for half a season everyone thought Matic was definitely on his way out, and probably didn't even have him in the 3 starters anyway!
 

Raven

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His best performance since the restart was when he came on for Matic against Bournemouth. I seem to be the only one that remembers that cameo

He gets through as much defensive work as Kante but has a more relaxed passing style. I'm not sure why people are hating on him so much, I still think he can be the answer to our DM issue.
 

Raven

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Yes, we're in the strange position that in a way we look to have great cover in midfield, with McTom and Fred covering the main 3 guys.

The problem, is neither Fred or McTom can really do what the other 3 do. Maybe the pair of them can train to become the Matic role, but if they play it has to be a different set up.

Another point, is that for half a season everyone thought Matic was definitely on his way out, and probably didn't even have him in the 3 starters anyway!
Like any player, he needs a run of games for consistency, he's had one excellent cameo since the restart as @jamesjimmybyrondean has kindly posted above but has been patchy otherwise.

Before the break we could see clearly how consistent he can be and I think if he's paired with Pogba and Bruno our play will go up a notch.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Like any player, he needs a run of games for consistency, he's had one excellent cameo since the restart as @jamesjimmybyrondean has kindly posted above but has been patchy otherwise.

Before the break we could see clearly how consistent he can be and I think if he's paired with Pogba and Bruno our play will go up a notch.
I really want to see him in a midfield with Pogba and Bruno at least in one proper half. He can pretty much do what Matic does when we are in possession which is progress the ball forward. People talk about how Fred has a tendency to lose the ball but Matic is exactly the same, even Pogba. Fred is also more mobile than Matic and is also good defensively. The club seems invested in playing Mctominay in Matic's position instead and Fred in Pogba's but it really should be the other way around.

Matic should still be our starting DM though but when we are managing his minutes Fred can take his place
 

simplyared

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If you don’t think he’s been one of our best players this season (up until lockdown) name 5 players who were better than him?
I judge a player on what he contributes to the team and what he achieves on the pitch. A player holding the position that Fred has (CM or DM or whatever) has to have certain qualities. Creativity and composure to name a couple. For me he has neither of those. All he does is transport the ball from a to b. He never has the ball for longer than 3 seconds. He's clueless in the final 3rd. He's knocked off the ball very easily. He's made dangerous passes on a number of ocasions. He loses possesion too often. He can't shoot and I can't see a goal im him.
Players he's better than :
Lingard
 

Hugh Jass

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He gets through as much defensive work as Kante but has a more relaxed passing style. I'm not sure why people are hating on him so much, I still think he can be the answer to our DM issue.
This. I think he is very composed and protects the ball better than Pogba.
 

Sandikan

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I really want to see him in a midfield with Pogba and Bruno at least in one proper half. He can pretty much do what Matic does when we are in possession which is progress the ball forward. People talk about how Fred has a tendency to lose the ball but Matic is exactly the same, even Pogba. Fred is also more mobile than Matic and is also good defensively. The club seems invested in playing Mctominay in Matic's position instead and Fred in Pogba's but it really should be the other way around.

Matic should still be our starting DM though but when we are managing his minutes Fred can take his place
Fred doesn't have the height of either, and doesn't have the silk on the ball that Matic does.

He is more mobile yes, but I'd say he has a lot to learn on the positional discipline. His game is much more rampaging around, and so is McToms.

This is the problem - the two of them don't fulfil any of the three roles we play with in our ideal system.
 

CaptainBirdseye

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What's frustrating is all of Pogba, Matic, and Fred are prone to different types of mistakes in pressure scenarios. I feel slightly more at ease when watching Fred when he receives the ball while being pressed by opposition attackers. Mostly because I think he actually manages to release the ball quickly fairly consistently. But Fred is capable of just pinging the ball straight at an opposition attacker when he's done this.

Pogba seems to frequently try and hold onto the ball for way too long in an effort to draw the foul, and gets caught out doing this when he's especially deep, Matic can be similar too, but usually manages to find his way out.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Fred doesn't have the height of either, and doesn't have the silk on the ball that Matic does.

He is more mobile yes, but I'd say he has a lot to learn on the positional discipline. His game is much more rampaging around, and so is McToms.

This is the problem - the two of them don't fulfil any of the three roles we play with in our ideal system.
Yes I'm inclined to agree. My first option would be to get a DM and sell one of Mctominay or Fred but if we stick with them then Fred is a better Matic back up than anyone we have in the team
 

Sandikan

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Yes I'm inclined to agree. My first option would be to get a DM and sell one of Mctominay or Fred but if we stick with them then Fred is a better Matic back up than anyone we have in the team
It'd be a shame to sell Fred in a way, as he did redeem himself after looking fairly poor when he was settling in.
McTom is handy for defensive games that need work rate and strength.

But I do have that nag that getting a Grealish in would be a better backup for the main two guys.

I just hope we can train either Fred or McTom to play the Matic role.

It might be eased by having a faster quality centre back signed as well.
 

OldTrevil

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I think the main problem is that people view him as a rotational player for Pogba/Bruno possibly including Ole. I've said it a million times before but he's never been that. He's a defensive midfielder who I feel could suit this team more so than Matic.
I really hope Ole has not subscribed to this popular notion that Fred cannot play a defensive midfielder role, or the even crazier one that Pogba needs to have a midfielder behind him to provide some sort of calmness and build play. Pogba does not need a holder or controller next to him because he can provide all the control you need and then some, if properly supported. Fred can actually be that perfect partner for Paul, an aggressive tackler and screener who is not rooted to one spot but instead reacts to Paul's game throughout the midfield. This idea that we have to have a midfielder whose main role is to be sat in front of the defence as a screen is bonkers to me, it is simply a role in midfield that can be shared like all the others. Deschamps was able to share the defensive responsibilities between two mobile midfielders in Pogba and Kante without an issue. The added bonus of a number 10 in Bruno who is actually a midfielder means that Pogba's offensive potential can be used even more than France was able to.
 

Kearnkoff69

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He's very streaky and needs a run of games to play himself into form. Not a great attribute to have when you're on the substitutes' bench trying to get game time, but he was a contributor pre-lockdown. Could be improved upon, certainly, but not the biggest of our worries in the coronavirus-affected transfer window.
 

Web of Bissaka

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His best performance since the restart was when he came on for Matic against Bournemouth. I seem to be the only one that remembers that cameo

I want to see this trio Bruno-Pog-Fred for another game.

Just once is not satisfying enough -- the single game showed they worked but it's just one game where we are already winning by far so less pressure and Bourne already gave up.

Wonder why Ole is reluctant.
 

caid

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He gets through as much defensive work as Kante but has a more relaxed passing style. I'm not sure why people are hating on him so much, I still think he can be the answer to our DM issue.
We kind of need matic for defending set pieces and corners, i like him otherwise. Think he works a lot better with McTominay than others too, which isn't ideal for either of them.
 
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