[Nou_Camp99]

That 'headbut' doesn't knock my 6 year old over. Its the cheating of going down like you've been hit by Mike Tyson which is worse than the head movement. But everyone in the game focuses on the player being silly. We don't even call out the play acting anymore. It's really sad.

In saying that Fred could go anyway for a few yellow cards taking away that fake headbut.

 

[sullydnl]

Didn’t watch the game so can’t comment on specific incidents but what is this collective madness where I’m seeing literally dozens of posts saying how Ole made a grave error not subbing him off at half time. Is that a thing now? We have to sub every player who gets booked at half time? That would make life quite difficult for us, surely?!?

Normally you wouldn't really think about subbing a player just because of a yellow but in the context of the game it seemed very likely that Fred was going to get sent off. Not just to the caf armchair geniuses but, also, twitter armchair geniuses too. At half time:







It just had that look about it.

 

[Heinzesight]

Ole saying he feels sorry for Fred. Pathetic. Ignoring the fact Fred was walking a tightrope, he should have been hooked for being such a tit.

 

[Adam-Utd]

People saying he played badly are just being angry and a bit silly.

He let himself down with the headbutt and got lucky he didn't see red. Ole really should have hooked him around the 60 mark just to be safe. It's pretty clear that the ref saw his mistake at half time and the first time Fred made a slight error he punished him for it.

Very unfair but Fred will hopefully learn from that, and Ole must too.

 

[Ekeke]

That 'headbut' doesn't knock my 6 year old over.

Guess this was your first football match you've ever seen. Players go down completely unrealistically in every game from much less contact that Fred's head. That isnt the point. The point is consistency, for last 20-30 years when 2 players have put their heads together and one of them has motioned towards the other they have been sent off for violent conduct.

 

[VeevaVee]

I saw a replay of that. Not much in it. Barely a foul. Never a yellow.

A yellow was obviously coming sooner or later though. He did get the ball he lunged in, so it’s not like he was being particularly careful.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He can be replaced. There's no stand out quality about him apart from running. I cannot stand him giving the ball away so cheaply, ironically a reason why people don't want Pogba to start.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Normally you wouldn't really think about subbing a player just because of a yellow but in the context of the game it seemed very likely that Fred was going to get sent off. Not just to the caf armchair geniuses but, also, twitter armchair geniuses too. At half time:







It just had that look about it.

Ah. Ok. So was constant niggle with Parades rather than big incidents. Fairy muff.

 

[Foxbatt]

he was lucky not to be sent off. Yes the PSG player went down as if he has been punched by Tyson. But Fred was stupid to move his head towards the PSG player. Once he got a yellow for it, Ole should have taken him off as for sure he was going to be sent off. Especially in Europe.

 

[acnumber9]

He got away with it in first half. The foul he was sent off was not even a foul. What more he should do? It's on Ole to keep him on. Fred can't sub himself off. Fred was always going the moment he tackled. Can't expect him to not tackle at all ?

It’s still his fault he got his first booking. He was an idiot and he got lucky.

 

[Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær]

Didn’t watch the game so can’t comment on specific incidents but what is this collective madness where I’m seeing literally dozens of posts saying how Ole made a grave error not subbing him off at half time. Is that a thing now? We have to sub every player who gets booked at half time? That would make life quite difficult for us, surely?!?

It wasn't that he was on a yellow, but that he'd been subsequently involved in other challenges that could have seen him get a second in the first half.

Outside of the fouls, he was playing well but when a player is so obviously on the edge in a game where you don't want to drop points, take him off. We had players available who could have filled in.

 

[tjb]

I like him and even though it took a while, I can see what he brings to the team with far more clarity. I also like both VDB and Mctominay and also see what they bring to the team. I think we are in a position where we can afford to sign an older midfielder who is good at passing, and rotate our midfield on a game to game basis like we did from 08-11 with Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes, Anderson ( and Hargreaves)

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I get that. But the ref dealt with it as he saw fit. A yellow card. That shouldn’t influence subsequent events.

In theory yes, but in reality that just isn't how it will go down. He'll have PSG players constantly telling him he shouldn't be on the pitch, he'll be second guessing himself, he'll probably talk to his assistants at half time and they may well tell him he got it wrong, or at least that they thought it was a red.

You put that together with a PSG waiting for the chance to get him off and it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[MikeeMike]

OK, I am not a Fred fan at all. Tonight Ole should have subbed him after incident. Ironically wrongly carded when given red but could have walked for 2 or 3 tackles before.
Apart from that, I watched him the whole game and simply do not get the rave reviews he is getting. He is constantly in loads of space, always ball watching and never fully commiting to tracking back. I can’t post images but seriously people, replay the first 15 minutes and watch Fred. Absolutely no idea what his instructions are. He literally sits in huge gaps and neither closes down soon enough in midfield or tracks back fast enough to defend.

 

[sammsky1]

wat

This was how things looked right before he was sent off

PSG had the ball with McTominay doing most of the ball winning (ending with McTominay 7 tackles, 1 interception and 2 clearances to Fred's 2 tackles, 0 interceptions and 0 clearances).

Obviously Fred pressed more and was better on the ball but it was an area that PSG had control. Their only issue was getting past the defence and keeper with a good finish.

what software/website is this?

 

[Irwin99]

I hate that a head to head touch = red card nowadays but those are the rules and he should have been sent off. Some very risky/dodgy challenges after that. It did just feel like a matter of time though.

Did some decent covering and great workrate as usual.

 

[Devil may care]

He had some decent bits of play but was very reckless as well and I was surprised he didn't see red for the head push despite Parades acting.

 

[Bastian]

Didn’t watch the game so can’t comment on specific incidents but what is this collective madness where I’m seeing literally dozens of posts saying how Ole made a grave error not subbing him off at half time. Is that a thing now? We have to sub every player who gets booked at half time? That would make life quite difficult for us, surely?!?

You watch that match and you'll understand why everyone was urgently hoping for him to be subbed. This is PSG in the CL after all, outnumbering us in midfield.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I'm sick of Fred. Get rid.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Granted I probably wouldn't accept an invitation to the annual Fred Supporter's Trust fundraiser but I do wish our number 17 the swiftest of recoveries.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Clearly PSG targeted him.
Possibly even they know he got a hothead?

For sure everyone knows his heavy consistent heavy touches and risky plays by now, so couple with those, it's just a matter of times.

 

[SambaBoy]

For the second booking, his first touch is the problem again. Ok, it's a questionable yellow, but if his first touch is good, he doesn't have to make the challenge. I'm unsure of Fred, some of his play is brilliant, disguising passes between the lines and firing them in with pace, breaking up play and being very effective with the press but then you always know he can give the ball away with sloppy passes or his first touch will let him down in dangerous areas. He can't really be relied upon.

 

[Ace]

People debating about the severity of the headbutt don’t understand the difference between intent and impact. It doesn’t matter whether Fred gently grazed his opponent or knocked him out. It’s a red card offense and as a player he knows that. It was the same conversation with Martial against Spurs. It’s equal parts selfish as it is stupid, especially in the modern game with multiple video reviews. The referee’s interpretation is a totally different conversation, but I’m sure that most of us all anticipated the red after the VAR.

Fred’s lack of quality has been apparent to most of us since his arrival. He’s the kind of player that you sub in the first half. Ole is ultimately the one on the hook for the decision not to replace him, but if I were one of his teammates I would be absolutely furious at him.

Today’s display, and the prospect of getting knocked out of the CL prematurely is what today’s reaction on here is all about. The Fred apologists on this forum are living in a different world and/or watching a different game than I am. I also live in a country where over 70 million people voted for another four years of Donald Trump. Unfortunately though, Fred isn’t going away in January.

 

[RashyForPM]

He is such a rash idiot. You would think he’s learned his lesson after giving Southampton of all teams a free kick on the edge of the box, but then he follows it up with one of the most unprofessional performances I’ve ever seen from an individual player. Gallas once said that he would score own goals if he wasn’t allowed to leave Chelsea, but Fred last night was close to that level of sabotage and screwing his team over. Only difference was that Gallas didn’t actually do it!

Also, I’ve never accused any manager of this because, but Ole keeping Fred on was nothing less than gross negligence. He identified a problem on the job (who didn’t) and made zero attempt to fix it, despite Fred being nothing more than an average midfielder. VdB has shown in recent matches than he can play the McFred role just as well, if not better, than both.

 

[kouroux]

His first touch is too erratic, it lead to the second yellow card. He also gave the ball in a dangerous area for Florenzi (whose shot DDG saved in the first half).
There is no calmness in his game.

For the second booking, his first touch is the problem again. Ok, it's a questionable yellow, but if his first touch is good, he doesn't have to make the challenge. I'm unsure of Fred, some of his play is brilliant, disguising passes between the lines and firing them in with pace, breaking up play and being very effective with the press but then you always know he can give the ball away with sloppy passes or his first touch will let him down in dangerous areas. He can't really be relied upon.

I wrote this ^ before reading your post. I completely agree

 

[amolbhatia50k]

His first touch is too erratic, it lead to the second yellow card. He also gave the ball in a dangerous area for Florenzi (whose shot DDG saved in the first half).
There is no calmness in his game.



I wrote this ^ before reading your post. I completely agree

Have always said this about Fred. He's got a great pass on him, a great tackle on him, his decision making in the split second can be excellent and his engine is tremendous. You see his highlights reel and he looks like he's got everything (other than end product, sadly), but when you watch him consistently, he always gives off the impression that he's a very talented youngster rather than a seasoned and mature pro, because he's always frantic and scattered in his utilisation of his abilities. Sometimes it comes off and he looks excellent, other times he's quite a mess.

 

[Fredrik.A]

Thought VAR couldn't hand out yellow cards?

 

[MadDogg]

Poor match. Obviously the head clash, two poor first touches that put him in trouble (he managed to get the ball back both times but the ref wrongly gave him another yellow for the second one) and he did struggle a bit in the first half in general. Second half he, along with the team around him, started to get control but unfortunately the goal against the run of play and then Fred's second yellow ruined that good work.

He's also going to be missing against Leipzig now so that's going to hurt.

 

[kouroux]

Have always said this about Fred. He's got a great pass on him, a great tackle on him, his decision making in the split second can be excellent and his engine is tremendous. You see his highlights reel and he looks like he's got everything (other than end product, sadly), but when you watch him consistently, he always gives off the impression that he's a very talented youngster rather than a seasoned and mature pro, because he's always frantic and scattered in his utilisation of his abilities. Sometimes it comes off and he looks excellent, other times he's quite a mess.

Some of his passing scares me. When he tries to loft it, it's not high enough and he attemps some on the ground that are too dangerous close to our box

 

[Giggs86]

He got a yellow in a situation where it's either a red or nothing, the ref knew he blew it and waited along with the psg actors for the first opportunity to send him off. Ole is a naive moron for not seeing that. Any half decent manager thanks lady luck for sparing Fred the red and subs him off immediately right at that moment.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

The other thing about not taking Fred off is you could clearly see he was playing within himself in that second half. He wasn't really putting in any tackles (for good reason) and just generally wasn't as involved... In the 25 minutes he played in the second half he had half the amount of touches that he had in the first 25 minutes of the 1st half...

Whats the point in a Fred if he can't even play his game?

 

[Volumiza]

Has two or three good games per season so for some reason expectations for him are set at rock bottom for the rest of the season.

You're joking right? He's been on of our most consistently good performers of the last 12 months. Of course he's not perfect but to say he only has 2 - 3 good games a season is just ridiculous. He's been an integral part of the team in some of our best performances.

 

[simplyared]

What I've noticed with the player of late is that he's introduced a portion of nastiness to his game. That together with desperation does not work on a football field. The desperation creaps into his game because he's lacking in so many departments. Not only that in last nights game he showed he also lacks any form of intelligence. Can't believe there are posters on here who continue heaping praise on a player for having a good engine, workrate, you name it, when he's so far from meeting requirements in other aspects of his game.

 

[Cutch]

Think he made 3 tackles the whole game.

Tackle 1 - Right at the start. Miscontrolled, slid in and won the ball. Called a foul for the follow through but a very questionable call imo
Booking - The heads coming together. Ref seen it on the screen. Considered only worthy of a yellow. Very lucky but ref clearly didn't think much of it
Tackle 2 - The one with Parades after the booking. One of those where it was hard to see who fouled who. Ref judged Parades to be the guilty party
Tackle 3 - The one we got booked for, with the consensus that it was a clean tackle.

Between the 2 bookings he tried his very best to stay out of trouble, was judged not to have made a single foul and got pretty much conned by Herrera to be dismissed. Probably could have avoided making any challenge, but its not like he was charging about like a madman on a booking out of control.

I might be one of the few that was happy to see him stay on. It was a gamble worth taking as we were in control of the game at that point. I wouldnt have trusted Matic or Pogba to do the same sort of job and I'm not sure VDB has played with McTominay at all in a double pivot yet. When we went 2-1 down that was probably the time to sub VDB on but there was so little time between that and the dismissal.

 

[Kostov]

Absolute madness by Ole to let him play the second half, they had him targeted and piece of shits like Verrati, Paredes were on his back the entire first half.

 

[tenpoless]

VAR? more like Virtual Embarassment.

 

[lex talionis]

Fred lost his head and Ole should have dealt with at halftime and he deserves the heat he’s taking for his managerial negligence.

But apart from that Fred has been a solid contributor to the squad this season, and last. Hopefully he’ll learn from his temporary insanity. It’s not as though the Fred we saw last night is typical. PSG clearly targeted him for a windup and they got the job done.

 

[gza the genius]

The fact that Ole refused to sub him should just prove how vital he is to us playing well. He was stupid yesterday and Ole shouldn't take all of the blame but getting a red card once for us doesn't all of the sudden vindicate everyone who says he's not good enough. He's very clearly a vital player for us.

 

[Volumiza]

The fact that Ole refused to sub him should just prove how vital he is to us playing well. He was stupid yesterday and Ole shouldn't take all of the blame but getting a red card once for us doesn't all of the sudden vindicate everyone who says he's not good enough. He's very clearly a vital player for us.

Yep. The guy has been an integral part in our development over the last 12 months and although I think Ole should have taken him off at half time, the bolded part is a very good point.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

It wasn't that he was on a yellow, but that he'd been subsequently involved in other challenges that could have seen him get a second in the first half.

Outside of the fouls, he was playing well but when a player is so obviously on the edge in a game where you don't want to drop points, take him off. We had players available who could have filled in.

It was basically a case of the next PSG player to go within Fred's general vicinity and scream like a bitch and the yellow was coming out.

The pundits were talking about hindsight after the game but I was screaming at the TV at half time when Fred came back out and I bet others were to. It was so obvious.