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Kevin is better and there is much in it. He is a much better player than Pogba when you consider all their attributes. He would have a Bruno affect on this team if we dropped him in it.
Why did you not say originally you were only comparing their Premier League goals then?
I have no issue with anyone thinking Kevin is better. I have no issue with anyone thinking Kanté is better than Fred. But with the latter comparison especially - I can’t accept that it is a ridiculous comparison. They are almost identical players to me when I watch them.
Mate why do you keep calling him Kevin instead of De Bruyne or just simply KDB?
Wait what. The latter comparison Fred and Kante? Identical players? I would actually say Pogba is closer to KDB than Fred is to Kante and by a very large margin.
Fair enough, I wouldn’t.
His name is Kevin.
Only if we compare the worst of Kante to the best of Fred IMO. Unlike Fred, Kante has actually had seasons of phenomenal levels of performances which is something nobody can say about Fred who moves from impressive to diabolical frequently and often within the same 90 minutes.
The ‘best of Fred’ being say, PSG away in 2019 for example? That’s as good as anything Kanté can do. What exactly is it that you guys see Kanté doing on the pitch, other than winning the ball frequently?
‘Seasons of phenomenal performances’ was the point put to you. Fred has never produced a phenomenal season while Kante has. More than once.
Yeah over the odd game. Even Lee Cattermole can match Kante over one game. Doesn't mean he's a top class midfielder like Kante has been over multiple title winning seasons.
Exactly. Fred can have good games where he looks an impressive footballer. If he was 19 years old I'd fancy him as the next big CM talent at OT like Anderson was. However in reality everything about him is in inconsistent and has a lack of reliable application and execution. Kante's limitations on the ball have been exposed in recent years in teams that haven't suited him. But he has been a crucial part of title winning and WC winning sides.
Key differentiation again comes down to team having won the title. Too much stock in general is put into things like that on individual player analysis. It is skewed. Players whose teams win are looked at almost exclusively for their positives. Players at a team that is considered to underachieve are all looked at from the prism of what they can do better. Kanté wouldn’t have been a title winner if he were at United for 5 years, and he wouldn’t be seen as good as he is, and my view on that won’t change as a result of any debate, so I’ll leave it here.
He'd have been better than Fred though and would be one of our shining lights rather than being.. well, Fred. Thing is, it's not that Kante played for title /WC winning teams but that he was good enough peformance wise to be a crucial player for them. Fred is not even a celebrated player for a top 4/6 Manches United team FFS.
Again, where the team finishes is of little relevance to me. I’m sure half the people arguing with me can barely remember Kanté’s performances in his title winning season. Not the way they can tell you every misplaced pass Fred has played in two years. We just remember he ‘played well’. The detail of it probably becomes hazy. Maybe a couple of highlight/standout performances that stick in the memory, but I’m confident none of you recall, or give a shit about how he played at Southampton away four years ago. How many passes were misplaced etc. Kanté has had great seasons. Fred had a great season last season. It was unanimously agreed that he was playing well. But until it’s as part of a conquering team, the ‘yea but they need someone better on the ball’ always lingers.
So what about the players who played against Kante that season?
Yes it's all an injust narrative against the incredible Fred who just can't catch a break. Let's ignore actual peformances and achievements and just pretend that Fred and Kante are the same player just becuase nobody can recall a football match 4 years ago. In fact, I think Maguire is as good as Vidic and Rio too. Becuase... vagueness and why not?
Let’s see what they say about Fred if his team wins the league. May be more of ‘he’s been a crucial part of the team’ rather than ‘Fred has actually played really well in the big games I’ve seen recently’ - which Fabregas tweeted. Fact is, Fred has lined up with, and gone toe to toe in big games with all the other top teams midfielders. He’s competed well with City, Liverpool and the like. But they have ultimately been winners and he’s been losers. The praise is always from some sort of underdog perspective. But not ‘he’s the best’. His team need to do better is the overriding thought.
I said what I said, I’m getting tired now.
Perhaps. For a player who spent 15 odd years in our team, I’d never argue any particular individual game that he didn’t defend well (unless I remember the detail and disagree). But I think that having watched him for 15 odd years, I’d say he wasn’t a great defender. Of course, it didn’t and doesn’t matter, he has other very often discussed qualities.
He wasn't good at tackling, but I don't think its fair to say he wasn't a good defender
I’m not denying Fred can have great games. I think he can be a very good player for us when used correctly with specific intentions.
Well that’s a view I guess.
I said what I said. I’ve heard your view and respect it.
Ignoring the comparisons as it deflects from his performances. Can I ask where or when was Fred an unsung hero in a 3rd place team?
He wasn’t.
No one with a sound mind would say it with a straight face period
Spot on. He isn't a holding DM that shields the defence, he likes to step out and chase the ball too much. He's good at it, let him do Fred things.
There's absolutely no doubt that Matic is the odd one out, hopefully we can source a controlling type of midfielder to sit in there because they aren't easy to come by. I have been very impressed with the couple of games I've seen from Garner at Nottingham Forest and he fits the bill almost exactly in terms of the style of player we need, hopefully he's ready for next season but more likely it will be the one after, which is a shame because we need someone ASAP.
This is roughly what I’d like to see next season as well, except swap Haaland for Sancho as I think that’s the more realistic transfer. Plus if we somehow get Haaland we’d be fools not to play him as the CF in every game.
