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2020-21 Performances


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Eriku

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I can't believe so many people on the CAF think Fred was really good tonight. He struggles to pass the ball more than 10m. People have been watching crap for so long that they've convinced themselves Fred is at an acceptable level. Phil Neville was significantly better in midfield than Fred, and nobody ever raved about Phil Neville's performances for United. Putting it about a bit cannot be the benchmark for a Man Utd midfield player.
Wow. I thought he was excellent tonight. Industrious, pressed all over, ran and covered channels well, did his usual thing of intercepting and dispossessing, and kept the ball moving and switched play nicely. I really don’t see how anybody can be negative about his performance tonight.
 

jem

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I didn't have a big problem with Fred today - I thought he was useful at putting pressure on the opposition, nipping at their heels, etc. Still need a major upgrade, in my opinion.
 

Marwood

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Yeah I thought he played well.

In terms of fulfilling his role he was better than Pogba.
 

Cassidy

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Wow. I thought he was excellent tonight. Industrious, pressed all over, ran and covered channels well, did his usual thing of intercepting and dispossessing, and kept the ball moving and switched play nicely. I really don’t see how anybody can be negative about his performance tonight.
Bar is seriously low around here
 

el3mel

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Much better showing than his last few awful performances at least. Definitely an improvement.
 

thepolice123

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Same Fred. Did ok with the hassling and tackling but poor passing and composure.

We need to seriously start thinking about upgrading him.
 

Bebestation

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Same sh*t. People going to talk about how they loved and should target Bissouma in the next few months when our player plays better.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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This was a "good" Fred performance. He mitigated the idiotic passes, and even added some good distribution and carrying through the middle of the pitch. It's also quite clear how much more comfortable he is next to Pogba where he can concentrate more on just harassing whoever has the ball and being energetic, without being tasked with dictating the tempo attacking wise.

Still flawed, but people on either end of the spectrum need to get a grip and realize that he's not (terrible/world class) but a useful player that requires the right set up around him to amplify his strengths while minimizing what he struggles with.
 

Litch

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This was a "good" Fred performance. He mitigated the idiotic passes, and even added some good distribution and carrying through the middle of the pitch. It's also quite clear how much more comfortable he is next to Pogba where he can concentrate more on just harassing whoever has the ball and being energetic, without being tasked with dictating the tempo attacking wise.

Still flawed, but people on either end of the spectrum need to get a grip and realize that he's not (terrible/world class) but a useful player that requires the right set up around him to amplify his strengths while minimizing what he struggles with.
Just described pretty much every single player and how many players divide the fan base anyway? Which player plays well in the wrong set up? I'm under no illusion about what he is or isn't, people can't even acknowledge when he plays well. People then to look for his mistakes whilst ignoring the fact that others are making mistakes too. Pogs and Bruno stunk the place out and whilst they'll get the plaudits, we don't win that game without Fred. Also read his passing was poor today, 91%...absolute nonsense
 

Andrew Richmond

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Just described pretty much every single player and how many players divide the fan base anyway? Which player plays well in the wrong set up? I'm under no illusion about what he is or isn't, people can't even acknowledge when he plays well. People then to look for his mistakes whilst ignoring the fact that others are making mistakes too. Pogs and Bruno stunk the place out and whilst they'll get the plaudits, we don't win that game without Fred. Also read his passing was poor today, 91%...absolute nonsense
I‘ll never quite understand the hate towards Fred. So many negative comments about his passing ability, or otherwise, when he has an outstanding passing efficiency overall to add value to his other attributes. I thought he was very good against Brighton and deserves far more recognition that he receives on here. Shame really.
 

Ali Dia

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I‘ll never quite understand the hate towards Fred. So many negative comments about his passing ability, or otherwise, when he has an outstanding passing efficiency overall to add value to his other attributes. I thought he was very good against Brighton and deserves far more recognition that he receives on here. Shame really.
People have their favourites who can do no wrong but Fred is not afforded the same leeway. He was our best midfielder yesterday and even though his recent form is patchy he’s been our most consistent midfielder this season by some way.
 

MikeeMike

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Haters gonna hate....
Well this is partly true. I am not a hater but more frustrated. Yes, he is now under the spotlight and any mistake will be highlighted. However I am convinced the opponents dont mind him in possession as not a threat.

The Brighton goal , poor pass from Pogba, Fred covers well then just sprints back watching the ball and ignores Brighton player attacking box.
This is only an example of him simply ball watching and not aware of anyone around.
Yes, as I am not a fan, I watch him throughout games and this is a constant trait. He rarely tracks back into the box and always seems to be the guy with an arm in the air after conceding a goal like “cmon guys”.

Wasn’t a poor performance but still cannot get why he is in the team.
 

Raven

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I can't believe so many people on the CAF think Fred was really good tonight. He struggles to pass the ball more than 10m. People have been watching crap for so long that they've convinced themselves Fred is at an acceptable level. Phil Neville was significantly better in midfield than Fred, and nobody ever raved about Phil Neville's performances for United. Putting it about a bit cannot be the benchmark for a Man Utd midfield player.
Terrible comment, Phil Neville was nowhere near the player Fred is.
 

Raven

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Well this is partly true. I am not a hater but more frustrated. Yes, he is now under the spotlight and any mistake will be highlighted. However I am convinced the opponents dont mind him in possession as not a threat.

The Brighton goal , poor pass from Pogba, Fred covers well then just sprints back watching the ball and ignores Brighton player attacking box.
This is only an example of him simply ball watching and not aware of anyone around.
Yes, as I am not a fan, I watch him throughout games and this is a constant trait. He rarely tracks back into the box and always seems to be the guy with an arm in the air after conceding a goal like “cmon guys”.

Wasn’t a poor performance but still cannot get why he is in the team.
He's in the team because he's the only player we have that can do what he does. McTominay is defensively a bit clueless and Matic is slow and ponderous. If you can't see why he's in the team I think you need to try watching more football because every successful team has at least one Fred.
 

AR87

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A squad player who consistently stays fit and has played far more than you'd want ideally, alongside McTominay (a very industrious, but limited midfield duo) get slated for not being good enough in his attacking play.

Look at the minutes he's logged since the start of last season. He's been run into the ground and his form the month before the international break was a reflection of that as well as the limitations of his partnership in the pivot with McTominay. We desperately need a Matic replacement so that we can rotate more frequently in midfield and use players like Fred and Scott as squad players as they should be.

Yesterday Fred was really good. Broke up play well and his passing and ball retention was very good.
 

Ali Dia

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He's in the team because he's the only player we have that can do what he does. McTominay is defensively a bit clueless and Matic is slow and ponderous. If you can't see why he's in the team I think you need to try watching more football because every successful team has at least one Fred.
I’ll go one further and say his place in the team is almost totally safe next season. If Pogba stays we won’t sign a starting midfielder. It’ll be Fred PP Bruno and on paper that should be more than attacking enough to break down low block sides and have enough about it to help us defend too. Pogba and Bruno still really need to improve their interplay though and they are both so sloppy in possession that they almost cancel each other out. Pogbas ball from deep over the top isn’t producing as much danger these days either.

I don’t understand people complaining about the pivot yesterday when it was clearly an attack minded team and we started well enough. It was fred almost solo running the middle and allowing Pogba to get forward whenever he wanted, we weren’t under any pressure at all in the second half when our attack finally started turning the screw. When we are on the front foot Fred adds decent penetration and tempo with his passing and high up ball recovery. I would also argue we probably don’t need a pure dm in games like yesterday. If Pogba goes and we sign say Rice. It’ll be Rice- Fred- Bruno but I can’t really see us signing anyone else if Matic and Pogba are sticking around and Donny already can’t get a game.
 

#07

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Bar is seriously low around here
It really is.

People on here would have been saying we don't need to buy Michael Carrick cos Alan Smith runs around a lot when fit. :rolleyes:

Terrible comment, Phil Neville was nowhere near the player Fred is.
Yes, Phil could pass the ball over distance fairly well making him much more useful.
 

MikeeMike

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He's in the team because he's the only player we have that can do what he does. McTominay is defensively a bit clueless and Matic is slow and ponderous. If you can't see why he's in the team I think you need to try watching more football because every successful team has at least one Fred.
Like I said, the views are polarized on him. I see nothing and you see the opposite. He might be in the team because of limited options but really? Every successful team has a Fred ! We are not successful and have won nothing with him in the team.
 

Statue of Limitations

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Views may be split on Fred, but clearly we aren't getting seeing the best of him consistently enough for us to be completely happy with him.

But when he is ON, he is unreal to watch :drool:
 

Raven

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It really is.

People on here would have been saying we don't need to buy Michael Carrick cos Alan Smith runs around a lot when fit. :rolleyes:



Yes, Phil could pass the ball over distance fairly well making him much more useful.
You haven't a clue, I'm gonna leave you at it.
 

Raven

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Like I said, the views are polarized on him. I see nothing and you see the opposite. He might be in the team because of limited options but really? Every successful team has a Fred ! We are not successful and have won nothing with him in the team.
As I said, he's our only midfielder who can do what he does so clearly we do have a lack of options.

What I mean by every successful team having a Fred is that there's always (most of the time anyway) where they have a player who isn't technically as good but provides the defensive solidity and/or energy. Players such as:

Vidal
Kante
Khedira
Goretzka
Henderson
Milner

I think 'The Last Dance' shows this role perfectly when it talks about the importance of Dennis Rodman who helped turn that Chicago Bulls team from an exciting team into a winning team. In every team sport you need someone whos good at breaking up opposition play and Fred's excellent at it.

Yesterday was his best game in a while but he's been in bad enough form which isn't an accurate reflection of his actual ability.
 

MikeeMike

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As I said, he's our only midfielder who can do what he does so clearly we do have a lack of options.

What I mean by every successful team having a Fred is that there's always (most of the time anyway) where they have a player who isn't technically as good but provides the defensive solidity and/or energy. Players such as:

Vidal
Kante
Khedira
Goretzka
Henderson
Milner

I think 'The Last Dance' shows this role perfectly when it talks about the importance of Dennis Rodman who helped turn that Chicago Bulls team from an exciting team into a winning team. In every team sport you need someone whos good at breaking up opposition play and Fred's excellent at it.

Yesterday was his best game in a while but he's been in bad enough form which isn't an accurate reflection of his actual ability.
Well I respect your reply and clear analysis (without insults ).

I you read my previous views on Fred I am pretty much consistent in my view that he frustates me so much. I watch all games and re-watch (lockdown boredom), and just see Fred chasing the ball and not looking around to be aware of positioning around him. If you watch this you will see. As he has a great engine and technically, a great passing ability, I put his errors down to this awareness shortfall. If he just stopped ball watching !!

Cannot understand why coaching staff are not highlighting this, or he is not getting it.
 

TheReligion

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Fred isn't terrible at anything, he's just not that amazing at any one thing either.

Strange player. Quick example. Statistically he's the best player in the PL at applying pressure on the ball when the opposition are in possession. On the flip side whilst he's good at doing this he doesn't successfully turn over possession that well so we don't get the benefit from his exceptional pressing any more than we would have for someone who pressed less and focused more on the quality of winning back, and using, the regained possession.

Another one is he's high on the list of progressive passers of the ball with much of what he does going forward. That's great but when you look he also misplaces and losses possession more than his peers.

Finally he makes a number of interceptions and is a good tackler yet he struggles when trying to tackle someone running at him/dribbling.

There's no one area you can hang your hat on and said he's great at that. You'd think these kinds of things would be looked at (maybe they are) as if he starts to get one of 'the other' bits to these issues improved he could become so much more effective and efficient for us.
 

MikeeMike

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Fred isn't terrible at anything, he's just not that amazing at any one thing either.

Strange player. Quick example. Statistically he's the best player in the PL at applying pressure on the ball when the opposition are in possession. On the flip side whilst he's good at doing this he doesn't successfully turn over possession that well so we don't get the benefit from his exceptional pressing any more than we would have for someone who pressed less and focused more on the quality of winning back, and using, the regained possession.

Another one is he's high on the list of progressive passers of the ball with much of what he does going forward. That's great but when you look he also misplaces and losses possession more than his peers.

Finally he makes a number of interceptions and is a good tackler yet he struggles when trying to tackle someone running at him/dribbling.

There's no one area you can hang your hat on and said he's great at that. You'd think these kinds of things would be looked at (maybe they are) as if he starts to get one of 'the other' bits to these issues improved he could become so much more effective and efficient for us.
He has a terrible first touch. His shooting is terrible. Terrible at keeping possession.
His stats are great as he picks up the ball in front of the defence, in acres of space, and pings a square ball left or right.
 

MadDogg

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He has a terrible first touch. His shooting is terrible. Terrible at keeping possession.
His stats are great as he picks up the ball in front of the defence, in acres of space, and pings a square ball left or right.
First touch? Terrible is perhaps a little overboard but I'll give you that one as it certainly is a weakness. Shooting? Yeah. Keeping possession? He really isn't.

This myth (and that's what it is) that he does nothing but pass square balls to the side really needs to die. Against Brighton he passed the ball towards the opposition goal 432 yards (29% of his total passing distance), significantly more than anybody else on the pitch except for Lindelof. To compare him to the other midfielders - Pogba did 214 yards (22% of his total), Bissouma 106 (16%) and Lallana 132 (21%). In other words he passed it forward almost as much as the other three central midfielders combined. Now 432 yards is significantly more than what he normally does, but when I did the midfield stats a couple of months ago he averaged a higher amount of forward passing than the likes of McTominay, Kante, Fabinho, Ndidi, Rice, Soucek, Allan, Moutinho, Ndombele and even the likes of Tielemans and Pogba (only slightly for the later two, but quite significantly ahead of the rest). He also had the second highest pass completion rate (once again to Lindelof) in this game despite making the most amount of passes on the pitch for the longest distance made.

The stats are available to show not only what his completion rates are but also what he does with it, and they show that he consistently passes it forward about as much as should be expected. Ahead of some players like the names above (including pretty much all the players he's most compared to), behind some others. Yet he's the one that people seem to pretend only passes sideways.
 
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Raven

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Fred isn't terrible at anything, he's just not that amazing at any one thing either.

Strange player. Quick example. Statistically he's the best player in the PL at applying pressure on the ball when the opposition are in possession. On the flip side whilst he's good at doing this he doesn't successfully turn over possession that well so we don't get the benefit from his exceptional pressing any more than we would have for someone who pressed less and focused more on the quality of winning back, and using, the regained possession.

Another one is he's high on the list of progressive passers of the ball with much of what he does going forward. That's great but when you look he also misplaces and losses possession more than his peers.

Finally he makes a number of interceptions and is a good tackler yet he struggles when trying to tackle someone running at him/dribbling.

There's no one area you can hang your hat on and said he's great at that. You'd think these kinds of things would be looked at (maybe they are) as if he starts to get one of 'the other' bits to these issues improved he could become so much more effective and efficient for us.
Have you got stats to back up any of this? I'm fairly sure Fred doesn't give the ball away significantly more than his peers.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Fred isn't terrible at anything, he's just not that amazing at any one thing either.

Strange player. Quick example. Statistically he's the best player in the PL at applying pressure on the ball when the opposition are in possession. On the flip side whilst he's good at doing this he doesn't successfully turn over possession that well so we don't get the benefit from his exceptional pressing any more than we would have for someone who pressed less and focused more on the quality of winning back, and using, the regained possession.

Another one is he's high on the list of progressive passers of the ball with much of what he does going forward. That's great but when you look he also misplaces and losses possession more than his peers.

Finally he makes a number of interceptions and is a good tackler yet he struggles when trying to tackle someone running at him/dribbling.

There's no one area you can hang your hat on and said he's great at that. You'd think these kinds of things would be looked at (maybe they are) as if he starts to get one of 'the other' bits to these issues improved he could become so much more effective and efficient for us.
You are strange one talking about him on high on the list of progressive passer but at the same time moaning about his misplaces and losses possession. That makes sense because playing progressive passing meaning there can be higher potential that opposition players will intercept them than backwards/safe sideways. If there is benefit, there is risk too.

He has superb intensity, stamina and work rate that enables him to be one of the best presser winning the ball back a lot, very mobile, his intention is to make progressive passes not being safe (I remember his stats being no 8 progressive passer in midfielder in end of January), can use both feet to pass the ball, capable to intercept and tackle but not good when it's one on one situation, short and poor shooting. Every players have weakness and it's common, it's about how to use his strength and we have been benefited from his strength many times since last season to now. He's no top player but he's a good player to support the top players in the team which teams also need this type of player.
 

MikeeMike

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First touch? Terrible is perhaps a little overboard but I'll give you that one as it certainly is a weakness. Shooting? Yeah. Keeping possession? He really isn't.

This myth (and that's what it is) that he does nothing but pass square balls to the side really needs to die. Against Brighton he passed the ball towards the opposition goal 432 yards (29% of his total passing distance), significantly more than anybody else on the pitch except for Lindelof. To compare him to the other midfielders - Pogba did 214 yards (22% of his total), Bissouma 106 (16%) and Lallana 132 (21%). In other words he passed it forward almost as much as the other three central midfielders combined. Now 432 yards is significantly more than what he normally does, but when I did the midfield stats a couple of months ago he averaged a higher amount of forward passing than the likes of McTominay, Kante, Fabinho, Ndidi, Rice, Soucek, Allan, Moutinho, Ndombele and even the likes of Tielemans and Pogba (only slightly for the later two, but quite significantly ahead of the rest). He also had the second highest pass completion rate (once again to Lindelof) in this game despite making the most amount of passes on the pitch for the longest distance made.

The stats are available to show not only what his completion rates are but also what he does with it, and they show that he consistently passes it forward about as much as should be expected. Ahead of some players like the names above (including pretty much all the players he's most compared to), behind some others. Yet he's the one that people seem to pretend only passes sideways.
So 29% of his passes are forward. Then, 71% are square balls or back. Your "myth that needs to die" is just conformed by your own stats.
You agree his first touch is not the best. You agree his shooting is, well , laughable. When he is put under pressure he frequently loses the ball.
 

Grande

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So 29% of his passes are forward. Then, 71% are square balls or back. Your "myth that needs to die" is just conformed by your own stats.
You agree his first touch is not the best. You agree his shooting is, well , laughable. When he is put under pressure he frequently loses the ball.
Do you know what is normal percentage of forward passes for a CM?
 

Pogue Mahone

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So 29% of his passes are forward. Then, 71% are square balls or back. Your "myth that needs to die" is just conformed by your own stats.
You agree his first touch is not the best. You agree his shooting is, well , laughable. When he is put under pressure he frequently loses the ball.
Did you stop reading at “29%”?
 

Vaibhav Raj

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How do people watch players of the ilk of Kroos and Modric, even the lesser known players in top teams like Real, Bayern etc., how composed, precise, efficient and calculated they are on the ball and then still come to conclusion that Fred is someone who should be mainstay of Manchester United's midfield. But maybe then folks don't really watch football outside of Manchester United matches.

The bar has been set so low for most our players and it is no wonder that, year after year, Manchester United drop out of competitions and title races.

Fred will put in another few decent performances in some games, get lauded and then put in stinkers in other games causing for the team to drop out of a tournament or the run for the title. It is not just Fred though. There are many players in this team who are skilled yes, but very low on footballing IQ.
 

Bwuk

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How do people watch players of the ilk of Kroos and Modric, even the lesser known players in top teams like Real, Bayern etc., how composed, precise, efficient and calculated they are on the ball and then still come to conclusion that Fred is someone who should be mainstay of Manchester United's midfield. But maybe then folks don't really watch football outside of Manchester United matches.

The bar has been set so low for most our players and it is no wonder that, year after year, Manchester United drop out of competitions and title races.

Fred will put in another few decent performances in some games, get lauded and then put in stinkers in other games causing for the team to drop out of a tournament or the run for the title. It is not just Fred though. There are many players in this team who are skilled yes, but very low on footballing IQ.
Agreed 100%. The last squad we had that won the CL Fred wouldn't even get on the bench for. Too many very average players in this side.
 
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Agreed 100%. The last squad we had that won the CL Fred wouldn't even get on the bench for. Too many very average players in this side.
how much of an impact did Fred have on our exit from the CL and the FA Cup?

I honestly think the OTT praise comes from seeing him “put in a shift” which is an outdated way of judging players.
 

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First touch? Terrible is perhaps a little overboard but I'll give you that one as it certainly is a weakness. Shooting? Yeah. Keeping possession? He really isn't.

This myth (and that's what it is) that he does nothing but pass square balls to the side really needs to die. Against Brighton he passed the ball towards the opposition goal 432 yards (29% of his total passing distance), significantly more than anybody else on the pitch except for Lindelof. To compare him to the other midfielders - Pogba did 214 yards (22% of his total), Bissouma 106 (16%) and Lallana 132 (21%). In other words he passed it forward almost as much as the other three central midfielders combined. Now 432 yards is significantly more than what he normally does, but when I did the midfield stats a couple of months ago he averaged a higher amount of forward passing than the likes of McTominay, Kante, Fabinho, Ndidi, Rice, Soucek, Allan, Moutinho, Ndombele and even the likes of Tielemans and Pogba (only slightly for the later two, but quite significantly ahead of the rest). He also had the second highest pass completion rate (once again to Lindelof) in this game despite making the most amount of passes on the pitch for the longest distance made.

The stats are available to show not only what his completion rates are but also what he does with it, and they show that he consistently passes it forward about as much as should be expected. Ahead of some players like the names above (including pretty much all the players he's most compared to), behind some others. Yet he's the one that people seem to pretend only passes sideways.
But didnt you hear, pass stats are meaningless when used for Fred because most of his passes are 5 yards away from the player so they dont really count.....or at least that's the argument usually put forward on here.

Those who believe that he only passes it back or sideways are completely blinkered, it's either that of they dont really watch the match. Your stats prove it.

People are so biased in their view of certain players, Fred being a perfect example, when he miss places a pass they will zoom in on that and completely ignore everything else he does for the rest of the match. Yet Bruno, Pogba and Rashford can spend an entire match passing the ball to the opposition which doesnt seem to merit a mention from the same people who criticise Fred for occasionally giving the ball away. Why is that? The commentators are especially bad, they never ever and I mean ever give him an ounce of credit. In the match v Brighton he bursted forward 3 or 4 times with the ball to set up a counter, on one occasion a Brighton player was booked for pulling him back....none of this acknowledged.

Other posters say he is ok but needs upgrading, well sure let's upgrade him but how about upgrading Wan Bissaka, Lindelof, Martial, Matic etc first? And who are we going to upgrade him with?
 

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So 29% of his passes are forward. Then, 71% are square balls or back. Your "myth that needs to die" is just conformed by your own stats.
You agree his first touch is not the best. You agree his shooting is, well , laughable. When he is put under pressure he frequently loses the ball.
So you just ignored the rest of the post where I point out where he is compared to others in his position? Also it's not that 29% of his passes were forward. It's that 29% of his total distance he passed went forward. That means that if he makes a forward diagonal pass out to a winger or fullback it might be classed as a 40 yard pass that only went 20 yards forward. I should also note that it was only 29% in this game, over the course of the season it was 25% as of a couple of months ago, which put him as the 9th most likely to pass forward out of the 27 deeper midfielders I noted when I took the stats. In context ,the highest at that time was Partey with 28% while the lowest was Fabinho at 19% (Fabinho's stats were taken from last season when he actually played in the midfield).

Here come the stats.
When somebody makes a claim that somebody only passes sideways, a claim that can be directly seen by stats how that player compares to others in his same position, wouldn't you say that's a fair use of stats? Fred tends to pass it forward further and more often than most of the players he tends to be directly compared to. You can take that stat as you want, I don't actually see it as being hugely important. What it does do however is show that the claim that he does nothing but make simple sideways passes is quantifiably false.
 
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