[simplyared]

None of that would change whether he's doing a good job as a DM in a 4-2-3-1

They play an incredibly important role for the balance of the team filling holes so other players can get forward while they are staying back. If they arent doing this it doesnt matter how many passes they make, the team suffers overall. If he makes 10 less passes but fills in for our fullbacks and makes a vital tackle on the edge of the box when a player known for shooting from range has a chance to get a strike on goal then hes played his role much better because nobody else is going to be doing those things but other players are going to make passes.

So he might do a good amount for a central midfielder overall, but hes not playing central midfield and we don't need someone playing central midfield more than someone to help protect the defence. That isnt where we're vulnerable. Its our defence and thats why we're playing a system with 2 DMs in the first place.

So to recap - our DMs dont get forward and support play much, dont get in front of the ball they stay behind it. They dont currently fill in for our fullbacks who get forward to provide width in moves and will be out of position when we're broken against. They tend to stay central trying to block the central pathways... But if you run at Fred you're more likely to go past him than lose the ball, which is an easy way to bypass that extra protection. Matic and McTominay wont engage so often so opponents wont be pressed as much and may have more time on the ball in the build up, but they'll also be in a better defensive position to help the CBs clean up in the danger areas where Fred wont be as he pressed taking himself out of that position.

Being too easy to go past is a big liability for him and almost defeats the purpose of him pressing because of the simple solution to take him on when he comes to you.

If he's not going to give that defensive solidarity you need from a DM in our formation then he needs to play further forward. And that role doesnt exist in a 4-2-3-1. He isnt creative enough for the front roles. Maybe he could be used to press from the AM role in very specific scenarios but Bruno Fernandes is our 2nd best presser so why would you use a player half as good on the ball?

Also, if we then say hes a box to box midfielder and play a formation where we actually play one, then he'd need to score a lot more often and help create some more chances than he does currently.

Good analysis and a "nice" way of saying you don't believe the player is good enough to play in our midfield. Agree with you, although I'm a bit more to the point with my evaluations of him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Believe it or not, even statistics backs that.

I bet you're one of those kids who play FIFA with just attacking players because they have good attacking stats. Real life is different, some people who usually don't understand the game will only notice flicks, tricks and attacking input, some will also notice running, tackling etc. That's better but not enough either. There is so much more to that and mostly you can tell in a thread like this who's got a bit more knowledge than others to be frank and I'm being nice here:-)

Bravo. Might just be the worst replies of the month. I’m sure it’s an attempt to show that you are ‘knowledgeable’, but you’ve had the opposite effect, and come across as laughably immature.

I don’t play FIFA and never have. I do however watch football, and have done for more decades than I care to remember. Unlike you, I wouldn’t normally judge someone’s ‘knowledge’, but in this case I’ll make an exception... and it is so obvious, I don’t even need to type it out

 

[georgipep]

Depends on where you’re getting your stats perhaps. Whoscored show Fred with 6.1 attempted tackles per 90 with 3.1 successful. Kante is 3.5 attempted and 2.5 successful. Not sure what stat pressures is.

If by superior you mean less passes played and slightly more key passes then yes, Fred is certainly superior there.

Guardiola wanted Rodri too. Being wanted by Guardiola is not evidence of greatness.

You’re the one telling me to stop making uneducated guesses. You may need slightly more education yourself.

What's going on with the "ultimate DM" Kante these days? One might say that playing as the sole DM against PL teams is no easy job...

 

[acnumber9]

What's going on with the "ultimate DM" Kante these days? One might say that playing as the sole DM against PL teams is no easy job...

Who said he was the ‘ultimate DM’? That Fred isn’t outperforming a player long past his best says a lot.

 

[georgipep]

Who said he was the ‘ultimate DM’? That Fred isn’t outperforming a player long past his best says a lot.

Kante is now long past his best? And how is Fred not outperforming him? And how do you compare them, playing in different teams and different systems? Hilarious all around.

 

[acnumber9]

Kante is now long past his best? And how is Fred not outperforming him? And how do you compare them, playing in different teams and different systems? Hilarious all around.

Yes he is. Go away, you utter bore.

 

[georgipep]

Yes he is. Go away, you utter bore.

Stop spewing bs about one of our best players, who is also one of the best in his position in the league.

 

[acnumber9]

Stop spewing bs about one of our best players, who is also one of the best in his position in the league.

Funny you didn’t want drag up this 2 week old argument after the PSG game just because Chelsea lost. Seriously, get a hobby.

 

[georgipep]

Funny you didn’t want drag up this 2 week old argument after the PSG game just because Chelsea lost. Seriously, get a hobby.

I have a hobby, going after Internet trolls that poison community forums with their ridiculous FIFA-inspired valuations of our good players. Thanks for keeping me in shape.

 

[acnumber9]

I have a hobby, going after Internet trolls that poison community forums with their ridiculous FIFA-inspired valuations of our good players. Thanks for keeping me in shape.

Zzzzzz. Time for bed.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The worst thing in this forum is that we got people who makes simple discussion into long pointless discussion. On top of that, those same people can't accept agree and disagree and decided to insult & disrespect different opinion without making counter argument. @georgipep @acnumber9 calm down both of you.

 

[Himannv]

I like how he has improved his one-touch passing to beat the press. I was concerned about his performances with the ball but he seems to have turned that around and is moving the ball much quicker now. Long may it continue.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If only he could have tackled the ball into the net instead.

Anyway , great work rate, great hounding /tackling... Coupled with some bizarre /poor moments on the ball.

 

[Bwuk]

Thought he was poor today and this wasn’t the sort of game we needed him for.

 

[stevoc]

He would be some player if he could pass.

 

[Welbeckham]

I thought he was great. Such an important player now.

 

[acnumber9]

Did have some really bizarre moments but I thought he had some great turns to make space and got the ball to the forwards quickly. And I’ve been plenty critical of him. I thought that was one of his better games.

 

[lsd]

He is a terrible player. Cannot tackle has no first touch at all or even a second touch his passing is shocking.

Has no awareness to even know when to pass or not too.

60 million for a player who wouldn't even make it in the championship

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Thought he was quite good, should've squared it to Cavani but I don't blame him for trying to score after essentially tackling the ball past two players

 

[Ekeke]

Played well like McTominay. Added far more to our attack than most weeks, driving forward and looking to make things happen instead of slowly passing the ball left and right. Leeds left loads of space and that was clearly our tactic that Fred and in particular McTominay made the most of.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

This guys passing is the stuff of League One surely; had McTom not decided to play Roy Leane for the day god knows where we’d have been.

Most underrated midfielder in the EPL

 

[Van Piorsing]

Somewhat still have problems with controlling strength of his passing.

Mixed bag Pastor Fred is.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm a critic of Fred's at times, but how is he getting abuse after that?

Thought he was excellent.

 

[Godfather]

Very good again. Could have scored too

 

[Borys]

As long as he sticks to short passing he is really good. Helped us to move the ball forward a couple od times. Long range passing is very limited so we'll need to upgrade at some point, but he's OK for now. Why didn't he pass the ball to Cavani though?!

 

[Santos J]

He's great and we're a lot worse off without him. Can't believe some people still don't see it or rate him.

 

[Lay]

He's great

 

[Mcking]

He loves it when it is chaotic. Him and McTominay were the driving force today. Lost count of the amount of times we intercepted a pass in the middle.

 

[drmuji]

He is a terrible player. Cannot tackle has no first touch at all or even a second touch his passing is shocking.

Has no awareness to even know when to pass or not too.

60 million for a player who wouldn't even make it in the championship

Did you reach to this conclusion after you were banged in the head or you have been like this all your life?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He was very good today. Don't know what some people were watching, must be still watching Sheffield vs United.

 

[Ekeke]

This guys passing is the stuff of League One surely; had McTom not decided to play Roy Leane for the day god knows where we’d have been.

Most underrated midfielder in the EPL

How could he possibly be the most underrated if McTominay played better than him and far less people rate him? Make sense.

 

[Brwned]

He is a terrible player. Cannot tackle has no first touch at all or even a second touch his passing is shocking.

Has no awareness to even know when to pass or not too.

60 million for a player who wouldn't even make it in the championship

You sir are blind

 

[Ekeke]

He loves it when it is chaotic. Him and McTominay were the driving force today. Lost count of the amount of times we intercepted a pass in the middle.

True. They made full use of probably their best asset. Running. Leeds were leaving themselves open so it was possible, but if we're honest running is probably what they're always best at. Its just most of the time teams will be set up in an organized manner where Scott McTominay cant dribble right the way through them every time he gets the ball

 

[Ekeke]

Am I the only one that thinks lsd is being sarcastic?

 

[lex talionis]

Fantastic today. Yes, we can flog him for the corner kick concession, but apart from that did everything required and more.

It may be time for Fred to graduate to Fredinho.

 

[paraguayo]

Am I the only one that thinks lsd is being sarcastic?

the 60m bit is the giveaway

 

[MadDogg]

Strange game. Had his usual workrate, had more moments than normal of really good passing and interplay with others, while also having more moments than normal of bad passing.

 

[Superunknown]

Got a lot of time for Fred. He's played himself into the side and is more than solid in midfield. I love the way he and McTominay seem to work in midfield, there's a definite cohesion there. Good performance today and unlucky he didn't get himself onto the scoresheet, too.

 

[RedIan]

Worked his tripe off and had a good game but still so frustrating how he gives the ball away. a little more composure in his passing and he could become a very good player, im just not sure he can though

 

[Litch]

Great game, Scott will get the headlines and rightly so but Fred covered a lot of ground today behind him. Thought he tired at the need of the game which is understandable