[MadDogg]

That match was a microcosm of his season as a whole.

Atrocious at the start, getting better as the game wore on and alternating between poor and good. Not good enough as a whole but still effective, but hopefully he can get back to how he was playing 12 months ago.

Won the penalty.
Got the assist.
Ronaldo's chance in the first half (where he probably should have passed it on to Rashford) came directly from Fred winning it.
Played a part in our other fairly good chance in the first half.

But that first 20 minutes...bloody hell.

 

[Marwood]

Have to give him credit for turning his game around tonight after that first half.

If we could put his engine in Sancho, Rashford and Martial.

 

[Cabin Clown]

Back to back MOTM displays. He'll flourish under Ralf!

 

[united for life]

An assist today, won us a penalty and made a very good interception to Saka’s shot. Pressed high and was almost everywhere. He loses focus at times, maybe due to his pressing role and this should be managed better. A lot around here undermine his role

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I just can't help liking the guy

 

[Kopral Jono]

A proper weird game from Fred. He was absolutely terrible for the first half an hour or so, but managed to turn things around in such a fashion that he ended up as a man of the match contender.

 

[Drainy]

The best shit player in the world

 

[lost7]

Horrid first half, but he was an engine afterwards. I will take his performance over McTominay's cowardly display any day of the week (Scott was also good in the second half to be fair)

 

[ivaldo]

He's Covid. He just won't feck off.

 

[Bwuk]

Arsenals best player at times but walks away with 2 assists. Strange game for him.

 

[city-puma]

Superb again today!

 

[Kostov]

Absolutely horrendous player

 

[Ali Dia]

Have to give him credit for turning his game around tonight after that first half.

If we could put his engine in Sancho, Rashford and Martial.

or Pogba. If Pogba had half the intensity he’d be the GOAT

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I thought we were in for a shocker after that start but he cleaned it up nicely and played excellently after.

 

[Ali Dia]

Absolutely horrendous player

2 assists and a goal saving tackle not enough for you?

 

[Abraxas]

Nothing wrong with his attitude or energy, I just think he is incredibly limited as a player. He runs a lot. That is literally the only strength of his game. He isnt a player with particularly good positioning (indeed its more the opposite, which is why he thrives when given license to just roam around the pitch... running), he contributes very little in the final third, his passing is poor*, and he is prone to sloppiness and gifting away possession.

I think and hope Fred can improve a lot under Rangnick, but right now I think he is simply too limited to merit a place in a team that wants to play any sort of progressive football. For a backs-against-the-wall situation like we expected vs Chelsea (given the teams form), or as someone to bring on to break up play and defend a lead, absolutely - but thats it.


*I have posted in more detail about Freds passing before, but the TLDR is that 'pass completion' does not tell the full picture. Fred is regularly guilty of underhitting, overhitting or misdirecting passes which either kills attacking momentum or plays the recipient into trouble. Just because a pass reaches its target, does not make it a good one. Pass completion is far too binary a statistic to be a useful metric by itself. Stats can be deceiving, it should be obvious to a viewer that Fred is not a good passer of the ball.

His pass completion doesn't immediately mean he's a great passer of the ball but it should tell you that he can't possibly be poor by any sensible analysis.

How can he be finding red shirts at a rate that is comparable with people we'd consider to be top passers and yet be poor. It makes no sense.

For that to work these mental gymnastics have to take place about passing weight and playing it at a non-ideal location to our players. Of course he does that if we get into microanalysis, maybe even at a higher rate than top passers because he shouldn't be held up as such, but it starts to get a lot less sensible than simply stating that he's a decent passer even if it's not his primary strength.

By the same token you can also get into the fact we're not a possession based side, he doesn't have an easy time of it, there are often few passing options and a hiding midfield partner. Maybe if he plays for City he's getting the ball in all kinds of space because the opposition are run ragged, picking out passes because he's got more time, racking up 90 passes a game. In fact that would be guaranteed if they had signed him. So if we really want to introduce this finer analysis to the stats there are a lot of things to consider, not just scruffy passes.

 

[sullydnl]

Had a particularly hilarious game today.

 

[Irwin99]

Such an odd player that he can emerge with a strong claim for man of the match and yet be so careless at times that even the crowd were getting on at him. Can never fault his effort and workrate and played key role in two goals.

Also, think he'll improve under a better coaching set up

 

[Kostov]

2 assists and a goal saving tackle not enough for you?

Not even close

 

[DarkXaero]

Dreadful start to the game but then our best player after that. Created our best openings, had an assist and won our penalty with a really good run into their box. Won the ball well numerous times and had a big block on Saka's goal attempt.

 

[Bobski]

Bad first 20 with sloppy passing then started to find his groove and was very good thereafter. Causes havoc with his pressing, running and the sheer tempo he brings to the game, a far better player when he is given leave to just be a box to box menace. Positional discipline is not his thing, for good and ill.

 

[Roboc7]

He’s always involved, sometimes you wish he wasn’t but he has to work his socks off to compensate for Mctominay.

 

[kundalini]

Injured De Gea for Arsenal's first goal. Assist for Bruno's goal. Fouled for the penalty.

 

[DarkXaero]

Not even close

This is how you know someone has a clear agenda.

 

[bond19821982]

Brilliant again. Unlike others, I won't blame the DDG incident on him . Shit happens. But referee screwed it up big time.

There is a Gem of a player and he just needs a right coach to advice him what to do on the right time. He would be our best player under Ralf.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

I dunno. We could perhaps make room for him alongside someone who controls the game very well. He’s just so erratic with everything and has a habit of turning comfortable situations into the opposite.

But he comes up with good moments and hes nibbled in and won the ball in very good positions 3 games in a row now. Something that could be very useful in a team trained well in doing that.

 

[Litch]

2 assists and a goal saving tackle not enough for you?

It wont be, trust me.....the guy has a clear agenda

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Quite a mixed bag in the first half but again, we are so bad at pressing as a team, I feel sorry for him. Brilliant in the second half, I think not a coincidence he tends to have better second halves because his stamina & commitment is incredible, easily the most fit guys in the team.

In the end he ends up with 0+2, he's been as important for us the last three season as Bruno and he will be a key player to take us forward under Rangnick, you can bet on that and maybe some "slow" fans will start to appreciate him because in colletively very poor years they will always pick a scapegoat, especially someone who played so much out of position with so many not good enough players in that midfield..

 

[Ali Dia]

It wont be, trust me.....

maybe just maybe he’s been trying to do too much. Played in the wrong position but a good honest scrappy fecking player which we need more of. Too many Rashford, Shaw, Maguire types who’ll all be looking at each other the bail the team out. We need players who roll up their sleeves and take responsibility.

 

[Walrus]

His pass completion doesn't immediately mean he's a great passer of the ball but it should tell you that he can't possibly be poor by any sensible analysis.

How can he be finding red shirts at a rate that is comparable with people we'd consider to be top passers and yet be poor. It makes no sense.

For that to work these mental gymnastics have to take place about passing weight and playing it at a non-ideal location to our players. Of course he does that if we get into microanalysis, maybe even at a higher rate than top passers because he shouldn't be held up as such, but it starts to get a lot less sensible than simply stating that he's a decent passer even if it's not his primary strength.

By the same token you can also get into the fact we're not a possession based side, he doesn't have an easy time of it, there are often few passing options and a hiding midfield partner. Maybe if he plays for City he's getting the ball in all kinds of space because the opposition are run ragged, picking out passes because he's got more time, racking up 90 passes a game. In fact that would be guaranteed if they had signed him. So if we really want to introduce this finer analysis to the stats there are a lot of things to consider, not just scruffy passes.

Thats a fair post and I would agree with some of the points. That said, I dont consider it to be microanalysis or mental gymnastics to just see what is presented in front of you. Tonight was a good example, with several instances in the first half of sloppiness gifting the opposition chances (and a goal), before a definite improvement in the second half.

I had long said that Fred contributes nothing in the final third, so I have to admit tonight he did well up there - driving into the box on several occasions and getting an assist/winning a penalty in the process, fair play. That is the role Fred thrives in - the headless chicken (in an affectionate way) who can charge about for 90 minutes without having to worry too much about strict tactical instruction. I dont think its hugely surprising that Fred has looked better in the last couple of games, with Carrick using him in that more advanced/roaming role.

 

[Virror]

Play him as a dm and he is really poor, play him as a box-to-box and he is very good. We need that dm in january so he and Bruno can play ahead of a dm.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

2 assists and a goal saving tackle not enough for you?

arm chair fan with zero knowledge about the game strikes again, I feel like the ignore button is the best piece of design on this forum. You should try that too, other than trying to convince complete fools like him ;-)

 

[Kostov]

This is how you know someone has a clear agenda.

Or maybe watches the actual game of football in which the said individual was absolute shit?

 

[Reddevillondoner]

I gave Ronaldo MOTM because of his two goal, but this game was all about Fred.

Stepping on DDG
Some awful passes
The through ball to telles
His assist for Bruno
His run for the penalty
His tackle foe saga chance

Very weirdly fantastic

 

[Kostov]

arm chair fan with zero knowledge about the game strikes again, I feel like the ignore button is the best piece of design on this forum. You should try that too, other than trying to convince complete fools like him ;-)

Fools galore tonight. ;-)

 

[Litch]

maybe just maybe he’s been trying to do too much. Played in the wrong position but a good honest scrappy fecking player which we need more of. Too many Rashford, Shaw, Maguire types who’ll all be looking at each other the bail the team out. We need players who roll up their sleeves and take responsibility.

I love Fred, despite any adversity he finds a way of turning things around. Typically today, starts terribly yet ends up motm. The man is mentally very strong....

 

[Rossa]

Not even close

So a couple of goals and three assists getting there? and a crucial block at the end, probably a few more in that department as well? But overall, he was a bit hit and miss.

 

[V.O.]

He's a bang average player technically, but he's got an absolute elite mentality to go with his stamina. Never lets his head drop after his mistakes and is absolutely fecking everywhere on the pitch.

Someone's having a long range potshot and we need someone to follow-up on a possible rebound? Fred's there. Last ditch sliding block in the other box? Fred's there. Need a passing option in any third of the pitch? ... he might lose the ball as you soon as you give it to him, but damn it, Fred's probably there. Has all of the fight and desire that McTominay is supposed to have but usually doesn't.

 

[lysglimt]

Or maybe watches the actual game of football in which the said individual was absolute shit?

So your definition of shit is 1 assist, getting fouled for the penalty and saving a big chance with a huge sliding tackle ? Says more about you than Fred

 

[MadDogg]

Or maybe watches the actual game of football in which the said individual was absolute shit?

It sounds like you only watched the first 20 minutes.

Or more likely, your bias against him got you so worked up about his first 20 minutes (during which he was absolute shit) that you couldn't acknowledge everything he did after that.