stevoc
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The enigma that is Fred.you can’t be a good passer if you are erratic.
The enigma that is Fred.you can’t be a good passer if you are erratic.
If you can excuse my spelling in that last post, I’ll forget about Bruno. I agree that Fred isn’t the best passer, but nor do I think he is terrible. He definitely needs to improve, but if he plays it simple, he’s good at recycling possession.perhaps I shouldn’t have brought Bruno into it - so ignore that.
Fred isint erratic in respect of him passing forwards and it not coming off. He’s erratic because he often doesn’t get the basics right and passes poorly.
Neither could shoot to save their lives.He really is a fitter, more energetic Anderson isn't he
I disagree. If hes always slowing us down and only playing safe slow passes then slate away. Ya he misses some easy passes but that’s because he does everything fast and almost by instinct and with whatever foot it lands on. He pulls off some very difficult passes in nearly every game too and he should have more assists if our forwards were a bit more ruthless. I agree about the Bruno bashing. We need to be as direct as possible and stop trying to slow it down only to run it back in through the crowd once they are set, over and over. What I like most about Fred is he forces the play, for better or worse. He’s the only player we have in the middle who can set the tempo.Disagree - I mean erratic in the sense that he was good tonight, but has been poor in other games.
Not in the sense that some forward balls don’t come off - some people use that as a stick to bash Bruno, which is ridiculous.
He certainly is more fitter and more energetic than Ando. But Ando was technically a much better player.He really is a fitter, more energetic Anderson isn't he
Yeah I agree. Plus, I think he plays better against not-so-physical opponents.No surprise how good he was tonight as he absolutely thrives in end to end games where he can harass and recover balls in space.
Think most would have said they were one of the best teams left in the competition.You're hardly classing Sociedad in the 'best teams' category?
Yeah I remember seeing him doing a similar one for Shakhtar and wondered if we would ever see it hereWhat a pass for the 3rd.
Think he just needs to get one in from distance and it breaks some ice. He has the ability and also Ole said in presser that he is waiting for one Fred's long range goalsGiven his energy and how he gets up and down, if he could work on his shooting, it would be an added asset especially against teams that sit back where he becomes the free man
Would be nice for it to happen In a tight game that wins us the matchThink he just needs to get one in from distance and it breaks some ice. He has the ability and also Ole said in presser that he is waiting for one Fred's long range goals
This could be said for every player ever to have played the game and many on our own team this season.Disagree - I mean erratic in the sense that he was good tonight, but has been poor in other games.
again i disagree. Obviously players have bad games, but if you look at the likes of Scholes, Beckham, Keane, Carrick and Fletcher you would described their passing as consistently good. You would never use the word erratic.This could be said for every player ever to have played the game and many on our own team this season.
I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...fred can’t consistently pass the ball well.
Rodrigo | 91.1 |
Thiago | 90.5 |
Nemanja Matic | 90.1 |
Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg | 88.6 |
Jordan Henderson | 87.2 |
Fred | 87.1 |
James Ward Prouse | 86.9 |
Phil Foden | 86.8 |
Wilfred Ndidi | 86.4 |
Scott McTominay | 86.0 |
Douglas Luiz | 85.6 |
Moussa Sissoko | 85.0 |
Jack Grealish | 84.1 |
Paul Pogba | 83.5 |
Oriol Romeu | 83.3 |
Tanguy Ndombele | 83.2 |
Youri Tielemans | 83.2 |
Kevin De Bruyne | 82.0 |
John McGinn | 79.0 |
Bruno Fernandes | 77.2 |
thanks. If you read my previous posts on pass completion you will know my thoughts. A very blunt tool that’s in no way tells you how well a player can pass.I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...
Rodrigo 91.1 Thiago 90.5 Nemanja Matic 90.1 Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg 88.6 Jordan Henderson 87.2 Fred 87.1 James Ward Prouse 86.9 Phil Foden 86.8 Wilfred Ndidi 86.4 Scott McTominay 86.0 Douglas Luiz 85.6 Moussa Sissoko 85.0 Jack Grealish 84.1 Paul Pogba 83.5 Oriol Romeu 83.3 Tanguy Ndombele 83.2 Youri Tielemans 83.2 Kevin De Bruyne 82.0 John McGinn 79.0 Bruno Fernandes 77.2
Now I can imagine loads of comebacks about these results, and some of them will be fair. Yes of course Bruno's passing % is low because he's trying more difficult passes. I get it. But what is clearly not true is that Fred is an objectively poor passer, or that he "can't consistently pass the ball well". Unless you're putting a *lot* of emphasis on your own subjective definition of the word "well".
What it shows to me is that some people have stubborn defined positions on Fred, and just assume that he can't pass so their blinkers don't allow them to see that he obviously can.
Clearly, in the company of players above, he is one of the better, most consistent passers in the league. That doesn't make him the best in his position, or a clearly world-class player, or the future of the United midfield, or any of that. But maybe it shows you're giving him a particularly harsh report. And you might want to consider why that is.
If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.I hear this said again and again, and my eyes tell me a different story. But eyes can be biased, so I've just chosen some random players from other teams and our own. Obviously not all in exactly the same position, but the perception is important here. This is what I found...
Rodrigo 91.1 Thiago 90.5 Nemanja Matic 90.1 Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg 88.6 Jordan Henderson 87.2 Fred 87.1 James Ward Prouse 86.9 Phil Foden 86.8 Wilfred Ndidi 86.4 Scott McTominay 86.0 Douglas Luiz 85.6 Moussa Sissoko 85.0 Jack Grealish 84.1 Paul Pogba 83.5 Oriol Romeu 83.3 Tanguy Ndombele 83.2 Youri Tielemans 83.2 Kevin De Bruyne 82.0 John McGinn 79.0 Bruno Fernandes 77.2
Now I can imagine loads of comebacks about these results, and some of them will be fair. Yes of course Bruno's passing % is low because he's trying more difficult passes. I get it. But what is clearly not true is that Fred is an objectively poor passer, or that he "can't consistently pass the ball well". Unless you're putting a *lot* of emphasis on your own subjective definition of the word "well".
What it shows to me is that some people have stubborn defined positions on Fred, and just assume that he can't pass so their blinkers don't allow them to see that he obviously can.
Clearly, in the company of players above, he is one of the better, most consistent passers in the league. That doesn't make him the best in his position, or a clearly world-class player, or the future of the United midfield, or any of that. But maybe it shows you're giving him a particularly harsh report. And you might want to consider why that is.
Im not saying that - arguing how good a passer he is based on pass completion stats is foolhardy.If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.
I was more arguing that those stats prove that he is not as rubbish a passer as some think as opposed to proving that he is a great passer which he ain't.Im not saying that - arguing how good a passer he is based on pass completion stats is foolhardy.
he was very good yesterday, I don’t need a blunt stat to tell me that.
I disagree. He plays lot of passes forward that cuts the lines. I think he should play more higher up the pitch because of that.If you were paying attention to this thread you would know that most of Fred's passes while registered as completed are backways, side ways and at least 1.5m away from the person he is passing to and passing stats are meaningless.
I found his performance today to be terrible. He was one of the worst players on the pitch in the first half imo.
2 weeks when it's a right-footed shot.He should be fined everytime he shoots from outside the box.
I'd consider fining him every time he absolutely smashes a 5 yard pass at his team mates as well.He should be fined everytime he shoots from outside the box.