Rangnick seemed to learn that he can't play as the deepest midfielder. He's too erratic on the ball and loses it too much to play there. He can be effective higher up the pitch but today he was awful.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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That "pass" today for the brighton player in the 1st half that somehow Brighton didn't score from. Disaster
He's a poor player in general but my god I don't think I've seen a player with such a poor bottom line play so consistently for United.
His normal game is barely passable as a Premier League midfielder but his bad performances are inexplicable. He can't control a ball, he can't pass the ball, his decision making is braindead and he has no awareness of what's going on around him. So much so that I'm screaming at his teammates not to pass him the ball in a variety of circumstances that you'd expect a professional to be competent at dealing with.
Whether I'm screaming for De Gea not to pass him the ball, because I know he's got a tendancy to play a loose first time pass or for the ball to bounce several yards off his shin; or whether it's anyone within 40 yards of the goal as he's likely to attempt a shot with zero of success.
You want him as far from your own goal as possible whilst simultaneously as far from the opposition goal as possible.
His normal game is barely passable as a Premier League midfielder but his bad performances are inexplicable. He can't control a ball, he can't pass the ball, his decision making is braindead and he has no awareness of what's going on around him. So much so that I'm screaming at his teammates not to pass him the ball in a variety of circumstances that you'd expect a professional to be competent at dealing with.
Whether I'm screaming for De Gea not to pass him the ball, because I know he's got a tendancy to play a loose first time pass or for the ball to bounce several yards off his shin; or whether it's anyone within 40 yards of the goal as he's likely to attempt a shot with zero of success.
You want him as far from your own goal as possible whilst simultaneously as far from the opposition goal as possible.
Not good enough, we still have time to get some players in.
I'd like to see rationale for playing him as DM, since we've learnt so many times he's only effective in B2B free role. This is EXACTLY what I expected to happen in a serious game where Fred is put into deep midfield.
The only thing that surprises me is the decision to make him play that role.
Also I'd like to understand what is the setup we're going to play if de Jong comes, considering de Jong plays with a DM. Is it going to be Fred?
The only thing that surprises me is the decision to make him play that role.
Also I'd like to understand what is the setup we're going to play if de Jong comes, considering de Jong plays with a DM. Is it going to be Fred?
De Jong is the DM and he played Fred there because everyone else is worse
And so the Fred as a 6 roundabout continues. I believe the last full circle was away to Wolves in Ole's first season in 2019.
In 2025, EtH's successor will try the same experiment, with the same result and it will still keep happening until Fred's contract runs out or he retires, because goodness knows we won't actually sell a player that's been proven to not be good enough.
In 2025, EtH's successor will try the same experiment, with the same result and it will still keep happening until Fred's contract runs out or he retires, because goodness knows we won't actually sell a player that's been proven to not be good enough.
Big Fred fan but that was shocking.
He isn’t a 6.. definitely seems to panic in that position. Play him as a box to box midfielder and he’ll be fine.
I don't think de Jong is a DM though? I've checked quite a few times and he never plays as the deepest midfielder. So it's confusing how are we planning to use him.
We don't need to play with DM anyway, just the second midfielder needs to drop as deep as Fred and this is what used to work for us (two defensive minded B2B). We always struggle with a single DM.
So De Jong and Fred
Perfect summary
Basically if we could restrict his role to just running around in the middle third, and making decoy runs elsewhere but the team collectively agreed to not pass to him unless he has an open goal, he'd be very useful.
That role is so important for ETH's football that he has to pick the better one there. So even though Fred isn't good enough, he's still much better than Scott.
De Jong played as the deepest starting midfielder at Ajax. He would collect the ball from CBs or even drop into a LCB position and work his way forwards. Schone started in front of him positionally but was equally or more defensively capable. De Jong didn't really fit into Barca's system which requires a lone DM, which is why he's available. Fred and De Jong would actually be a good partnership imo, as they'd balance each other quite well, relieve Fred of the deep lying playmaker duties, and Fred would provide plenty of running and assistance to support De Jong defensively. A Fred upgrade in time would also be ideal of course.
OK thanks, that makes it more clear what's the idea behind it.
I have a panic every time he receives it there. Lost count of the amount of times he gets into trouble in that position.
He’s not good enough. End of discussion for me.
Fair. I still think wasting this whole transfer window chasing one player is stupid. It could cost us a lot of points over the next few games. The fact that we had to move Eriksen there says it all. The club needs to stop messing around and buy some players.
Fred is not DLP, neither DM. If ETH wants to play him regardless then he should be somewhere further up. Bruno is shit anyway so may be try benching Bruno and play Fred as AM.
Its something he's done throughout his time here. Fred gives the balll away in dangerous areas either by overconfidence in using his right foot in tight spots or usually by getting dispossessed after a loose touch.
He's been here for four seasons now, he is what he is and that's a busy, energic but sloppy and erratic midfielder. None of that will change no matter the manager or position he plays.
Fred wouldn’t get near any of the other top 6 midfields, and we’ve got him trying to dictate play from deep. Laughable.
Abysmal today. The look on his face after he came off looked like he felt the same.
I generally like him, but today was worrisome. He was awful.
I generally like him, but today was worrisome. He was awful.
I believe its the old "Fresh start under a new manager" that sees our failing players return each season
Manager plays Fred DM, eventually after loads of easy misplaced passes, poor controls and ball losses due to bad awareness when people are pressing him the manager doesnt want to use him as DM anymore. Then he gets fired.
New manager!
Manager plays Fred DM, eventually after loads of easy misplaced passes, poor controls and ball losses due to bad awareness when people are pressing him the manager doesnt want to use him as DM anymore. Then he gets fired.
New manager!
I'd say because he has the speed to make recovery runs and cover more space by himself.
he always does that. A tradition of his.
I think he gets underrated a bit, but he was diabolical today.
A shocker.
A shocker.
Was poor today but is not a 6 - we may need to sell him if we aren't going to use him as a B2B or pressing AM because some of his natural abilities (energy, running, presing) seems to make every manager think they can play him as a 6 deep vs buyign an actual 6. He plays ok to very well for us higher up as a 8. He is not calm or consistent enough to play as the last CM and after 3 years everyone at the club should know this.
But this isn't how DM plays, is it? I mean, when I think about DMs like Fabinho, Rodri, Busquets, Casemiro etc they are not that quick to cover a lot of ground and their recovery pace is hardly an asset. Kante, who seems like a similar player to Fred, was deployed in a rather free B2B role but more on the defensive side.
Making Fred play no6 position is like forcing a sprint runner to run a marathon. Yes he can do it, but you can see from the start he's not going to be effective AND your sprint runners team also is weakened.
This was totally expected but I guess ETH needs to try those things for himself. Doesn't make it less of a mistake.
Typical Fred performance, sloppy passing, loosing 50/50's, poor positional discipline.
He cant play as the lone 6. The only position he can play is where mctom played today, that would be his best posistion in this system. Please not as a lone 6 its always a car crash.
He cant play as the lone 6. The only position he can play is where mctom played today, that would be his best posistion in this system. Please not as a lone 6 its always a car crash.
Really bad. Terrible on the ball and targeted by the opposition again for their press.
There also seems to be this idea that Fred is good at winning the ball back...I see no evidence of this. All I see is a slow, weak bloke being swatted away by opponents like a fly consistently.
There also seems to be this idea that Fred is good at winning the ball back...I see no evidence of this. All I see is a slow, weak bloke being swatted away by opponents like a fly consistently.
The pass he played to Maguire before the Mctominay howler tackle was hilarious. Just had to pop it in front of him but somehow ended up killing any momentum by knocking the easiest ten yard pass behind instead. This is half the battle with our team. The passing just seems off, it just seems awkward and lacks any sort of anticipation. No wonder though with non functioning midfielders like Mcfred and chase and run merchants like Rashford. Just no footballing IQ. These guys are just not good enough, but here we are years later still playing them.
He gets underrated?
He's one of the worst midfield players we've had in my 33 years of memory supporting the team.
Are people not seeing the amount of balls he gives away every match!
I think he'd struggle to get in most sides in the Premier league.
But he starts for Brazil, don't you know that? Brighton did not get the memo on that little detail by the looks of it.
I like Fred, when he's on his game he's a good player.
But he's the Bailly of midfield. You can tell from the first minute whether it's just going to be 1 of those days for them.
I'm not sure if it's nerves or what, but he just looked jittery. His passing and decision making was well off.
The next game he might look world class, but it's this wishy washy consistency that makes it so hard for us to get a grip on the game.
I couldn't believe how many times Fred + Mctominay were giving the ball away in the first half.
But he's the Bailly of midfield. You can tell from the first minute whether it's just going to be 1 of those days for them.
I'm not sure if it's nerves or what, but he just looked jittery. His passing and decision making was well off.
The next game he might look world class, but it's this wishy washy consistency that makes it so hard for us to get a grip on the game.
I couldn't believe how many times Fred + Mctominay were giving the ball away in the first half.
Yeah. He's overrated, if anything.
Not that that's a bad thing, necessarily. I'd prefer the internet be overly nice to our players rather than overly nasty.
But it's very noticeable when he was in with a shout for being the worst player on the pitch and yet his player performance thread barely has a page of replies - compared to multiple pages for teammates who were no worse on the day.
In any case, I'm pinning some of the blame on EtH for playing him in the wrong position.
Fred wrongly gets tarred with the same brush as Mctominay. Fred's not the problem. He's not a DM. He's a box to box player who's good at breaking up the play but he's not the player to shield the defence. Put him in any of the other top sides and he'd excel. Put Mctominay in any of the other top sides and he'd still be poor. McTominay is the problem. Put Fred higher up the pitch in front of a quality DM and he'd be a very good player for us.
Really disappointing performance from him, although he was not alone in that respect.
To echo what many others have said, he needs to be played further up the pitch. He often looks isolated when playing in a DM role. Mctominay, as he often does, went missing again and provided Fred with zero support whatsoever.
I'm still hopeful he can do better as the season goes on but we are really crying out for that decent DM that a player such as Fred can be put in front of.
To echo what many others have said, he needs to be played further up the pitch. He often looks isolated when playing in a DM role. Mctominay, as he often does, went missing again and provided Fred with zero support whatsoever.
I'm still hopeful he can do better as the season goes on but we are really crying out for that decent DM that a player such as Fred can be put in front of.
He's hopeless, amazed that so many rate him and say he gets a raw deal.
I'm not too fuzzed about his "performance". He's playing with a McTominay, a player that averages 12 touches a game.
Yes, Fred isn't a world beater, but he could be decent next to an actually footballer. No point in writing him off before that's been tried.
Yes, Fred isn't a world beater, but he could be decent next to an actually footballer. No point in writing him off before that's been tried.
He's just too rash and doesn't know when to back off. Defensive positioning is non-existent. For all his faults at least he gives his best all the time and looks as though he cares.
Don't know if we really should apply lessons from our golden 4-4-2 days (with the double pivot) in todays football. I am with you, I don't think, FDJ should be seen as some sort of DM - I also don't have a good feeling about him next to Fred as two defensive minded B2B players. The B2B role in the PL requires more energy, I don't think FDJ has that. And while I am sure, he will be aweseome with once we have the ball, I feel we would be laughably open once we lose it. Fred is a chaos player, you put him close to opposition buildup mechanism (be that balls to FBs or a pivotal player in midfield or even in defense) and let him work, but he has no positional awareness what so ever as he is so ball focussed.
The setup yesterday didn't do him any favors as he wasn't exactly deployed next to McTom but rather behind McTom and Eriksen. But, as soooo fecking often, the distances grew larger and larger making it impossible to play through the center at some point. That being said - he wasn't good yesterday, no question about it.
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