[SirScholes]

A whole team was jogged past for both goals. So mch happened between Fred and the net bulging and that's our problem.

Where was matic who was the deeper CM? being jogged pass to cross for Coutinho's goal that's where. Varane also didn't cover himself with glory by missing the cross. We are team that cannot defend as a team - we keep trying to blame one player when in a good team, others cover and someone stops that from even being crossed.

We persist with playing two man midfields then handicap that even more by playing matic an entire game. We were always going to be overrun near the end with no changes to that.

Agreed it wasn’t one man’s issue
But, the man in question gets bullied every game, the opposition are just not concerned about him at all.
He isn’t even strong enough to make tactical fouls, and when he’s on the ball he doesn’t see runs, he doesn’t make space for himself, I could continue, he is one of the most limited players in the league

 

[CloneMC16]

No denying, always been one for the underdog but so many fans and pundits alike say he's rubbish, think he's a championship player or worse. Today again, lots of negative views which I know are further fuelled cause we drew from a leading position.
If Fred is as bad as people believe, why would managers consistently pick him? I get the Scott thing, 'one of own' etc but that's not Fred. He's no fan fav, shirt seller or even if he was American either yet consistently he plays. When Ole left, Carrick played him and he spoke about his value to the team. When RR came in, if fit he's played him too. I know international football can be different but he's force his way into the most high profile team where fans and media pressure makes a massive difference.
If I was the Utd manager and the pressure to win, why would I constantly play a player that most think cost us games? If he was championship level, then surely I can replace him with pretty much any DM from the bottom half of the table? Wouldn't RR just pick a player from the German league for peanuts?

Joking aside, it doesn't make sense if he is as bad as some think?

I would say the same thing about both of them. They're both being picked under different managers. Rangnick even said that he thinks McT could be a potential captain of this club. They must be better than the majority of fans think, but I do still believe that they can and should be upgraded. People saying Fred is Championship level are absolutely fecking stupid. A lot of our fans have trouble distinguishing between not being world class for a club like ours, and being a decent player, but would probably suit starting at an upper mid table PL club.

I mostly blame this draw on Rangnick. His lack of needed subs cost us two points. Fred and Matic will get the vast majority of the blame. They were playing in midfield, and almost every problem we have is because of the midfield according to many, but the warning signs were there practically the whole 2nd half.

 

[NoMidfielders]

The good work he does is undone by his lack of positional awareness and poor decision making. So often he gambles on the press in dangerous situations and forces his midfield partner to try and do the job of 2 players.

 

[mattunited1978]

Useless, no wonder we'r the laughing stock of world football with clowns like this playing for us. The constant image of Fred with his hand raised apologizing for yet another shite touch or pass will haunt me forever.

 

[Lentwood]

Just popping back in here to say again that Fred is probably the worst player I have ever seen play regularly for United in 30+ years.

Awful. Terrible. Shocking. Woeful. Inept. Pitiful.

 

[NicolaSacco]

I swear people seem to be watching a different game sometimes. Without Fred's energy in midfield I think you'd have been overrun. Now there's more to being a midfielder than just energy but honestly, if you put all your problem players in order of importance I don't think Fred would be anywhere near the top.

 

[Ixion]

Protecting the back 4 just isn't what he's good at, nor McTominay, we'll just limp on while we use them and Matic who doesn't have the stamina now.

 

[SambaBoy]

He just isn't good enough to start regularly if we have ambitions to be one of the top teams. It's as simple as that really.

Keep him for back-up if we really need to as he provides decent energy in some games but a replacement is needed.

 

[Freak]

What the feck shit performance was that? Where was he playing anyway? Sometimes he was even higher than Cavani up top.

 

[Remember the geese]

Love the little guy to bits. He played in a 2 man midfield with a guy who can only last an hour. Sign an actual holding midfielder. Play a proper midfield three. We really don't help ourselves.

 

[Trequarista10]

He pushed up past other players to be our 2nd furthest forward while the other players fell back. Its pretty simple, can you count to 2?

This simply didn't happen, there are plenty of analysis videos you can find on YouTube.

2nd half yesterday out of possession we often looked like this:

Cavani - Fred

Sancho - Bruno - Matic - Greenwood
​

The first game against Palace was like this:

Ronaldo - Rashford
Bruno -----‐------------ Sancho
Fred ---- McT
​

With Fred sometimes pushing higher than McT, occasionally getting level with or higher than the 2 AM's but comfortably deeper than Rashford and Ronaldo so it became like a diamond (occasionally it was McT who pushed up and Fred sat back).

​

I'm not sure how in your imagination Ronaldo or Rashford were dropping into midfield, let alone a flat midfield 4. I'd be amazed if we ever see Ronaldo in line with Matic shielding the back 4

You can find analysis vs Palace here , or here , vs Norwich here ir here

 

[Bestietom]

Great engine but his passing is erratic.

 

[Ekeke]

This simply didn't happen, there are plenty of analysis videos you can find on YouTube.

2nd half yesterday out of possession we often looked like this:

Cavani - Fred

Sancho - Bruno - Matic - Greenwood
​

The first game against Palace was like this:

Ronaldo - Rashford
Bruno -----‐------------ Sancho
Fred ---- McT
​

With Fred sometimes pushing higher than McT, occasionally getting level with or higher than the 2 AM's but comfortably deeper than Rashford and Ronaldo so it became like a diamond (occasionally it was McT who pushed up and Fred sat back).

​

I'm not sure how in your imagination Ronaldo or Rashford were dropping into midfield, let alone a flat midfield 4. I'd be amazed if we ever see Ronaldo in line with Matic shielding the back 4

You can find analysis vs Palace here , or here , vs Norwich here ir here

I saw it myself, im not looking to adopt someone else's opinion based on youtube highlights. Watch the matches instead

 

[Trequarista10]

I saw it myself, im not looking to adopt someone else's opinion based on youtube highlights. Watch the matches instead

Christ, we all watched the matches pal. Get off your arrogant high horse and accept when you're wrong. Nobody else has seen Ronaldo or Rashford drop into centre midfield. Rewatch them if you have to. I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing any more. Please detail how you think we were shaped out of possession in the first few games under Ralf.

 

[Smores]

Fred leading the press was a good idea if you don't notice that his CM partner was Matic and out of breath for the whole half.

Once Fred was taken out far up in the field, the middle was free for all. Not that we were solid with both of them in their own positions. But, yeah leaving Matic way too deep with Fred way to high was a weird tactical plan especially not reworking it after we were luckily 2 -0 up with about 20 mins to go.

This

Matic and Cavani tiring and Sancho coming on meant our lines weren't as good and gaps started to form.

Fred or the manager needed to recognise this and start to drop into a proper midfield two. VDB should have come on tasked with doing Freds job and Fred dropped back really.

I get the impression if we had a proper midfielder we may have done that but Rangnick doesn't see VDB as playing that position.

Not really Fred's fault nor Matic, simply a massive limitation of the squad Ole built.

 

[Pickle85]

I swear people seem to be watching a different game sometimes. Without Fred's energy in midfield I think you'd have been overrun. Now there's more to being a midfielder than just energy but honestly, if you put all your problem players in order of importance I don't think Fred would be anywhere near the top.

Agreed entirely. He's very frustrating to watch...can be super loose with his passing and lacks physicality but is definitely not in our top five problems.

 

[Zevvythered]

Fred would be better working for one of the railway companies as a hand signaller, never seen a player in my life raise his hands as much to apologise to his team mates!!!

What a shambles of a club we have become, another 50 million down the drain.

 

[Ekeke]

Christ, we all watched the matches pal. Get off your arrogant high horse and accept when you're wrong. Nobody else has seen Ronaldo or Rashford drop into centre midfield. Rewatch them if you have to. I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing any more. Please detail how you think we were shaped out of possession in the first few games under Ralf.

Clearly you didnt watch the matches if this is the first time you've seen Fred pressing as one of our front players

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

The midfield trio are way under the standard required for a United midfield.

Until these are replaced with quality then I'm afraid we will continue to get dominated in midfield by most teams.

Fred gets the most stick because he actually tries harder than the other two and makes more mistakes because of it.

None of them are good enough but out of the three I would keep Fred.

 

[VanDeBank]

Christ, we all watched the matches pal. Get off your arrogant high horse and accept when you're wrong. Nobody else has seen Ronaldo or Rashford drop into centre midfield. Rewatch them if you have to. I'm not even sure you know what you're arguing any more. Please detail how you think we were shaped out of possession in the first few games under Ralf.

What, you're aware the tactics for this match can be different than the games you're referring to, right?

 

[CloneMC16]

This

Matic and Cavani tiring and Sancho coming on meant our lines weren't as good and gaps started to form.

Fred or the manager needed to recognise this and start to drop into a proper midfield two. VDB should have come on tasked with doing Freds job and Fred dropped back really.

I get the impression if we had a proper midfielder we may have done that but Rangnick doesn't see VDB as playing that position.

Not really Fred's fault nor Matic, simply a massive limitation of the squad Ole built.

Fred is doing what he's been asked to do. He never played like this under Ole. I agree that VDB should have been brought on to do the job. Cavani should have been subbed to make it happen. The squad should have more options in midfield, but I still blame Rangnick for his awful subs. I'm not blaming Ole when the in game management on show has been awful.

Fred would be better working for one of the railway companies as a hand signaller, never seen a player in my life raise his hands as much to apologise to his team mates!!!

 

[Trequarista10]

What, you're aware the tactics for this match can be different than the games you're referring to, right?

That's literally exactly what I'm saying.

 

[VanDeBank]

That's literally exactly what I'm saying.

Sorry mate, it got confusing.

So what do you think of Fred? Is he the same guy that starts for Brazil or is he our worst player of all time?

 

[Trequarista10]

Clearly you didnt watch the matches if this is the first time you've seen Fred pressing as one of our front players

What the hell are you even arguiing? My opening post was out of possession in the 2nd half we were shaped in a 442 with Fred next to Cavani pressing the CBs. That is completely different to Fred's usual pressing, which would generally be to push high behind the front line, to pressure the opposition's DM or even to double with our wingers against a full back. Your response was that Fred did the same (as against Villa) from out very first game under Ralf which he simply didn't.

 

[Trequarista10]

Sorry mate, it got confusing.

So what do you think of Fred? Is he the same guy that starts for Brazil or is he our worst player of all time?

No worries

I can see why managers find him useful, his running stats must be insane. His ball control consistently let's him down though which is costly at this level. I pondered the question earlier, and it's a genuine question not one I have formed an opinion on, whether the huge amount of running he does for us has a negative impact on his composure on the ball. Not that he'd be Pirlo if he pressed less, but I wonder if he'd make less simple mistakes if he did a bit less pressing. His heart rate must be consistently through through the roof during games and his legs muscles must be in pain. Which is a catch 22 for him and us though, because without his pressing he wouldn't be particularly useful.

Overall I think he's below the standard required to be a regular at this level. He could be used occasionally at this level in specific situations where we need his pressing, but I think you'd have to have two capable ball players in centre midfield with him to cover his deficiencies, and essentially have him as an extra midfielder causing havoc.

 

[Acole9]

Happy for him to stick around as a squad option but not as a starter. Him and McTominay are both hard workers but that's all they are. They're getting shown up far too often.

Pretty much every midfielder I've seen us linked with would be an upgrade on those two.

 

[lex talionis]

Rinse and repeat. By no means was Fred’s performance shocking, but it is shocking that refuse to do anything to strengthen our midfield, which is the obvious weakness in the squad, although our front and back lines aren’t that far behind in incompetence.

 

[Ekeke]

Fred's trademark

https://i.gyazo.com/6c8f99f0a47e52e652782b456b1694ef.mp4

 

[Lecland07]

Unfortunate not to end with 2 assists. The first goal was extremely important today as we didn't look anywhere near scoring at that point. It sort of came out of nowhere,

Far from certain we would have won without that.

 

[Raven]

Lovely assist.

 

[OL29]

Turning into an end product merchant.

 

[UncleBob]

Shit, got an assist.

 

[Litch]

He is what he is…..but whilst some in the fan base won’t like him, every single manager he plays under recognises what he brings to the team and that’s why he plays….

 

[Foxbatt]

Was terrible apart from that assist.

 

[KennyBurner]

Worldclass. keep crying

 

[diarm]

It was a fine assist, but on the evidence of the rest of the game, I'm fairly sure he was trying to pass it to Telles.

 

[Ekeke]

Good pass for the goal and competed well for the ball. Much better than his previous 3 or 4 games

 

[Relevated]

Worldclass. keep crying

At what?

 

[Ali Dia]

He’s class. You guys don’t deserve him. Too many of this fan base would rather watch more fashionable players walking around playing selfishly and doing not a lot. Fred gets stuck in and sometimes it doesn’t come off. Big deal

 

[Lecland07]

Despite him supposedly being really bad, he won the ball more than any player, other than Dalot, (both had 7 combined tackles and interceptions) and he created the most important goal of the match.

He should have ended with a second assist, also.