Fred image 17

Fred Brazil flag

2020-21 Performances


View full 2020-21 profile

5.9 Season Average Rating
Appearances
48
Goals
1
Assists
2
Yellow cards
10
Red cards
1
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
14,130
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
Couple of interesting stats from yesterday:

Most touches, Fred 93, Mctominay 43, Bruno 66......his energy, pressing, workrate is literally head and shoulders ahead of the rest of our midfielders.

Most passes, Fred 71, Mctominay 21!! Bruno 44. Yes, you read that right, Fred had more passes than both Scott and Bruno combined, see above re workrate.

So those posters above saying he is championship level? It's amazing how little some people who claim to follow football actually know about it. As the above stats prove, Fred basically did the work of two players yesterday. For anyone looking to point out flaws in our team, there are plenty of other places to start, Fred ain't one of them.
heatbeat of the team along with Bruno.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
C'mon what did he acheive on that pitch today?
Does anyone notice: how many times he put his fellow players under pressure by giving them the ball in very tight situations?
how many times he runs into spaces where he doesn't belong (often chasing the ball) thus leaving the space he should be covering?
how many times he makes the "simple" pass?
Someone tell me what his qualities are, what he's got in his toolbox?? A good engine doesn't count!!
What he achieved was making 5/6 successful tackles against Leicester and 4 interceptions. Only Ndidi made more which 7/10 successful tackles but less interception (3).

Passing, he has vision to find the front four and capable to make pass that penetrate through the line. He was the one who made the pass to Rashford one on one chance vs Leicester, made more key pass in that match than Ndidi, McTomminay and Tielemans.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,023
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
I don't think so to be honest. How many goals or assists does Fred have since he joined? He's good at what he does, as you say, being a nuisance and breaking up opponent attacks. But is that enough?
We are top heavy, meaning we play 3 forwards (stikers mainly, as we don't have any actual wingers) and Bruno, who stays inline with them. This is an unusual approach as most teams play midfield 3, while we have there 2 players (whatever combination).
Doesn't matter really who plays as those 2man midfield, we play two conservative box to box midfielders. McTominay has 2 goals 1 assist, Fred should've had 1 assist last game if it wasn't for Rashford poor finishing vs Leicester. I'd say considering we play 4-2-3-1 top heavy, that's good enough.

Do you think we couldn't upgrade on Fred? Again, I'm not knocking him, I think he's a very useful player for us. There are serious limitations to his game, as with McTominay, that I believe going forward won't be good enough to challenge.
Sure we could. We could upgrade on many positions, I'd take Ndidi or Tielemans in Fred place but I don't think it will elevate us a level.
Firstly, there is not that much between them and second, if people expect us to do big transfers this winter and next summer in a position we're doing ok, I think they will be disappointed.

I look at how Ole was clearly trying to play Pogba in that deeper position until it was obvious he's a liability defensively. However, it clearly shows that he knows we need more creativity and ability on the ball from deep.

For me, we need to bring in another midfielder who can contribute more in posession. From there, I see it as one of McTominay and Fred in the team, if we don't look to replace one of those with a more natural DM. I think Fred is a better footballer than McTominay, but McTominay offers more of a goal threat and greater physicality, but neither are the complete package of me. Both have qualities I like, but are lacking in key areas.
The key question is are we losing points because of midfield not doing their job? I don't think so. We create loads of chances with playing midfield which is considered as "2 DMs". We have issues on both ends of the pitch but midfield is doing fine.
 

eire-red

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
2,506
We are top heavy, meaning we play 3 forwards (stikers mainly, as we don't have any actual wingers) and Bruno, who stays inline with them. This is an unusual approach as most teams play midfield 3, while we have there 2 players (whatever combination).
Doesn't matter really who plays as those 2man midfield, we play two conservative box to box midfielders. McTominay has 2 goals 1 assist, Fred should've had 1 assist last game if it wasn't for Rashford poor finishing vs Leicester. I'd say considering we play 4-2-3-1 top heavy, that's good enough.


Sure we could. We could upgrade on many positions, I'd take Ndidi or Tielemans in Fred place but I don't think it will elevate us a level.
Firstly, there is not that much between them and second, if people expect us to do big transfers this winter and next summer in a position we're doing ok, I think they will be disappointed.


The key question is are we losing points because of midfield not doing their job? I don't think so. We create loads of chances with playing midfield which is considered as "2 DMs". We have issues on both ends of the pitch but midfield is doing fine.
Fair points, I suppose we'll have to see what happens. In my view, I feel like we'll be targeting 3 players over the next couple of windows right down the spine of the team. A centre back, central midfielder and and a striker.

I think Fred or McTominay would look a lot more effective with a well rounded top quality central midfielder beside them, probably moreso Fred. For me, when the two of them play together we are lacking from a posession front in midfield. However, when they don't play we are a little open through the centre.

It's a balancing act for Ole, I just never feel like the midfield is a driving force in our squad when we need to get results. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but it seems to me that a lot of top teams down the years have had that presence in midfield, and while our midfielders are good at what they do, as you say, they just don't have that extra spark that I think you need to play in midfield for United.

Good players for sure, but in the sense that they're good enough to get us to third, or second in the league. Will we get back to the top with them? I'm not so sure.

I recently watched some highlights of Carrick and it just makes you realise what we're lacking in midfield at the moment.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,080
Location
Hope, We Lose
He's obviously premier league level. But I think Ndidi, Tielemans, Henderson, Kante, Anguissa, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are better DMs than him. So probably top 8 in the CM/DM positions this season with Rice and Hojbjerg around the same level and competing for that 8th spot. Good not great. A bit of an improvement on last season but an area we could upgrade.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
He's obviously premier league level. But I think Ndidi, Tielemans, Henderson, Kante, Anguissa, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are better DMs than him. So probably top 8 in the CM/DM positions this season with Rice and Hojbjerg around the same level and competing for that 8th spot. Good not great. A bit of an improvement on last season but an area we could upgrade.
Even if we use your view on him, the reality is that we have no time and money to ask for perfection at this moment. Covid will put a limit into our transfer budget and Fred is the least worry for an upgrade at the moment means if you want upgrade, you can’t expect next summer because there other players and areas that we must upgrade.
 

Litch

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,183
There is not another player at Utd that people look at forensically than Fred. People seem to focus on what he can't do rather than what he can. I think the problem is people can't more on from how poor he was when he came here, and are fixed in their view when it's clear there is no comparison. Peoples memories are selective they forget he single handily held our midfield together whilst Matic, Scott and Pogs were injured. Played every game and not rested. Also there was no Bruno at that time and I'd argue without his input, we wouldn't even been in a position to have finished 3rd despite not playing much post COVID.

We have only a 30% win rate when he doesn't play but what I like most about him is his self belief and his character. He was pretty much wrote off by everyone. Ole didn't play him, he was ridiculed by ex player, said was a waste of 50m yet he's proved everyone wrong.
 

Litch

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,183
Even if we use your view on him, the reality is that we have no time and money to ask for perfection at this moment. Covid will put a limit into our transfer budget and Fred is the least worry for an upgrade at the moment means if you want upgrade, you can’t expect next summer because there other players and areas that we must upgrade.
People talk about upgrade, we have arguably the need to 2 CB's, cover at RB and a right sides forward. We also probably need cover for Bruno too.
 

Lukinho

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
109
Location
Vienna
He is probably the second one that has to be on the team sheet after Bruno. Maybe you could say the third one after Rashford. But have you forgotten how awful he was in his first season. He has massively improved and we should acknowledge that.
 

DannyCAFC

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,409
Supports
Charlton Athletic
Look at Fred's stats on Squawka against some of the pure DM's people mention as potential future signings like Ndidi and Rice and you'll notice the following:
  • He wins the ball back more (tackles, interceptions, ball recoveries).
  • He's a more progressive passer (more forward passes, more chances created)
  • Despite the above, his pass accuracy % is pretty much the same.
  • He actually takes players on (and at a highly successful rate) meaning he can actually break press and carry the ball upfield.
Not saying this definitively means he's better than either but he's still very under-rated by some on here. Don't think some understand how much work he gets through.
 

Andrew Richmond

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
149
Watching from afar here in OZ i really have no idea about whats the individual stats disclose I don’t access the sites that disclose such detailed information.

Just seeing what I watch, each game I think Fred is a wonderful player. Apparently his stats reveal no goal assists but he is truly a terrific player and I find it quite sad to come on here and read posters who find reasons to denigrate his performances which I find sad.

Fred is a really special player from what I see from my perspective it is quite sad his attributes are not fully appreciated on this forum.
 

Raven

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
6,424
Location
Ireland
Watching from afar here in OZ i really have no idea about whats the individual stats disclose I don’t access the sites that disclose such detailed information.

Just seeing what I watch, each game I think Fred is a wonderful player. Apparently his stats reveal no goal assists but he is truly a terrific player and I find it quite sad to come on here and read posters who find reasons to denigrate his performances which I find sad.

Fred is a really special player from what I see from my perspective it is quite sad his attributes are not fully appreciated on this forum.
Agreed. It's pretty tragic that people can't see what he brings to the team, I think an aspect of his game that's underrated even by a lot of his fans is his positioning. He's always there to make a tackle or interception, he seems to read play very well. I think a Fred, Pogba, Bruno midfield is probably far and away our best and most balanced midfield but we're kind of limited given Raiola's latest outburst. Once we find a good replacement for Pogba we'll probably see the best of Fred.
 

Levenstein

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
200
Fred is at best championship level and anyone with a brain can see that.
Which team in Championsip you think he will be going to in January? I believe that in a club as big as Manchester United there are definitely lot of brains around and they will make it happen :)

My bet is on QPR...
 

CiroDiMarzio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
46
Pogba was poor in the first half yesterday but improved in the second half, and Matic had a very good game, but the two of them as a pivot just doesn't work very well because of the lack of energy and dynamism. Fred's absence yesterday was starkly obvious. He's a really important player in this side.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,784
Pogba was poor in the first half yesterday but improved in the second half, and Matic had a very good game, but the two of them as a pivot just doesn't work very well because of the lack of energy and dynamism. Fred's absence yesterday was starkly obvious. He's a really important player in this side.

What good would Fred be in a game like that where the other team sit back and defend for 90 mins ?
 

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
6,726
Location
Northampton
What good would Fred be in a game like that where the other team sit back and defend for 90 mins ?
He'd have brought intensity. Forced mistakes from them and not have allowed them to take as much time as they liked on the ball. It's a trade off. You either try to force mistakes from them via pressing, or you beat them with your own use of the ball, ability to pick a pass a la Pogba.
 

Still ill

Fantasy Football Champ 2018
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
8,154
Location
Ireland
Watching from afar here in OZ i really have no idea about whats the individual stats disclose I don’t access the sites that disclose such detailed information.

Just seeing what I watch, each game I think Fred is a wonderful player. Apparently his stats reveal no goal assists but he is truly a terrific player and I find it quite sad to come on here and read posters who find reasons to denigrate his performances which I find sad.

Fred is a really special player from what I see from my perspective it is quite sad his attributes are not fully appreciated on this forum.
You seem sad, Andrew.
 

CiroDiMarzio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
46
He'd have brought intensity. Forced mistakes from them and not have allowed them to take as much time as they liked on the ball. It's a trade off. You either try to force mistakes from them via pressing, or you beat them with your own use of the ball, ability to pick a pass a la Pogba.
Utd were way too pedestrian in the middle of the park yesterday, and the threat of a Wolves counter was accentuated by the lack of mobility of Pogba and Matic. They needed to force more turnovers and move the ball quicker when they did win it back before Wolves sat into the low block. Fred brings energy and tempo to the game, and although he clearly doesn't have Pogba's passing ability, he gets the ball moving much quicker than either Pogba or Matic.

The Pogba/Matic pivot just doesn't work. Either of them would be better with energy beside them.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,784
He'd have brought intensity. Forced mistakes from them and not have allowed them to take as much time as they liked on the ball. It's a trade off. You either try to force mistakes from them via pressing, or you beat them with your own use of the ball, ability to pick a pass a la Pogba.

They were not taking any time on the ball they were happy letting us have it. No matter what i personally think of Fred there is nothing he can do against a team that sits back like Wolves did.

Thats why he wasn't playing he is the last player you need against Wolves
 

CiroDiMarzio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
46
They were not taking any time on the ball they were happy letting us have it. No matter what i personally think of Fred there is nothing he can do against a team that sits back like Wolves did.

Thats why he wasn't playing he is the last player you need against Wolves
You're seriously overstating how much Wolves sat back. It's not as if Utd had 80% possession. Wolves had 42% possession in the game! When they lost the ball they dropped into a low block, so that made it even more important for Utd to force turnovers and move the ball quickly in the transitions. Fred would have absolutely helped with that.
 

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
6,726
Location
Northampton
Utd were way too pedestrian in the middle of the park yesterday, and the threat of a Wolves counter was accentuated by the lack of mobility of Pogba and Matic. They needed to force more turnovers and move the ball quicker when they did win it back before Wolves sat into the low block. Fred brings energy and tempo to the game, and although he clearly doesn't have Pogba's passing ability, he gets the ball moving much quicker than either Pogba or Matic.

The Pogba/Matic pivot just doesn't work. Either of them would be better with energy beside them.
Yeah, I was saying the same type of thing while watching the game last night. It's not all about playing pretty passes. Playing with a high intensity and unsettling the opposition's comfort levels is also a valid strategy in helping to break them down. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

New Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
13,127
Supports
Erik ten Hag
They were not taking any time on the ball they were happy letting us have it. No matter what i personally think of Fred there is nothing he can do against a team that sits back like Wolves did.

Thats why he wasn't playing he is the last player you need against Wolves
That was the plan but it didn’t work as what it was planned because wolves didn’t sit back like Newcastle or West Brom, they were still trying to attack which something we didn’t have in midfield to stop their counter, as a result they had 9 shots.
 

SSSSnake

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
3,578
Fred is turning into one of my favourite players. Clearly underrated on here. His passing is actually very good and he isn’t one of those side ways passing players. He gets it forward every single time. No flashy business...just keeping it simple and moving the ball forward to start attacks. Defensively he’s sound and will tackle, press and protect the back four. Surprised by some of the comments on here. A championship player? Really!!?
 

westmeath

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
1,474
Location
Ireland
What a truly likeable man our Fred is. Honoured to have him on our team. He’s such an honest lad and has understated abilities. We are nowhere near as good when he’s not on the pitch. He’ll give Grealish plenty to think about tomorrow night.
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,366
Location
Nnc
He's obviously premier league level. But I think Ndidi, Tielemans, Henderson, Kante, Anguissa, Ward-Prowse and Romeu are better DMs than him. So probably top 8 in the CM/DM positions this season with Rice and Hojbjerg around the same level and competing for that 8th spot. Good not great. A bit of an improvement on last season but an area we could upgrade.
Ndidi is a hipster option and he is equally limited on certain areas. Fred has been a better player than Kante and Henderson in the last 6-8 months. JWP and Romeu are system players- thanks to Hassenhuttl. They are quite average.

Anguissa is an interesting option to keep a tab on and that's about it. For now, he is a level below.

Tielemans, I agree would be a good option but would be a good partner than replace Fred.

In short, you are seriously under rating Fred .
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
53,080
Location
Hope, We Lose
Ndidi is a hipster option and he is equally limited on certain areas. Fred has been a better player than Kante and Henderson in the last 6-8 months. JWP and Romeu are system players- thanks to Hassenhuttl. They are quite average.

Anguissa is an interesting option to keep a tab on and that's about it. For now, he is a level below.

Tielemans, I agree would be a good option but would be a good partner than replace Fred.

In short, you are seriously under rating Fred .
Ndidi is much better at being an actual DM which is what we need. Not someone who isnt very good at it but possibly passes a bit better than someone who does the DM job very well

Its the same way we don't need a CB who can beat 2 players with a dribble but doesnt defend well. You can get these things when you already have the basics covered by someone doing the real job great. We dont have that

Anguissa is less of a presser but he's absolutely better than Fred so far this season and was good last season for Villareal too as a ball winning midfielder who can play too.
 

Dr Foo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
317
Location
Singapore
Fred is not a DM, but a pretty good box to box CM (minus his finishing). He gives us energy and solidity in the middle with his boundless harrying, tackles and high tempo. He still lacks the positional discipline and deep lying playmaking of a DM (aka Matic the only one we have). Hence we would do well to get a top level DM to play alongside Fred, not to replace him
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,119
Am I the only one who thinks he makes far too much small little mistakes? He got away with a few today.
 

Adamsk7

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
2,699
He does make mistakes here and there but for me he’s very like Bruno - you take the things that he does wrong because what he does right is so influential to our team. Fred literally wins the ball back more than the rest of our team combined.
 

100

binary bot
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
10,914
Location
HELLO
He was good for the first 60 minutes then turned to shit around the time McTominay went off. I don't whether it was tiredness but it was all individual mistakes from then on.
 

Bristol_Red_87

Full Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
441
Half? More like completely empty. With the utmost respect, that just reads like you have an agenda....
you love an agenda shout so I see!

For the record, he was fantastic first half tonight and equally as poor second.

So there's your agenda debunked.
 

Falcow

New Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
Messages
1,338
Location
Dublin
He was good for the first 60 minutes then turned to shit around the time McTominay went off. I don't whether it was tiredness but it was all individual mistakes from then on.
Yep very poor for second half.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.