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2021-22 Performances


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5.1 Season Average Rating
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15
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1
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Litch

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Typical caf. Last year people were saying sorry to him and lauding him as a v.good midfielder.

Then a couple of games into the new season and he's a pub player. He’s been decent for us overall since his first few months at the club.
Spot on. He is what he is. Honest as the day is long, gives 100% every game and never hides. Under Ole tenure, his best moments Fred is more than often on the pitch. Fred is a big game player and generally the bigger the games, the better he plays. Whilst he's not a fan favourite, I guarantee he's a players favourite as he does the work others don't want to do, whilst rarely getting the plaudits. People also forget that he's rarely injured and when you think of long periods Pogs was injured, Scott too and people forget Matic was that poor for a full season most of us thought he was going to be sold, Fred has been the only constant in the midfield.
Ole knows when he's up against it, Fred plays. I'd go as far to say, if he didn't play yesterday we lose the game.
 

Kostov

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He has been bad this season. last season he was mostly good. He had a terrible game against Everton and then against Leicester he was brutally exposed in the system. Yesterday he was good. You need water carriers like Fred.
How did he play for Brazil in his last international?
Need them for what? To stay a mediocre second rate team who will never win anything significant? That is maybe true.
 

Teja

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He had some good games, most of them still featured his mistakes unlike last night
I think this is the problem with Fred.

Even when he plays well there's an element of uncertainty and atleast once a game he does stupid things.

When he doesn't do anything obviously stupid the people who defend Fred come out in numbers with their progressive passing stats. When he does do something stupid the Fred / Ole out brigade come in and blast him for not being able to make a 5 yard pass, calling him a terrible passer, championship level midfielder etc.
 

Litch

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Need them for what? To stay a mediocre second rate team who will never win anything significant? That is maybe true.
Agree. We will never win anything significant because of Fred. Not sure what the Brazilian coach sees in him for a guy who can't pass, tackle etc.
 

Blood Mage

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There can be no doubt that Ole has made him look worse than he is, like quite a few of our players. He still shouldn't be starting for us mind, but he'll be a useful squad player in the future.
 

Litch

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I think this is the problem with Fred.

Even when he plays well there's an element of uncertainty and atleast once a game he does stupid things.

When he doesn't do anything obviously stupid the people who defend Fred come out in numbers with their progressive passing stats. When he does do something stupid the Fred / Ole out brigade come in and blast him for not being able to make a 5 yard pass, calling him a terrible passer, championship level midfielder etc.
Sounds like you are talking about most players.....
 

lex talionis

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Was close to MoM performance for me, he was everywhere.

Didn't lose any 50-50s defensively, didn't get knocked off the ball in possession like he usually does.
The great news is that everyone's opinion is important. But in looking at a few dozen player ratings from last night's game Fred comes in mostly with 5s and 6s, although I saw a 7 somewhere.

Here's one from The Hard Tackle that I think is pretty close to the mark:

Fred: 6/10
Back into the side after missing the weekend encounter, Fred brought his usual energy and vigour to the field, but his passing wasn’t always accurate. Forced a save in the first period and then squandered a great chance to score right before half-time. Continued to work his socks off till being taken off late in the game.

http://www.thehardtackle.com/round-...or-match-winner-ronaldo-poor-lindelof-gets-5/

Fred did bring energy, no doubt about it. But it's also true that his passing was mediocre at best. We know about the squandered glorious chances, but we don't count on Fred for effectiveness in scoring positions so there can't be any complaints there his squandered glorious chances. But isn't it also true that we were shambolic in midfield in the first half? He wasn't responsible for either goal, but apart from his energy Fred contributed nothing going forward and little more defensively. But Fred was undeniably superior to McTominay, who was borderline criminal, and provided a spark of energy while for whatever reason his teammates lacked it.

If this is what we now call a MoM performance, we're in serious trouble as a club.
 

Teja

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Sounds like you are talking about most players.....
No chance. Fred is on another level in terms of being error prone. And his errors are extremely expensive because he's typically the last man before opposition attackers get a direct run at our CBs.

It's not just opinion either, the data backs it up.

Great at progressive passing, passes into the final 3rd, volume of pressures, interceptions, successful tackles.

But also quite shit passes intercepted, passes blocked, number of times dribbled past, % of dribblers tackled, Miscontrols (1.07 per 90, 28th percentile), dispossessed (1.29 per 90, 24th percentile)

In fact it's one of those where the eye test and the stats are in total sync.
 

Pogue Mahone

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No chance. Fred is on another level in terms of being error prone. And his errors are extremely expensive because he's typically the last man before opposition attackers get a direct run at our CBs.

It's not just opinion either, the data backs it up.

Great at progressive passing, passes into the final 3rd, volume of pressures, interceptions, successful tackles.

But also quite shit passes intercepted, passes blocked, number of times dribbled past, % of dribblers tackled, Miscontrols (1.07 per 90, 28th percentile), dispossessed (1.29 per 90, 24th percentile)

In fact it's one of those where the eye test and the stats are in total sync.
Almost all of his weaknesses would be far less of an issue if he got his wish and played higher up the pitch. Playing him as one of two deep lying CMs (usually outnumbered and with with zero support from the front four) is asking for trouble. And that’s not Fred’s fault.
 

Foxbatt

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Almost all of his weaknesses would be far less of an issue if he got his wish and played higher up the pitch. Playing him as one of two deep lying CMs (usually outnumbered and with with zero support from the front four) is asking for trouble. And that’s not Fred’s fault.
If you play Fred as a CB or a striker he is going to make mistakes. He is never a holding DM. It is the job of the coach to use him for his strength if he is in the team. I am sure any other or better coach is going to make better use of him.
 

Teja

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Almost all of his weaknesses would be far less of an issue if he got his wish and played higher up the pitch. Playing him as one of two deep lying CMs (usually outnumbered and with with zero support from the front four) is asking for trouble. And that’s not Fred’s fault.
Yup, sort of agreed. If we had an actual DM, Fred can go in aggressive when pressing and even if he doesn't knick the ball, it's fine, we have someone mopping up behind. However being knocked off the ball in possession easily and making idiotic 5 yard passes to the opposition are something he has to be better at. Teams specifically target him because they know he'll do something stupid in possession once or twice a game.

If he actually played in the role Kante plays for Chelsea (ahead of a pseudo DM / CB like Rudiger) and next to an actual playmaker like Jorginho he could be quite good. Brazil tried it with Fabinho / Casemiro behind him and seem to have success as well.

This is why I hope we give the 5-3-2 a go. Covers for Lindelof's weakness in the air, adds someone who will position themselves like a DM, frees up both Fred and Pogba. But that's dropping one attacker (Greenwood / Rashford / Ronaldo / Bruno) for a CB and I think there will be open revolt if Ole does that.
 

Litch

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No chance. Fred is on another level in terms of being error prone. And his errors are extremely expensive because he's typically the last man before opposition attackers get a direct run at our CBs.

It's not just opinion either, the data backs it up.

Great at progressive passing, passes into the final 3rd, volume of pressures, interceptions, successful tackles.

But also quite shit passes intercepted, passes blocked, number of times dribbled past, % of dribblers tackled, Miscontrols (1.07 per 90, 28th percentile), dispossessed (1.29 per 90, 24th percentile)

In fact it's one of those where the eye test and the stats are in total sync.
Those stats mean nothing without context and that's the problem. Football isn't golf or Tennis, there are all other kind of factors that impact on decisions made. It's like saying the Norwich goalkeeper is shit cause of the amount of goals conceded. The eye test is another piece of bullshit cause there is a saying, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. What you see is based on lots of factors and often subjective. There's not a Utd player that in general as a shared opinion on?
Whether he is shit or not, divides opinions or people believe he's a pub player, I like to stick to the facts, he's a professional footballer, plays for Utd, one of the biggest clubs in the world along with playing for probably the greatest international team in the world. You don't achieve that cause you can't pass and tackle playing in midfield. If you could, Tera, you'd along with others would. The bar doesn't have to measured at Pogs or Bruno and you can't contribute to winning football matches in many other ways.
 

Teja

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Those stats mean nothing without context and that's the problem. Football isn't golf or Tennis, there are all other kind of factors that impact on decisions made. It's like saying the Norwich goalkeeper is shit cause of the amount of goals conceded. The eye test is another piece of bullshit cause there is a saying, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. What you see is based on lots of factors and often subjective. There's not a Utd player that in general as a shared opinion on?
Whether he is shit or not, divides opinions or people believe he's a pub player, I like to stick to the facts, he's a professional footballer, plays for Utd, one of the biggest clubs in the world along with playing for probably the greatest international team in the world. You don't achieve that cause you can't pass and tackle playing in midfield. If you could, Tera, you'd along with others would. The bar doesn't have to measured at Pogs or Bruno and you can't contribute to winning football matches in many other ways.
I mean if your argument is that he plays for United therefore he is a good passer / tackler, there's not a lot more to discuss there.

The stats have context baked in - they are comparing him to other players who play in a similar position in the top five leagues in Europe. They are saying he gets dispossessed a lot, miscontrols a lot but but he also is a very good progressive passer when compared to other top flight midfielders.

That will be my opinion until I change my mind either by watching him play and improve or when the data tells me that he has improved.
 

Litch

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Insulting another member
He probably sees feck all since Brazil are even a bigger joke than us in recent years.
Yep, the comment of someone who equal knows feck all about Brazil and football. Brazil could be the worst team in the world, they'll still be one of the favourites for the World Cup. Feck me there are some idiots in our fan base.
 

Litch

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I mean if your argument is that he plays for United therefore he is a good passer / tackler, there's not a lot more to discuss there.

The stats have context baked in - they are comparing him to other players who play in a similar position in the top five leagues in Europe. They are saying he gets dispossessed a lot, miscontrols a lot but but he also is a very good progressive passer when compared to other top flight midfielders.

That will be my opinion until I change my mind either by watching him play and improve or when the data tells me that he has improved.
You see 'good' is subjective because it means so many different things. Comparing him to other players equally so as how can you measure 'similar' when their attributes are so different? The top leagues in Europe play football completely different not to mention so do the teams. Progressive passer, your eyesight test must have cataracts as some people say quite the opposite. Thats the beauty of football, we all have opinions and views but in reality they count for nothing other than that. The only football ones that really matter are those of his club, his manager and his team mates. If fit, he starts for Utd and Brazil. That's a hard fact to argue from behind my keyboard from irrespective of the 'data'.....
 

The_Midfielder

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There can be no doubt that Ole has made him look worse than he is, like quite a few of our players. He still shouldn't be starting for us mind, but he'll be a useful squad player in the future.
Ole made him play better .. with Jose he wasn't even getting in the team..
 

Foxbatt

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If we play Fred get him to do things he can do. Asking him to be a Pirlo is madness. The problem at United is there is no other midfield player who can actually play in midfield. Forget about Fred. He is the best out of the lot.
 

city-puma

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I think he plays solid for us. Not as near bad like lots of people think. We need upgrade there but reading about jim, you would thought thst he is championship midfielder
Oh, no! They think Fred an amateur level player actually.
 

VanDeBank

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Almost all of his weaknesses would be far less of an issue if he got his wish and played higher up the pitch. Playing him as one of two deep lying CMs (usually outnumbered and with with zero support from the front four) is asking for trouble. And that’s not Fred’s fault.
Exactly, we're inducing a lot of his errors by not playing to his strengths (1), partnering him without a DM (2) and by being poorly organized, both in the buildup and in defensive transitions (3).
 

Kostov

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Yep, the comment of someone who equal knows feck all about Brazil and football. Brazil could be the worst team in the world, they'll still be one of the favourites for the World Cup. Feck me there are some idiots in our fan base.
Are you calling me an idiot?

EDIT: The only idiotic comment here is you implying that you know a lot about Brazil or football? I gather you count yourself in that group of idiots
 
Last edited:

Sylar

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some of freds mistakes are more highlighted because of the way he plays as has been said before. Mct doesn't make the same mistakes but mct seems to avoid getting on the ball trying to play.

Also freds mistake against Everton, that really should not have lead to a goal as three other players had a chance to stop the counter but all whiffed

If somebody does that, it would be more a case of us saying that was a weak moment by Fred but not costly, instead it lead to the equalizer and dropped points at home
 

Litch

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Are you calling me an idiot?

EDIT: The only idiotic comment here is you implying that you know a lot about Brazil or football? I gather you count yourself in that group of idiots
Not sure I implied anything other than you are an idiot with an agenda. Not sure I count myself as anything other than I don't have the monopoly of knowledge of football but I know you don't play for Utd or Brazil based on your assessment of Fred. That's a fact and to offer any other opinion like said, is idiotic. Yep Utd and Brazil managers want to lose their iconic jobs by constantly playing a player who is going to cost them games cause he can't pass, tackle etc. You know how much of an idiot you have to be to believe that to be true?
 

Kostov

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Not sure I implied anything other than you are an idiot with an agenda. Not sure I count myself as anything other than I don't have the monopoly of knowledge of football but I know you don't play for Utd or Brazil based on your assessment of Fred. That's a fact and to offer any other opinion like said, is idiotic. Yep Utd and Brazil managers want to lose their iconic jobs by constantly playing a player who is going to cost them games cause he can't pass, tackle etc. You know how much of an idiot you have to be to believe that to be true?
I might not know a lot about football and certainly not as much as Brazil’s coach or Ole, luckily we are on a football forum expressing our sincere opinions. But I sure know that this forum should keep the level of reputation and ban precious little beings like you from posting.
 

giggslover

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Don't know if I'm way off on this but Fred often reminds me of Andres Periera.

At times obviously a capable premiership player but you're always waiting for that one inevitable mistake in a game that will cost you.
 

Litch

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I might not know a lot about football and certainly not as much as Brazil’s coach or Ole, luckily we are on a football forum expressing our sincere opinions. But I sure know that this forum should keep the level of reputation and ban precious little beings like you from posting.
Not sure anything you wrote is sincere? Biased and with an agenda might be more accurate. Not sure it merits calling you an idiot is worth a ban more like an attempt to withhold this forums reputation. Anyway, let's play nicely and park the personal insults.
 

MvG

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So is he in training or not ? Do we know yet ? Looked a proper hammy.
 

rotherham_red

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So is he in training or not ? Do we know yet ? Looked a proper hammy.
I was at the match and he pulled up right in my view. It looked a proper pull/tear initially but after the physio saw him and as he walked off the pitch he was giving the bench the thumbs up which makes me think it's either a bad case of cramp, or a minor twinge which they didn't want to risk
 

MvG

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I was at the match and he pulled up right in my view. It looked a proper pull/tear initially but after the physio saw him and as he walked off the pitch he was giving the bench the thumbs up which makes me think it's either a bad case of cramp, or a minor twinge which they didn't want to risk
Cheers. That sounds far more optimistic than what I saw on the tele.
 

Kostov

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Not sure anything you wrote is sincere? Biased and with an agenda might be more accurate. Not sure it merits calling you an idiot is worth a ban more like an attempt to withhold this forums reputation. Anyway, let's play nicely and park the personal insults.
I can’t be sincere and write what I do feel about your contribution, you got far too much attention as it stands. When you resort to personal insult over a forum discussion it says far more about yourself than the other way around.
 

captaincantona

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Ironic...we play him when we don’t need to play him and we will not have him for the exact type of game we need him for.
 

OhGee

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Yup, sort of agreed. If we had an actual DM, Fred can go in aggressive when pressing and even if he doesn't knick the ball, it's fine, we have someone mopping up behind. However being knocked off the ball in possession easily and making idiotic 5 yard passes to the opposition are something he has to be better at. Teams specifically target him because they know he'll do something stupid in possession once or twice a game.

If he actually played in the role Kante plays for Chelsea (ahead of a pseudo DM / CB like Rudiger) and next to an actual playmaker like Jorginho he could be quite good. Brazil tried it with Fabinho / Casemiro behind him and seem to have success as well.

This is why I hope we give the 5-3-2 a go. Covers for Lindelof's weakness in the air, adds someone who will position themselves like a DM, frees up both Fred and Pogba. But that's dropping one attacker (Greenwood / Rashford / Ronaldo / Bruno) for a CB and I think there will be open revolt if Ole does that.
Off course there will be open revolt. Will be another paper over the cracks again by changing formation to cover for Ole’s nepotism and Lindelof’s deficiencies all at the expense of an attacker. The obvious thing to do is to drop Lindelof and bring in Bailly but Ole will never do that.
 

Foxbatt

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Off course there will be open revolt. Will be another paper over the cracks again by changing formation to cover for Ole’s nepotism and Lindelof’s deficiencies all at the expense of an attacker. The obvious thing to do is to drop Lindelof and bring in Bailly but Ole will never do that.
with Lindelof you know what you will get. With Bailly you never know what is going to happen. He could be brilliant and disastrous all in the same move. Lindelof has been the most reliable CB available now.
 
Man Utd 0:5 Liverpool New

acnumber9

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Getting off lightly today I see. Watch his effort on the first goal. Keita runs past him in the middle of the park and Fred just ambles back.
 

Born2Lose

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Makes stupid reckless passes every game I watch him, how he's not picked up on it by the coaches and Manager is beyond me.