[NoLogo]

The weird part is that on a good day I would say he brings all the things we are looking for in a midfield partner for Cas, the problem simply is that he doesn't have those good days regularly enough and if he isn't at his best he is usually really awful.

 

[Borys]

My point is our goal is to dominate most games. And in that case Fred doesn't offer anything.

How is that working for us this season with Eriksen from your perspective? I would argue we dominated games more with Fred on the pitch than Eriksen. Again, back to Pogba situation.

It’s not even about just controlling games. Even if you aren’t able to pin an opponent in thread box for 80% of games ala City and Arsenal, first touch, passing, composure and intelligence are all crucial aspect of what’s needed from a midfielder. Which is why Eriksen has been first choice and Fred hasn’t. Not sure what’s hard to grasp about this.

We have two elegant, intelligent midfielders with great passing ability and get overrun regularly. I am surprised so many people are willing to ignore this.
With Fred on the pitch we get more control over midfield area, but we lose some passing ability from deep. Last game vs Chelsea Eriksen made one great pass forward which put us 3 vs 2, seems like ETH is willing to ignore all other aspects / weaknesses from Eriksen because he knows he WILL deliver that pass at least once per game. At least that's how I see it.

I certainly don't think Fred had worse season than Eriksen.

 

[jesperjaap]

It's one thing getting them relegated to squad options, and another to get rid completely.
McTominay should be gone because he's kept mainly for his physical attributes (he's NOT a Casemiro backup) which hopefully we won't need next season. But getting rid of Fred makes sense only if we get a decent amount of money for him. Otherwise, it's worth keeping him IMO.

He's also one of a few players who can last 90' of intensive football. He'll be fine for another few years. He's also never injured. He is worth 5years contract for some clubs surely.

Because he's been getting silent treatment from Ten Hag. Even after some good performances he's been dropped as soon as Eriksen got back, and featured very little. There's also no talk over contract extension and I doubt we will run down his contract.
Safe to assume Erik made up his mind about a few players and they've been told to look for a club.

Huge fee and hugely underwhelming? We paid 60m €, he's been a good servant for the last 4 years. He actually has the same number of goals contributions as Antony and he played 30% less football! He actually contributes to a goal every 180 minutes, that is a good return for any midfielder.

He escaped a lot of criticism? If you read through this thread you will see people are surprised by his high level like this never happened before. He's been criticized plenty, in fact our fans seem to remember only the bad stuff as he is the symbol of Ole era when we played dreadful footbal, BUT him and McTominay had to cover for Rashford, Greenwood and Martial doing ZERO defensive work.

Reading this thread and match day, I feel like people still judge him as first XI player. He's not good enough to be the main player = get rid. Fred is actually a perfect squad player, I bet he isn't on high wages, contributes in every area of the pitch, never complains, and always gives his best. I don't know if he deserves a new contract, depends on who we bring in.
Do you think we should get rid of Fred and rely on Eriksen to bring in for the last 20-30mins, for example in a game like yesterday? It's quite interesting how are we planning to use Christian next season by the way.

Yes he has escaped a lot of criticism and gets credit hidden behind empty stats just liek you have given and where on earth are you pulling these stats from anyway as I find it hard to believe he contributes to a goal ever two game and what is "contributes" anyway as you didnt state assist, what absolute nonsense.

This is a player who cost us over £60m and was sgned very much as a first eleven player and he is on £130K a week, not a huge salary but hardly a small one. Its strange to me that we look back o midfielders who failed here over the years yet some of the current ones who havent been anywhere near as good "work hard" "are good squad players" "good servants".....I know we cant domiante all the time, but why are we accepting mediocrity which is what Fred has been at best as he has stayed for his lucrative contract, worked hard and had spells of good performances over four years, is that what you accept from a £60m outlay? He has been a failure here there is simply no getting away from the fact, he hasnt been good enough....what would I do with him, replace him, should have happened a couple of seasons ago and again this summer we over spent on certain players so he has been replaced with a central midfielder on a free at a certain age that......we need to replace

 

[L1nk]

Would much prefer to keep him as a backup than McT if we had to keep one, but McT is younger and is considered homegrown so that works in his favour. Then again we might end up selling both of them because I cannot imagine McT is going to be happy to be sat on the bench and reports of teams like Newcastle already in for him. We could do with upgrading both to be fair.

I'd sell Fred, McT and DVB, not buy Sabitzer and bring in 2 midfielders, a 6 and an 8 and maybe bring back Hannibal. Hard not to like Fred though even if he is a waste of space a lot of the time

 

[amolbhatia50k]

How is that working for us this season with Eriksen from your perspective? I would argue we dominated games more with Fred on the pitch than Eriksen. Again, back to Pogba situation.


We have two elegant, intelligent midfielders with great passing ability and get overrun regularly. I am surprised so many people are willing to ignore this.
With Fred on the pitch we get more control over midfield area, but we lose some passing ability from deep. Last game vs Chelsea Eriksen made one great pass forward which put us 3 vs 2, seems like ETH is willing to ignore all other aspects / weaknesses from Eriksen because he knows he WILL deliver that pass at least once per game. At least that's how I see it.

I certainly don't think Fred had worse season than Eriksen.

We get overrun at times regardless of who plays in midfield however the combination which has performed the best in 22/23 is Casemeiro-Eriksen-Bruno. The manager has rightfully made those three his first choice midfield.

Having said we have to upgrade on Eriksen for the upcoming season and the answer certainly isn’t Fred who has been behind him in the pecking order.

 

[Borys]

Yes he has escaped a lot of criticism and gets credit hidden behind empty stats just liek you have given and where on earth are you pulling these stats from anyway as I find it hard to believe he contributes to a goal ever two game and what is "contributes" anyway as you didnt state assist, what absolute nonsense.

This is a player who cost us over £60m and was sgned very much as a first eleven player and he is on £130K a week, not a huge salary but hardly a small one. Its strange to me that we look back o midfielders who failed here over the years yet some of the current ones who havent been anywhere near as good "work hard" "are good squad players" "good servants".....I know we cant domiante all the time, but why are we accepting mediocrity which is what Fred has been at best as he has stayed for his lucrative contract, worked hard and had spells of good performances over four years, is that what you accept from a £60m outlay? He has been a failure here there is simply no getting away from the fact, he hasnt been good enough....what would I do with him, replace him, should have happened a couple of seasons ago and again this summer we over spent on certain players so he has been replaced with a central midfielder on a free at a certain age that......we need to replace

What is nonsense? 6 goals + 5 assists from fringe player over 2200 minutes? Are you saying that same number of goal contributions from Antony in over 3000 minutes is nonsense as well? What does count as a stat for you?

 

[Litch]

All depends on whether you are buying a player to push to start or keeping a player who is happy to come off the bench. The issue is how and when you use Fred and I think ETH is clearer about that after this season. Fred lows are pretty low but equally his highs are pretty high too.

Arguably our best games under Ole and ETH, Fred has been a significant feature with a few MOTM performances including Spurs this season.

 

[Berbaclass]

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[BehemothTerror]

Fred is such a weird player. Absolute baller when playing well but his bottom level is on the floor. Would still stay McTominay is the one we should move this summer though as Fred has done more despite McT doing well until Casemiro got up to speed.

 

[arthurka]

He and McT will both leave.

 

[jesperjaap]

What is nonsense? 6 goals + 5 assists from fringe player over 2200 minutes? Are you saying that same number of goal contributions from Antony in over 3000 minutes is nonsense as well? What does count as a stat for you?

Aha so now you arent labelling the stat as "contributions" you are giving goals and assists. Thanks you, instead you mask the stat by giving it in minutes rather than apeparances, come on stop manipulating stats to suit your agenda, that is exactly what is nonsense.

Here is the stat, he has scored 5 goals in 35 premiership appearaces, doesnt look so good then does it....not that is is especially relevant anyway, which is why also nonsense you are comparing the stat to Antony when they are in toally different positions. He is a central midfielder.

Forget "stats" the only question I would ask, is do you think £60m has been money well spent for somebody you yourself are now labelling as a fringe player? Until this season he hasnt been really, not until the last few months really.

I know cant really compare transfers over history as they have gone up pretty much every year (I mean the £60m we spent on him is probably more like £70m now). But Fred is still in the top 10 most expnsive transfers we have made....only four players cost more than we paid for Fred before we signed him, Fred was a very big transfer at the time so yes he has been a huge disaapointment, before you say it, yes pretty much all the others before him were too, which would be a fair comment....what isnt fair is comparing Antony in hsi first season over a fiive year career here, dont understand that at all....well, obviousloy you dont liek Antony

 

[croadyman]

He and McT will both leave.

What is your gut feeling on VDB situation

 

[Bebestation]

What is your gut feeling on VDB situation

I don’t see anyone wanting him to be honest.

He wasn’t exactly easy to sell or put on loan after we got him and now he is after injury then I doubt we can just turn around and get clubs interested in buying him.

Maybe literally selling him to Ajax for 5 million maybe what’s plausible - but I think for that type of money then Ten Hag might even keep him considering he knows how to use him.

 

[Borys]

Aha so now you arent labelling the stat as "contributions" you are giving goals and assists. Thanks you, instead you mask the stat by giving it in minutes rather than apeparances, come on stop manipulating stats to suit your agenda, that is exactly what is nonsense.

I don't understand what you're picking at. This isn't rocket science, I don't think term "goal contribution" needs to be explained to anyone on football forum.
It's simple, he's a squad player what is reflected in his minutes/games. Therefore, it's only fair to calculate goal contribution per 90'. Is that something you would disagree on?
Showing G+A per game is manipulating stats in this situation.

Here is the stat, he has scored 5 goals in 35 premiership appearaces, doesnt look so good then does it....not that is is especially relevant anyway, which is why also nonsense you are comparing the stat to Antony when they are in toally different positions. He is a central midfielder.

I don't know where you took 5 goals from. Anyway, 1249' minutes in 35 games equals to ~36minutes played in a game on average. If you still think it's right to represent number of goal contributions per game rather than per minute, it's simply ridiculous.

11 goals for a midfielder is far more impressive for a midfielder than an attacker. Would you disagree?

Forget "stats" the only question I would ask, is do you think £60m has been money well spent for somebody you yourself are now labelling as a fringe player? Until this season he hasnt been really, not until the last few months really.

I know cant really compare transfers over history as they have gone up pretty much every year (I mean the £60m we spent on him is probably more like £70m now). But Fred is still in the top 10 most expnsive transfers we have made....only four players cost more than we paid for Fred before we signed him, Fred was a very big transfer at the time so yes he has been a huge disaapointment, before you say it, yes pretty much all the others before him were too, which would be a fair comment....what isnt fair is comparing Antony in hsi first season over a fiive year career here, dont understand that at all....well, obviousloy you dont liek Antony

I don't think we've done badly with Fred. He was our best midfielder over the last 4 years, which doesn't say much but still this is the case. If we get 10-20m for him in the summer, I'd say this is good bit of business and certainly wouldn't label him as a "failure". I will leave Antony bit without a comment, I mentioned him because they have the same goals contribution - one plays as part of the attacking formation, the second plays in midfield.

Anyway, back to the point - Fred is close to a perfect squad player, that is my opinion on him. If we get an upgrade on him then great, but he is also massively underrated on here. I trust him to ofo the job as much as Eriksen, who should be nowhere near the first XI next season as well.

 

[arthurka]

What is your gut feeling on VDB situation

He is staying not because we don't want to sell only because no one is dumb enough to buy.

 

[Kostov]

Real Madrid buying Bellingham, while they have Modric, Kroos, Valverde, Camavinga and Tchouameni, and there are United fans on here that still debate whether a player of Fred's quality should be offered a new deal. Levels.

 

[jesperjaap]

I don't understand what you're picking at. This isn't rocket science, I don't think term "goal contribution" needs to be explained to anyone on football forum.
It's simple, he's a squad player what is reflected in his minutes/games. Therefore, it's only fair to calculate goal contribution per 90'. Is that something you would disagree on?
Showing G+A per game is manipulating stats in this situation.



I don't know where you took 5 goals from. Anyway, 1249' minutes in 35 games equals to ~36minutes played in a game on average. If you still think it's right to represent number of goal contributions per game rather than per minute, it's simply ridiculous.

11 goals for a midfielder is far more impressive for a midfielder than an attacker. Would you disagree?


I don't think we've done badly with Fred. He was our best midfielder over the last 4 years, which doesn't say much but still this is the case. If we get 10-20m for him in the summer, I'd say this is good bit of business and certainly wouldn't label him as a "failure". I will leave Antony bit without a comment, I mentioned him because they have the same goals contribution - one plays as part of the attacking formation, the second plays in midfield.

Anyway, back to the point - Fred is close to a perfect squad player, that is my opinion on him. If we get an upgrade on him then great, but he is also massively underrated on here. I trust him to ofo the job as much as Eriksen, who should be nowhere near the first XI next season as well.

Well I obviously totally disagree on Fred so not going to continue going round in circles, I do agree that Eriksen shouldnt be in the first eleven the season coming though

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Real Madrid buying Bellingham, while they have Modric, Kroos, Valverde, Camavinga and Tchouameni, and there are United fans on here that still debate whether a player of Fred's quality should be offered a new deal. Levels.

I think that for many fans, it's a case of what gets the job done now vs what should be. We're discussing this as if the midfield is the only area on the pitch where modern football demands high energy levels. But, if you recall some threads over the years, this squad (or a part of it) doesn't really like running, tracking back, committing to regain possession etc. That's when Fred has often come in handy during his time here.

I generally agree with you. While i don't believe that Eriksen is the answer for us (he's not a natural midfielder, but seems to follow that weird trend of attacking-minded players being converted into midfielders under SAF), i believe we should learn to look ahead, and past the game vs City. Some of our most prominent players excel at one or two things and they're pretty average at everything else. So, ETH (and Solskjaer before him) kept adding and subtracting qualities in all thirds of the pitch, hoping that the total will be a plus in the end. This is the discussion about Fred. But, in the end, a team that can take the best out of Eriksen's qualities in the midfield will always be better than a side that needs Fred's patching and stitching.

In a way, the Caf has always been like that. Even before the age of Pep and Klopp in the PL, several fans never really warmed up to the Carrick-Scholes/Giggs partnership and were arguing about the need for physicality at the centre of the park. For the most part, they got what they wanted. And we are where we are.

 

[DanielofLeyland]

Fred will have some resale value. Not good enough for United but good enough for a level below. Sell him and bring in some money to help with the summer transfer window.

 

[RedBanker]

Real Madrid buying Bellingham, while they have Modric, Kroos, Valverde, Camavinga and Tchouameni, and there are United fans on here that still debate whether a player of Fred's quality should be offered a new deal. Levels.

Don't you know it's a crime to have levels as a United supporter?

 

[Borys]

Well I obviously totally disagree on Fred so not going to continue going round in circles, I do agree that Eriksen shouldnt be in the first eleven the season coming though

You can disagree but you can't ignore his really good output as a squad player.

I think that for many fans, it's a case of what gets the job done now vs what should be. We're discussing this as if the midfield is the only area on the pitch where modern football demands high energy levels. But, if you recall some threads over the years, this squad (or a part of it) doesn't really like running, tracking back, committing to regain possession etc. That's when Fred has often come in handy during his time here.

I generally agree with you. While i don't believe that Eriksen is the answer for us (he's not a natural midfielder, but seems to follow that weird trend of attacking-minded players being converted into midfielders under SAF), i believe we should learn to look ahead, and past the game vs City. Some of our most prominent players excel at one or two things and they're pretty average at everything else. So, ETH (and Solskjaer before him) kept adding and subtracting qualities in all thirds of the pitch, hoping that the total will be a plus in the end. This is the discussion about Fred. But, in the end, a team that can take the best out of Eriksen's qualities in the midfield will always be better than a side that needs Fred's patching and stitching.

In a way, the Caf has always been like that. Even before the age of Pep and Klopp in the PL, several fans never really warmed up to the Carrick-Scholes/Giggs partnership and were arguing about the need for physicality at the centre of the park. For the most part, they got what they wanted. And we are where we are.

On the bolded part - you can't look at a player in isolation to what system he plays in. We as United have been guilty of being "top heavy" team, meaning we had top 3 of Rashford, Greenwood and Martial. No wonder McFred was a more effective for us than Pogba +1.

We are still very lightweight in midfield with Eriksen, I am actually quite surprised people still think he is the right choice in big/away games. Fred helps us to get the ball back quickly and makes it difficult to play through. This is a good attribute from a squad player. And this has huge impact on the balance of the team, even if we lose some passing ability from midifeld.
City don't play high possession football only because they can pass it around for 90, but also because they have energy and are good at getting the ball back. We play tennis games with Casemiro-Eriksen midfield in way too many games. I am sure we would do better in those with Fred - Casemiro pairing.

We actually "peaked" this season in games vs Barca and Newcastle with Casemiro-Fred pairing, and yet most of people on here are willing to give up on Fred (as squad player, I repeat) so easily.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

You can disagree but you can't ignore his really good output as a squad player.


On the bolded part - you can't look at a player in isolation to what system he plays in. We as United have been guilty of being "top heavy" team, meaning we had top 3 of Rashford, Greenwood and Martial. No wonder McFred was a more effective for us than Pogba +1.

We are still very lightweight in midfield with Eriksen, I am actually quite surprised people still think he is the right choice in big/away games. Fred helps us to get the ball back quickly and makes it difficult to play through. This is a good attribute from a squad player. And this has huge impact on the balance of the team, even if we lose some passing ability from midifeld.
City don't play high possession football only because they can pass it around for 90, but also because they have energy and are good at getting the ball back. We play tennis games with Casemiro-Eriksen midfield in way too many games. I am sure we would do better in those with Fred - Casemiro pairing.

We actually "peaked" this season in games vs Barca and Newcastle with Casemiro-Fred pairing, and yet most of people on here are willing to give up on Fred (as squad player, I repeat) so easily.

As i mentioned earlier, we've got to look beyond the City game and what further patching up work can a manager think of to meet the base requirements for a club of our size. I said this to another poster, that's exactly the line of thinking that has kept so many players here for so long.

I fully agree with your assessment on McFred during the Solskjaer era. That's why, when everyone were licking their lips over the Rashford/Martial/Greenwood attacking trident, i was being very sceptical. It was basically two - borrowing the term from basketball - "catch & shoot" players alongside a third one who's just meandering on the edge of the box. All three of them offering very little off the ball, and needing a "free role" creator to be constantly feeding them. This is what made McFred a necessity for Solskjaer, six players doing all the defending and four doing all the attacking. But that's the whole point. The moment you make players like Fred and McT so integral to your first-team plans, you are doing something wrong. From that point onward, it's easy to blame Ronaldo's arrival for everything going tits up. Ronaldo made it even easier with his antics. But the truth is that the design was wrong all along.

Should Fred start against City? Probably. But i'm relieved that ETH is still screaming for a new #8 and has also inquired about Mount. Which means that we'll have De Jong/Rabiot as the starting #8 with Eriksen as his cover. There's also the option of playing Bruno deeper, with Mount a bit ahead of him and Case. Add someone like Caicedo two years down the line, and it all starts looking prettier. The insistence on Antony and Sancho also indicates that we also envision an attack that can string a few passes together against set defences. In other words, the tanker seems to be slowly changing direction. If we can get 30 million for a player who won't have much game time under ETH, even better. United should really learn to do that part of the transfer business well.

 

[MadMike]

I don't think I would offer him a new deal, but I don't see the point in selling him this summer either. He's a 30yo squad player, on the final of his contract at a probably slightly inflated salary (as typical of players at Utd). He will not fetch any money in the market and he will cost a lot more to replace. He has a higher value to us then the money he will fetch.

While he is not a starter he is, undoubtedly for me, the best and most valuable from the bunch of squad midfielders that we currently have. And I mean him, McTominay and VDB. So I would focus on selling McTominay who has some sale value and seemingly some suitors, as well as VDB (though he might have to leave on loan for now). We can then focus on replacing those with a starting quality midfielder or two and that will keep Fred and Eriksen largely on the bench.

 

[El Jefe]

He and McT will both leave.

The day has finally come where this is a reality.

Midfielders who you want on the ball as little as possible have no business being here. I don't care how hard you work, our standards should be higher.

I can never fault Fred's effort but I'll be happy to no longer see his misplaced passes (especially with his right foot) and terrible shooting from outside the box.

 

[Borys]

As i mentioned earlier, we've got to look beyond the City game and what further patching up work can a manager think of to meet the base requirements for a club of our size. I said this to another poster, that's exactly the line of thinking that has kept so many players here for so long.

I fully agree with your assessment on McFred during the Solskjaer era. That's why, when everyone were licking their lips over the Rashford/Martial/Greenwood attacking trident, i was being very sceptical. It was basically two - borrowing the term from basketball - "catch & shoot" players alongside a third one who's just meandering on the edge of the box. All three of them offering very little off the ball, and needing a "free role" creator to be constantly feeding them. This is what made McFred a necessity for Solskjaer, six players doing all the defending and four doing all the attacking. But that's the whole point. The moment you make players like Fred and McT so integral to your first-team plans, you are doing something wrong. From that point onward, it's easy to blame Ronaldo's arrival for everything going tits up. Ronaldo made it even easier with his antics. But the truth is that the design was wrong all along.

Should Fred start against City? Probably. But i'm relieved that ETH is still screaming for a new #8 and has also inquired about Mount. Which means that we'll have De Jong/Rabiot as the starting #8 with Eriksen as his cover. There's also the option of playing Bruno deeper, with Mount a bit ahead of him and Case. Add someone like Caicedo two years down the line, and it all starts looking prettier. The insistence on Antony and Sancho also indicates that we also envision an attack that can string a few passes together against set defences. In other words, the tanker seems to be slowly changing direction. If we can get 30 million for a player who won't have much game time under ETH, even better. United should really learn to do that part of the transfer business well.

Did we look like a patched up team against Barca/Newcastle though (games Fred started with Casemiro)? I don't think so. I think we gave them a good game. A few more in which Fred started actually this season.
Again, I think this season Fred has been contributing regularly to goals so I don't think it's fair to call him a "patch".

I agree with your post in general, it's just now we see a different Fred - finally playing to his strengths and getting a good return actually. He was told to do the mopping in the past with MMM up front, as was McTominay (who I don't rate at all as a midfielder). But the way he played football was a because of "six players doing all the defending and four doing all the attacking" like you said.

I like the idea of new #8, we definitely need a better/more physical partner for Casemiro. HOWEVER, you still need someone to be a "patch" every now and then - do we seriously believe Eriksen will be doing that role next season? This is my only concern and why I'd consider giving Fred a new contract. I certainly don't think we will get 3 new midfielders this season. If we do I have no problem with letting Fred go.

I don't think I would offer him a new deal, but I don't see the point in selling him this summer either. He's a 30yo squad player, on the final of his contract at a probably slightly inflated salary (as typical of players at Utd). He will not fetch any money in the market and he will cost a lot more to replace. He has a higher value to us then the money he will fetch.

While he is not a starter he is, undoubtedly for me, the best and most valuable from the bunch of squad midfielders that we currently have. And I mean him, McTominay and VDB. So I would focus on selling McTominay who has some sale value and seemingly some suitors, as well as VDB (though he might have to leave on loan for now). We can then focus on replacing those with a starting quality midfielder or two and that will keep Fred and Eriksen largely on the bench.

Exactly this. With one year left he will be sold for peanuts, and we would still need to replace him. He is 30 years old but he is also one of the very few players who can last 90' of intense football and is never injured. This is the concept of "squad player".
Considering we NEED Casemiro backup and a new partner for him, do we really want to spend money on Fred replacement as squad player? We're not getting one for less than 30-40m anyway. I mean, with unlimited budget, sure.

 

[jesperjaap]

You can disagree but you can't ignore his really good output as a squad player.


On the bolded part - you can't look at a player in isolation to what system he plays in. We as United have been guilty of being "top heavy" team, meaning we had top 3 of Rashford, Greenwood and Martial. No wonder McFred was a more effective for us than Pogba +1.

We are still very lightweight in midfield with Eriksen, I am actually quite surprised people still think he is the right choice in big/away games. Fred helps us to get the ball back quickly and makes it difficult to play through. This is a good attribute from a squad player. And this has huge impact on the balance of the team, even if we lose some passing ability from midifeld.
City don't play high possession football only because they can pass it around for 90, but also because they have energy and are good at getting the ball back. We play tennis games with Casemiro-Eriksen midfield in way too many games. I am sure we would do better in those with Fred - Casemiro pairing.

We actually "peaked" this season in games vs Barca and Newcastle with Casemiro-Fred pairing, and yet most of people on here are willing to give up on Fred (as squad player, I repeat) so easily.

You still havent got passed the fact Fred is a £60m squad player, you talk about him as if he was a cheap signing.

I see the Tyler Adams thread he is being slated as a poor signing. He is a limited player, but for me not even including the age, he is better positionally, better tackling, more intelligent, consistent than Fred. He costs probably half the price and he would more than likely come on a much lower weekly wage. This is why I don’t agree with your narrative of him being such a valuable squad player at all.



And no, I don’t actually want us to sign him, just an example.

 

[Borys]

You still havent got passed the fact Fred is a £60m squad player, you talk about him as if he was a cheap signing

But what does it change? Should we sell him now because he wasn't a hit? He certainly isn't a failure like Pogba or van de Beek.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Did we look like a patched up team against Barca/Newcastle though (games Fred started with Casemiro)? I don't think so. I think we gave them a good game. A few more in which Fred started actually this season.
Again, I think this season Fred has been contributing regularly to goals so I don't think it's fair to call him a "patch".

I agree with your post in general, it's just now we see a different Fred - finally playing to his strengths and getting a good return actually. He was told to do the mopping in the past with MMM up front, as was McTominay (who I don't rate at all as a midfielder). But the way he played football was a because of "six players doing all the defending and four doing all the attacking" like you said.

I like the idea of new #8, we definitely need a better/more physical partner for Casemiro. HOWEVER, you still need someone to be a "patch" every now and then - do we seriously believe Eriksen will be doing that role next season? This is my only concern and why I'd consider giving Fred a new contract. I certainly don't think we will get 3 new midfielders this season. If we do I have no problem with letting Fred go.



Exactly this. We can either sell him for 10m (1 year left on his contract), or extend his contract and sell him in 2 years for 5m. This really isn't a bad deal. He is 30 years old but he is also one of the very few players who can last 90' of intense football and is never injured. This is the concept of "squad player".
Considering we NEED Casemiro backup and a new partner for him, do we really want to spend money on Fred replacement as squad player? We're not getting one for less than 30-40m anyway. I mean, with unlimited budget, sure.

We looked good against Barcelona and Newcastle, two sides which, despite the obviously different approaches, both enjoyed successful seasons by focusing more on executing the defensive aspects of their game well. And just like us, they'll need to step up a few gears and build on that. Which means the lines will have to be higher, the passes quicker, the decision-making better, and the one-touch football perfected down to a T. Fred isn't your player for that.

We don't need more physicality. What we need is to move the ball quicker, make others do the running by chasing the ball around. We also need someone able to receive the ball out of the back and be able to either carry it or play it through the lines consistently and without OT holding its breath. We're thin in the midfield, i'll give you that. And, as i mentioned, Fred has his uses. But, it kind of is similar to the Maguire situation back in 20/21. We finished 2nd on 74 points and we also reached the EL final. The consensus was that Maguire was having a very good season. I bet you remember that half the Caf had lost its marbles when he got injured before the final. All in all, it was all justified. Maguire was our man at the back and played a crucial role in our build-up. Until Licha came in and we finally saw the speed/frequency required to play the passes from the back and how important it is to have a proactive CB.

I think that ETH never got past his first two performances. I still remember that, during the pre-season, he was referring to Fred as "the connector". Now, Fred's performances wasn't the only bad thing in these opening two fixtures. But, in those games, in which we tried to go all-in with ETH’s style, he really was atrocious. And just like LvG before him (most players from the MK Dons debacle were shown the door), and other Dutch managers, it wouldn't surprise me, had Erik made up his mind at that moment. Plus, i think we can fetch north of 20 million for him. Unlike others, Fred can attract interest from the bottom half of the table.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Overall, he was another poor signing, to add to our list of poor signings over the past decade.

However, he has had some good periods and he actually had some very good games this season. I would certainly be open to keeping him as a squaddie for another year. He seems a professional sort, and he isn't going to kick up a fuss if he doesn't see much game-time. Anyone who thinks we are going to get rid of him and McT and get in 3 midfielders, is living in lala land.

 

[Oranges038]

I can't fathom how anyone who has watched this clown for the last 4 or 5 years can think he's worth keeping. He's almost 30 and hasn't improved one bit since he got here.

Best thing ETH did was remove him Maguire and McT from the starting line up as soon as possible.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Overall, he was another poor signing, to add to our list of poor signings over the past decade.

However, he has had some good periods and he actually had some very good games this season. I would certainly be open to keeping him as a squaddie for another year. He seems a professional sort, and he isn't going to kick up a fuss if he doesn't see much game-time. Anyone who thinks we are going to get rid of him and McT and get in 3 midfielders, is living in lala land.

Agree with that, especially the bolded part.

He's had some good moments here and this season in particular he had some very impressive performances, Spurs and Barcelona at home spring to mind. But for the money we spent on him you can't really call him anything but a bad signing and a let down.

Wasn't he £50mish? You'd expect more than an inconsistent squad player for that.

edited the price, thanks @Idxomer

 

[Idxomer]

I thought he cost 47m, at least that's what the BBC reported at the time.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I thought he cost 47m, at least that's what the BBC reported at the time.

I believe it was 47 plus bonuses that eventually took it to 60 million pounds. We paid about the same money and similar add-ons for Bruno, if you can believe it.

 

[Based Adnan]

Up there with the likes of Young, Smalling, Fellaini etc. The type of signings that resulted in us falling behind as a club.

Simply playing lots of games is not a measure of success.

 

[Borys]

We looked good against Barcelona and Newcastle, two sides which, despite the obviously different approaches, both enjoyed successful seasons by focusing more on executing the defensive aspects of their game well. And just like us, they'll need to step up a few gears and build on that. Which means the lines will have to be higher, the passes quicker, the decision-making better, and the one-touch football perfected down to a T. Fred isn't your player for that.

We don't need more physicality. What we need is to move the ball quicker, make others do the running by chasing the ball around. We also need someone able to receive the ball out of the back and be able to either carry it or play it through the lines consistently and without OT holding its breath. We're thin in the midfield, i'll give you that. And, as i mentioned, Fred has his uses. But, it kind of is similar to the Maguire situation back in 20/21. We finished 2nd on 74 points and we also reached the EL final. The consensus was that Maguire was having a very good season. I bet you remember that half the Caf had lost its marbles when he got injured before the final. All in all, it was all justified. Maguire was our man at the back and played a crucial role in our build-up. Until Licha came in and we finally saw the speed/frequency required to play the passes from the back and how important it is to have a proactive CB.

I think that ETH never got past his first two performances. I still remember that, during the pre-season, he was referring to Fred as "the connector". Now, Fred's performances wasn't the only bad thing in these opening two fixtures. But, in those games, in which we tried to go all-in with ETH’s style, he really was atrocious. And just like LvG before him (most players from the MK Dons debacle were shown the door), and other Dutch managers, it wouldn't surprise me, had Erik made up his mind at that moment. Plus, i think we can fetch north of 20 million for him. Unlike others, Fred can attract interest from the bottom half of the table.

You're still indicating I'm trying to convince anyone Fred is a first XI player. He's not, I don't know how many times I mentioned this already - I see him as squad/fringe player and that is exactly the role he played this season, and he played it well.

Strongly disagree about the bolded part, we definitely need more energy especially if Casemiro is still our main midfielder.

On the last paragraph - ETH has only himself to blame if he saw Fred as "a connector" (to be honest, similar experiments failed badly with Eriksen and Sabitzer). I remember having those conversations at the beginning of the season - that he's another one who needs to try Fred as DM only to figure out he's not the man to do that job. He found him a perfect role later on and got a good return on that.

Again, I see Fred as a very good squad player and nothing more. I just don't think we will buy 3 midfielders this summer, and I also don't see Eriksen as someone who can do some "patching" job that Fred does very well.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

You're still indicating I'm trying to convince anyone Fred is a first XI player. He's not, I don't know how many times I mentioned this already - I see him as squad/fringe player and that is exactly the role he played this season, and he played it well.

Strongly disagree about the bolded part, we definitely need more energy especially if Casemiro is still our main midfielder.

On the last paragraph - ETH has only himself to blame if he saw Fred as "a connector" (to be honest, similar experiments failed badly with Eriksen and Sabitzer). I remember having those conversations at the beginning of the season - that he's another one who needs to try Fred as DM only to figure out he's not the man to do that job. He found him a perfect role later on and got a good return on that.

Again, I see Fred as a very good squad player and nothing more. I just don't think we will buy 3 midfielders this summer, and I also don't see Eriksen as someone who can do some "patching" job that Fred does very well.

I'm not trying to do anything, mate. I agree with the bulk of your analysis on Fred's seasons with us, and i even said so. We have to keep in mind that this squad is still pretty far away from what ETH ideally wants us to play. And we know that from the first two games of the season when we tried the high possession/high pressing tactics. After that, we reverted to known practises to get some results and build some confidence and then we moved a bit forward, but never tried anything close to those two opening games. In which Fred had a nightmare.

I beg to differ about physicality. It's like saying that we wouldn't take Gundogan or Kroos and play them in our midfield. I believe the links to Mount point toward ETH thinking about his high possession tactics. You don't implement these by running, you do it by having as many possession-safe players on the pitch as possible. This allows better positioning and it leads to better spacing on the pitch.

Fred may stay as a squad player, there's nothing wrong with that. But, if someone puts 20-30 million on the table, i'd personally put him in the box and wrap the ribbon ASAP. And i never said anything about getting three midfielders in a single window. Sell Fred, get Mount/new #8 in, and next season add someone like Caicedo. It's doable, even for the morons who run United. If we get lucky with an academy product coming through the ranks, we can ship McTominay out sooner rather than later, too.

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

I love Fred. F the haters. He's a great squad player to have who gives it his all every time he hits the pitch.

 

[Malkovich]

Can't believe how some still equate him to McTominay like they are the same entity or something. If they do in fact leave, let's just see which of the two gets a respectable offer and plays big minutes in a PL side.

 

[Based Adnan]

Such a low IQ player this guy. You can tell De Bruyne was begging for Fred to foul him for their second goal and obviously he'll happily oblige. Did the exact same thing a minute after the goal as well.

Hopefully his last game for us.

 

[Hulme91]

50 million btw. You can find his skillset in the Championship for less than 10