Fred image 17

Fred Brazil flag

2020-21 Performances


View full 2020-21 profile

5.9 Season Average Rating
Appearances
48
Goals
1
Assists
2
Yellow cards
10
Red cards
1
Status
Not open for further replies.

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
7,017
Yep. It’s no surprise both looked at their best in seasons past when Matic was able to play more regularly and provide that cushion for them/Fred.

Fred was never a DM, José converted him and he still plays there for us because we have no one better to fill in. It’s why often times the McFred pivot, our midfield is combative hence why the many draws. They lack progressive passing from deep to Bruno&co. Both are ball winners. They don’t hold their positions well because it’s not their natural position; rather they are best when they aggressively get out at the opposition to harass them/win the ball.

This is why if we can bring in a high end starting caliber DM (Rice or whoever), it would allow Fred to play to his strengths rather than being given the onus of playing deep and holding. It’s why even if hypothetically speaking Pogba walks after next season you wouldn’t even need a replacement with a DM(Rice/etc) since he’d allow Fred to play more naturally with Bruno up ahead of them both. In the meantime if a DM was secured, it would give great depth since it’d allow Pogba to play there as well and start.



...wholeheartedly agree. As per the reasons mentioned, most people (including myself at times) don’t seem to realize Fred/Scott are doing jobs that they’re not suited to and yet the coaching staff and team was still able to get to a 2nd place finish. Imagine the squad potential if someone actually suited to sit deep were brought in. Yea we get frustrated at times at the McFred duo but if everyone could just take a big step back to see the full picture, you could only applaud them for their efforts really.
Absolutely. The DM is the single most important signing for me, but unfortunately it seems we're prioritising the CB over it. And while I like Rice, I do worry about that price tag.
 

Vanrouge

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2004
Messages
1,681
Location
Early '80s Stretty
He was solid again, and linked up with Neymar well on a few occasions. Had a shot from outside the area with the usual results. :lol: But I liked his performance overall.
 

TempusFugit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
16
Yet another good performance for Brazil, best midfielder on the pitch. Our fans will tell you he's shit and should be playing in the championship though :lol:
 

kiristao

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
3,938
Location
Goa, India
He was solid again, and linked up with Neymar well on a few occasions. Had a shot from outside the area with the usual results. :lol: But I liked his performance overall.
Is he playing as a DM?
 

charlenefan

Far less insightful than the other Charley
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
28,712
Didn't see the game but his performance is drawing high praise on Twitter
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
31,277
Yet another good performance for Brazil, best midfielder on the pitch. Our fans will tell you he's shit and should be playing in the championship though :lol:
it’s fair to say 99% of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about to be honest.

Fred is the perfect midfield workhorse, obviously he needs to tidy up a few unforced errors but he covers the left midfield and left wing slot all by himself.

Neymar will love him as it allows him to stay up field while fred does his defending.

there’s a reason why hes ahead of fabinho in brazil’s midfield right now!
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
7,960
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
I think he’ll get a few more assists next season. He’s fully up to speed in the league and seems to enjoy playing with Bruno. If we could keep him from being the deepest distributor that would be good but we don’t really have a choice at the moment.
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
22,730
Location
United Kingdom, England
He played very well against Peru. What we need next to him is a player who can both play as the #6 and #8 and provide defensive and offensive capabilities. Someone who can evade the press and break the line to a high level. Declan Rice isn't that player IMO.
 

-Supreme-

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
1,699
Fred offers so much more than McT. Let’s hope Ole sees that if he brings in a new midfielder.
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
2,083
See how Brazil don't have him build from the back....that's where our problems come with him. We need to let him be a mobile box to box player. TBH I don't think what we need is necessarily a DM, just someone who can hold their position in midfield ( so Fred has more pressing opportunities) and most importantly can help our build up play with press resistance and penetrative plays. It could a rounded cm like Yaya who drives, a deep lying playmaker like scholes or a DM like carrick. So long as he can do those two things, he would fit in with Fred and Bruno.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
42,756
Location
Canada
See how Brazil don't have him build from the back....that's where our problems come with him. We need to let him be a mobile box to box player. TBH I don't think what we need is necessarily a DM, just someone who can hold their position in midfield ( so Fred has more pressing opportunities) and most importantly can help our build up play with press resistance and penetrative plays. It could a rounded cm like Yaya who drives, a deep lying playmaker like scholes or a DM like carrick. So long as he can do those two things, he would fit in with Fred and Bruno.
Locatelli
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
4,394
Fred's name on paper is hardly exciting than seeing a new shiny CM there or a player with big reputation. We probably wont get a starting midfielder unless Pogba leaves but his replacement should be someone that compliments Fred and covers his flaws. A press resistant deeplying play maker will do that and would allow for Fred to focus on his strength giving us a balanced and effective midfield. How many of these types are there though. There's Koopmeiners but he plays in a weak league compared to ours. Locatelli, Brozovic, Neves and Kalvin Phillip's also fit though I dont know how press resistant they are
 

V.O.

Last Man Standing finalist 2019/20
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
1,616
it’s fair to say 99% of our fans don’t know what they’re talking about to be honest.

Fred is the perfect midfield workhorse, obviously he needs to tidy up a few unforced errors but he covers the left midfield and left wing slot all by himself.

Neymar will love him as it allows him to stay up field while fred does his defending.

there’s a reason why hes ahead of fabinho in brazil’s midfield right now!
You're still pedalling this after he played alongside Fabinho in the Peru game?

I suppose this time he's "benched Casemiro", has he? :)
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
31,277
You're still pedalling this after he played alongside Fabinho in the Peru game?

I suppose this time he's "benched Casemiro", has he? :)
Well it wasn't Fred getting benched was it? if anything that proves he's more important than both ;)
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
4,607
Why are some fans so desperate to pretend he is good enough to be playing week in week out for a team that wants to compete at the top?

He has his uses. He wasn't worth the money spent. Ideally would be our backup CM option.
 

V.O.

Last Man Standing finalist 2019/20
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
1,616
Well it wasn't Fred getting benched was it? if anything that proves he's more important than both ;)
No, because they're different roles! They want one sitting midfielder and have Casemiro and Fabinho for that. They want one pressing, harrying midfielder and they have Fred for that.
 

Mcking

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
5,483
Location
Nigeria
Why are some fans so desperate to pretend he is good enough to be playing week in week out for a team that wants to compete at the top?

He has his uses. He wasn't worth the money spent. Ideally would be our backup CM option.
He is good enough to be playing week in week out for a team that wants to compete at the top. I don't see any reason why he is not.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
21,308
Location
...
Why are some fans so desperate to pretend he is good enough to be playing week in week out for a team that wants to compete at the top?

He has his uses. He wasn't worth the money spent. Ideally would be our backup CM option.
Perhaps that is their opinion?
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
31,277
No, because they're different roles! They want one sitting midfielder and have Casemiro and Fabinho for that. They want one pressing, harrying midfielder and they have Fred for that.
So Fred is a very important player for Brazil is what you're saying? good, agreed.
 

V.O.

Last Man Standing finalist 2019/20
Joined
Jan 12, 2019
Messages
1,616
So Fred is a very important player for Brazil is what you're saying? good, agreed.
Yes he is, Brazil don't really have another midfielder in that mould. He's also not benching Fabinho (or Casemiro). Both of those things can be the case.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
31,277
Yes he is, Brazil don't really have another midfielder in that mould. He's also not benching Fabinho (or Casemiro). Both of those things can be the case.
Fabinho could happily play the pressing role if they really thought Fred was rubbish like some seem to think on here.

Most just can't look past the odd sloppy pass as they think every player should have 100% accuracy and never make a mistake (fifa generation)
 

OutOfTowner

JCL Daytripping WUM
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
2,637
Why are some fans so desperate to pretend he is good enough to be playing week in week out for a team that wants to compete at the top?

He has his uses. He wasn't worth the money spent. Ideally would be our backup CM option.
"Why are people disagreeing with me?"
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
4,607
"Why are people disagreeing with me?"
Not how I meant to word it but yeah badly written.

But for me Fred just isn't anywhere close to it. One of our biggest problems for me.

Such an erratic player. Very dangerous touch especially when is picking the ball up from defenders. Costs us lots of goals late last year.
 

OutOfTowner

JCL Daytripping WUM
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
2,637
Not how I meant to word it but yeah badly written.

But for me Fred just isn't anywhere close to it. One of our biggest problems for me.

Such an erratic player. Very dangerous touch especially when is picking the ball up from defenders. Costs us lots of goals late last year.
He strikes me as a high energy player who is currently being asked to do something he's not very comfortable with and is hindering his stronger points. I hope we can get in someone is more specialised in Fred's current place so that Fred himself could possibly rotate in a midfield three.
 

criticalanalysis

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,128
See how Brazil don't have him build from the back....that's where our problems come with him. We need to let him be a mobile box to box player. TBH I don't think what we need is necessarily a DM, just someone who can hold their position in midfield ( so Fred has more pressing opportunities) and most importantly can help our build up play with press resistance and penetrative plays. It could a rounded cm like Yaya who drives, a deep lying playmaker like scholes or a DM like carrick. So long as he can do those two things, he would fit in with Fred and Bruno.
I've always thought about whether Fred can be the deepest midfielder like how Guardiola moulded Fernandinho. Instead of letting Fred play his natural game like a box to box, I think he has the tools to concentrate his qualities in those pockets of spaces. Tame/conrol that energy for protecting the centre of the park and spright feet for high accuracy but relatively incisive passing. That won't solve everything as we'll also need a more cohesive unit in regards to pressing, passing and on/off the ball movement but it's a worthwhile transition imo. Problem is that Ole simply hasn't shown that sort of micro managing coaching and tactics.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12,612
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Not how I meant to word it but yeah badly written.

But for me Fred just isn't anywhere close to it. One of our biggest problems for me.

Such an erratic player. Very dangerous touch especially when is picking the ball up from defenders. Costs us lots of goals late last year.
The problem is that his inconsistent touch is highlighted by the fact that we expect him to basically be our main deep-lying playmaker. McTominay certainly can't do it, so Fred ends up being the main man in there that is getting the ball from our defenders and turning to move the ball forward. He actually does a better job of it than many in here make out, but he's never going to be great at it.

The obvious comparison is Chelsea and how they split that role with Jorginho being the playmaker and Kante obviously being the harrier. Fred pretty much ends up trying to do both roles for us. He's obviously the main presser and destroyer, and we also use him as the main playmaker. In theory at least we should be looking for our 'Jorginho' and releasing Fred to focus even more on the pressing, destroying and simply causing chaos to the opposition, while also (something that isn't often talked about) speeding up the tempo of our play. He's not as good as Kante in that role, but he's closer than almost anyone else is.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
9,421
Supports
Varane - Maguire
The face of a man who started 5x in a row and the face of a man who sits on the bench. :D
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
49,308
Location
Hope, We Lose
The problem is that his inconsistent touch is highlighted by the fact that we expect him to basically be our main deep-lying playmaker. McTominay certainly can't do it, so Fred ends up being the main man in there that is getting the ball from our defenders and turning to move the ball forward. He actually does a better job of it than many in here make out, but he's never going to be great at it.

The obvious comparison is Chelsea and how they split that role with Jorginho being the playmaker and Kante obviously being the harrier. Fred pretty much ends up trying to do both roles for us. He's obviously the main presser and destroyer, and we also use him as the main playmaker. In theory at least we should be looking for our 'Jorginho' and releasing Fred to focus even more on the pressing, destroying and simply causing chaos to the opposition, while also (something that isn't often talked about) speeding up the tempo of our play. He's not as good as Kante in that role, but he's closer than almost anyone else is.
He's played next to Pogba though. Pogba clearly has that role with the ball, as he does for France. Fred and McTominay gets used because Fred performs better in it and Pogba - Fred isnt as successful as Pogba - Kante is for France because Fred is half the player Kante is.

Again, Casemiro is a better ball winner and better on the ball than Fred is. Fred can play next to Casemiro because Casemiro does everything, Pogba can play next to Kante because Kante does everything. But when we've played Fred and Pogba defensively we are poor because we dont have a Casemiro or a Kante in there.
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
9,413
Location
London
The problem is that his inconsistent touch is highlighted by the fact that we expect him to basically be our main deep-lying playmaker. McTominay certainly can't do it, so Fred ends up being the main man in there that is getting the ball from our defenders and turning to move the ball forward. He actually does a better job of it than many in here make out, but he's never going to be great at it.

The obvious comparison is Chelsea and how they split that role with Jorginho being the playmaker and Kante obviously being the harrier. Fred pretty much ends up trying to do both roles for us. He's obviously the main presser and destroyer, and we also use him as the main playmaker. In theory at least we should be looking for our 'Jorginho' and releasing Fred to focus even more on the pressing, destroying and simply causing chaos to the opposition, while also (something that isn't often talked about) speeding up the tempo of our play. He's not as good as Kante in that role, but he's closer than almost anyone else is.
We have a similar take on this. I think a deep playmaker is what we need.

He's played next to Pogba though. Pogba clearly has that role with the ball, as he does for France. Fred and McTominay gets used because Fred performs better in it and Pogba - Fred isnt as successful as Pogba - Kante is for France because Fred is half the player Kante is.

Again, Casemiro is a better ball winner and better on the ball than Fred is. Fred can play next to Casemiro because Casemiro does everything, Pogba can play next to Kante because Kante does everything. But when we've played Fred and Pogba defensively we are poor because we dont have a Casemiro or a Kante in there.
"Half the player" c'mon now :rolleyes:

Hard to take someone seriously with that take...




Fred is severely underrated on here. He's not a playmaker but his defensive work is top tier and his pace and directness in transition is pretty class.

Pogba always has another CM in Tolisso/Sissoko/Matuidi/Rabiot on his side for France, aside from Kante. A CM that isn't playing as advanced as Bruno is for us.

I also start to share @noodlehair's take about Pogba in CM. He said that can be focused and disciplined during a short tournament but he doesn't seem that capable of doing that over a season. Casemiro has Kroos as deep playmaker at Real and Kante has Jorginho at Chelsea, both very disciplined CMs that put a good defensive shift as well.

I still believe that Fred with a deep playmaker will make a very good duo duo. The question is about Pogba and Bruno; who to play, how to fit them in the team, will the former will even stay etc.
 
Last edited:

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
9,421
Supports
Varane - Maguire
Fred’s asset is his defensive work but not as holding midfielder to protect back four but to cover lot of ground to make his team’s offensive players to do less defensive work and more freedom given in attack, and Fred is the best doing it in our team. He’s important because our system’s creativity relies so much on the front four and also Luke shaw means he’s vital to cover their defensive’s works. Deep playmaker like Carrick type or Busquets type would be perfect. Unfortunately, there is not many this type of midfield available in the market. Locatelli and Veratti are probably the closest ones for this kind of deep playmaker.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
49,308
Location
Hope, We Lose
We have a similar take on this. I think a deep playmaker is what we need.



"Half the player" c'mon now :rolleyes:

Hard to take someone seriously with that take...




Fred is severely underrated on here. He's not a playmaker but his defensive work is top tier and his pace and directness in transition is pretty class.

Pogba always has another CM in Tolisso/Sissoko/Matuidi/Rabiot on his side for France, aside from Kante. A CM that isn't playing as advanced as Bruno is for us.

I also start to share @noodlehair's take about Pogba in CM. He said that can be focused and disciplined during a short tournament but he doesn't seem that capable of doing that over a season. Casemiro has Kroos as deep playmaker at Real and Kante has Jorginho at Chelsea, both very disciplined CMs that put a good defensive shift as well.

I still believe that Fred with a deep playmaker will make a very good duo duo. The question is about Pogba and Bruno; who to play, how to fit them in the team, will the former will even stay etc.
Yes he's half the player. Half the good decisions, half the positioning, less than half the goals, half as good a DM

Kante has won everything and has been the best DM in the past 10 years, Casemiro has won a lot at Madrid and would clearly be 2nd. If you wanted to buy one of these guys they would cost twice the price of Fred
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
14,451
Why are people trying to compare him with Fabinho or Casemiro. They play in different positions.

Fred can't play as a DM. He's a box to box player.
 

Zlatans Knee

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
404
Why are people trying to compare him with Fabinho or Casemiro. They play in different positions.

Fred can't play as a DM. He's a box to box player.
Which is fine apart from the fact that he panics as soon as he gets anywhere near either of those boxes.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
7,960
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
I just can’t be arsed taking the bait today. If people can’t count and see the difference between a midfield 2 and a 3 and understand the different functions of players and the need for energy and work in there from at least one player then feck it. That’s their business
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12,612
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
He's played next to Pogba though. Pogba clearly has that role with the ball, as he does for France. Fred and McTominay gets used because Fred performs better in it and Pogba - Fred isnt as successful as Pogba - Kante is for France because Fred is half the player Kante is.

Again, Casemiro is a better ball winner and better on the ball than Fred is. Fred can play next to Casemiro because Casemiro does everything, Pogba can play next to Kante because Kante does everything. But when we've played Fred and Pogba defensively we are poor because we dont have a Casemiro or a Kante in there.
There's a few things here I want to address.

1) Even when Fred plays with Pogba he quite often is the one acting more as the deep playmaker while Pogba pushes into more attacking areas. I don't remember it being that way in their earlier matches, but it does seem to be going that way more and more as time passes (it was very obvious in one of their most recent matches together).

2) Pogba-Kante isn't the France midfield. It never has been. It's always Pogba-Kante and a third central midfielder, sometimes named in the midfield and sometimes nominally named on the wing but obviously helping out just as much in the midfield.

Since the start of 2018 Pogba has started 28 times for France. In that time he's played in a two man midfield four times, against the heavyweights of Iceland, Andora, Kazakhstan and Bosnia. And against Iceland (the highest ranked of those four teams at 52nd in the world) France was losing 2-0 with that formation until they bought on a third midfielder and later took Pogba off, after which they got it back to 2-2. Every other single time he's started for France he's had two of Kante, Matuidi, Tolisso, Rabiot, N'zonzi, Ndombele or Sissoko in there with him.

Interestingly, France are much more likely to only play two actual midfielders when Pogba isn't playing. In the 16 games that he didn't start in during that time there were 9 times that they only used two midfielders. That says a lot IMO.

So if even the great Kante, who is double the player of Fred according to you, can't be trusted to cover Pogba by himself in the international arena (where almost all opposition is comfortably weaker than most of the teams we face in the league), why are we expecting Fred to? Or anybody else for that matter? People talk about Rice or Ndidi allowing it to happen but I wouldn't be holding my breath. Same with Casemiro. That's an issue with Pogba, not Fred.

3) Kante and Casemiro are better than Fred. Not many will deny that. Fred's not 'half the player' that they are but he is below them. But then neither of them play as the main midfield playmaker of their team like we expect Fred to do most of the time, which was my point in the post you replied to. How good would Kante or Casemiro look if they were played next to McTominay and asked to be the main one controlling the team around? Casemiro obviously has Modric and Kroos, while Kante's best form has happened next to Matic (back when he was good) or Jorginho. Also Drinkwater back in their Leicester days, but that was obviously a very different playstyle where their midfield didn't expect or even try to control the game.

We should be trying to use Fred in exactly the same way that Kante has been most effective for Chelsea IMO. Next to a defensively solid playmaker who can be the main 'controller' of the team while also doing plenty defensively so Fred/Kante can press and harry all over the field.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.