Fred & Pogba behind Fernandes? Will it work?

luke511

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
6,887
Fred & McTominay behind Fernandes will do just fine for me. Sell Pogba and reinvest in areas we need strengthening. The guy doesnt want to be here
Ideally that'd be the case but in the current climate no one's buying Pogba..We can't really have a world class player (on his day) sat on the bench when he could be potentially winning a game for us. If the trio doesn't work then then it'd be incredibly harsh to drop Fred, hopefully with plenty of rotation everyone gets their share of game time anyway. Pogba can always fill in for Fernandes when he needs a rest too.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
11,147
Fernandes and Pogba isn't the dilemma, it's whether Fred can maintain his game as the deepest midfielder out of the 3.
I feel he could do a job there without much attacking duties. We'll have to see but I can see him or McTom being solid when focused purely on protecting the backline.

Fred & McTominay behind Fernandes will do just fine for me. Sell Pogba and reinvest in areas we need strengthening. The guy doesnt want to be here
Well the manager seems to want him here and we won't be seeing much, if any, high profile transfers this window whenever it comes so...
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,340
Fred & McTominay behind Fernandes will do just fine for me. Sell Pogba and reinvest in areas we need strengthening. The guy doesnt want to be here
The minute Pogba leaves, we have to strengthen that midfield with 2-3 new buys. Fred-McTominay should be our #2 and #3 or even #3 and #4 CMs if we want to get back to being a top 5 side in world football. A club like Madrid or Barcelona or City have this sort of depth chart:

Pogba-------Bruno (Fred, Grealish)
-------Partey-------- (McTominay)

This is what a top midfield group looks like. A strong starting trio and then a creative #10 that can change a game off the bench or let you play a diamond in Grealish, a quality runner in Fred and a big young prospect who can pass and is already decent and seems capable of consistent improvement but isn't special going forward or as a dribbler/passer type.

Obviously Grealish or Partey could be replaced by several players who fit their molds. But yeah, we need to keep Pogba and add at least one really quality player, probably a #6 unless Fred or McTominay have a semi-surprisingly brilliant year there and the other is a good backup or Matic has a solid final season playing 15-20 games or whatever.

Could also see this sort of thing:

Rashford---Attacker
--------Bruno-----
Fred----------Pogba
----------DM---------

and I have no idea if the attacker would be Martial, Greenwood or a signing. Ole seems to be a manager interested in defensive flexibility like Zidane or Emery rather than someone like Klopp or Pep trying to impose their will/tempo on other teams.
 

Bilbo

TeaBaggins
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
14,208
Ideally that'd be the case but in the current climate no one's buying Pogba..We can't really have a world class player (on his day) sat on the bench when he could be potentially winning a game for us. If the trio doesn't work then then it'd be incredibly harsh to drop Fred, hopefully with plenty of rotation everyone gets their share of game time anyway. Pogba can always fill in for Fernandes when he needs a rest too.
This is true. We are unlikely to be able to sell Pogba, but I think people are generally underestimating how good our present midfield 3 could become.

It doesnt sit well with me how quickly we are all looking to 'upgrade' those two players. We've seen plenty of evidence recently that those two along with Matic can be a more than adequate foundation for the attacking four to do their thing.

Do we need to sign another midfielder if Pogba goes? Yes we do. I dont necessarily think we should be looking to sign a starter though. Adding Grealish and/or Kalvin Phillips or Bellingham would leave us with a perfectly fine set of options for a new season.
 

Borussia Teeth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
532
I think Fred (or McT) can play as the pivot behind Bruno and Pogba in a Midfield 3. I do accept that this negates some of his (or their) natural game; pressing, harrying etc but Fernandinho was once an attacking midfielder for Shaktar, then more of a box to box at City until pep arrived. The same can be said of Fabinho. He was a box to box in a 2 for Monaco and was able to adapt his game to play as the pivot for Liverpool. Even our very own Carrick played most of his football in a 2, Fergie would drop him in behind Scholes and Fletcher for big games. It wasn't until Van Gaal arrived that he was playing there consistently. I think Fred and McT are worth a try there.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sultan

andersj

Nick Powell Expert
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
4,275
Location
Copenhagen
Domenec Torrent, Guardiola’s assistant for nearly 10 years, explains one potential problem that City are experiencing now, having previously avoided it.

If you play with very wide full-backs, and wingers inside, you have to control the No 8s, but if the No 8s are very talented but less defensive, then normally you’re going to have some problems,” he tells The Athletic, reflecting the tackling stats of De Bruyne, Silva and Gundogan. “Pep plays 4-3-3 but people don’t realise that Pep always has a full-back inside and always defends with at least four or five players.

“I’m not sure if people realise that it’s 4-3-3 but, above all, when Fabian Delph or Zinchenko played last season, when City had the ball Zinchenko went into a double pivot with Fernandinho, and Walker, John Stones and Laporte were there, so for example three at the back and two in front of them, so five defenders. So they controlled it perfectly. When you have both full-backs going forward, which Pep never does, when you have the two full-backs, the two wingers, the striker is the fifth, and the two No 8s, you have seven men forward and you defend with three, and that’s a problem.”

Read this in The Athletic this morning. Could it be a solution for us?

We could play Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof/Bailly in defence. Matic and AWB as cover at the back. And Fred between Pogba and Fernandes. Martial and Rashford upfront. Fernandes drifting more right. Or you could drop Fred (or Matic) and play three up front. A bit depending on the game.

Fred is not that well-suited for providing balance to the midfield, and is not a great defender. Neither is he a very productive attacker. However, he is a very good transitional player, linking defence to attack. Putting him in between Matic/AWB as a link to Pogba/Fernandes would be interesting. If that dont work because we lack width (or because we marginalise Fernandes pushing him too wide) we could switch him for Mata/Greenwood/James and get in a RW.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Won't work for as long as Pogba doesn't take defending seriously.
One of the biggest misconceptions going. Pogba does his defensive work when working with an adequate partner.
 

RooneyLegend

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
12,963
One of the biggest misconceptions going. Pogba does his defensive work when working with an adequate partner.
Its not a misconception. Not sure what his partner has to do with anything. He regularly let's players run off him. Strangely enough, this doesn't happen when he's playing for France and when he was playing for Juve.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Its not a misconception. Not sure what his partner has to do with anything. He regularly let's players run off him. Strangely enough, this doesn't happen when he's playing for France and when he was playing for Juve.
Having a momentary switch off isn't neglecting your defensive work. The stats back it up that he does more than his fair share.

His tackles/interceptions when playing deep are always very similar to his "more defensive" partner.

You say it's strange because it didn't happen for France/Juve, well that's because he didnt neglect it then either. It's just you over analyzing tiny passages of play that you wouldn't bother highlighting if he played elsewhere. EVERY player has a moment.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
Bruno Fernandes doesnt just roam as CAM though does he? He drops back more than any CAM I've seen in recent times to defend almost like a traditional CM does.

Ole gives this weird 'freedom to his players that Ive not seen before with many managers - it first looked like the players were not being coached but then the players started to all improve by their ability to impose themselves on the pitch the way they wanted to.

Both attacking wise and defensively - I think this is very underrated to give a freedom to players rather than to be imposed in a whole plethora of tactics like city's possession football.

Pogba can be free to impose himself attacking wise whilst Bruno Fernandes drops back in to stop gap with Fred, Pogba attacking as a CAM position and losing the ball isnt going to be easy to get past.


I will say though - I feel like people heavily underestimate how important the 352 is to us and maybe in Ole's eyes. He's uses it in consistently against the big boys so I do expect him to buy a new hybrid CDM player that can play deep as CB, so we can utilize that tactic more frequently.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,576
Location
Croatia
I hope that Pogba will stay. Because that midfield will be amazing to watch. That can be our best midfield post Keane-Scholes era.
 

edcunited1878

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
8,935
Location
San Diego, CA
Ole mentioned that Bruno could play anywhere in central midfield, so it could be Fred and Bruno behind Pogba. Just think playing with one CM and two ahead leaves the CB pairing a bit exposed, hence United going with 3 at the back for solidarity purposes.

If it was a diamond midfield, would have Matic, Fred, Bruno, and Pogba. Or swap Pogba with Bruno as Bruno pops up in really spaces for himself and teammates. Bruno can be a foil with his movement and Pogba picks his passes off of his movement, causing opposition backlines to get pulled apart.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,576
Location
Croatia
Ole mentioned that Bruno could play anywhere in central midfield, so it could be Fred and Bruno behind Pogba. Just think playing with one CM and two ahead leaves the CB pairing a bit exposed, hence United going with 3 at the back for solidarity purposes.

If it was a diamond midfield, would have Matic, Fred, Bruno, and Pogba. Or swap Pogba with Bruno as Bruno pops up in really spaces for himself and teammates. Bruno can be a foil with his movement and Pogba picks his passes off of his movement, causing opposition backlines to get pulled apart.
It can be Fred as dmc and Pogba and Bruno as two no8s or no10s. Like City is playing with Fernandinho behind Silva and De bruyne. I know that some people don't trust Fred on no6 position but i think that he would be good there. Especially because of Pogba's style of play where he always comes deep to get the ball.
 

sp_107

New Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,367
Location
Yorkshire
It might work but wondering if they have legs to cover the ground especially after becoming daddy’s recently.i know the sleepless nights will have some kind of impact.

Can someone tell me is it in the water of north west that everyone moves over there made their partners pregnant .

Herrera, Darmian, Smalling, Lukkau, Pogba, Martial, Fred, Matic, Lindelof and now Maguire all became Dad’s since they moved to UTD, not sure if I miss anyone else.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
29,263
Location
Birmingham
Ole mentioned that Bruno could play anywhere in central midfield, so it could be Fred and Bruno behind Pogba. Just think playing with one CM and two ahead leaves the CB pairing a bit exposed, hence United going with 3 at the back for solidarity purposes.

If it was a diamond midfield, would have Matic, Fred, Bruno, and Pogba. Or swap Pogba with Bruno as Bruno pops up in really spaces for himself and teammates. Bruno can be a foil with his movement and Pogba picks his passes off of his movement, causing opposition backlines to get pulled apart.
Said the same about Pogba too.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-hints-at-paul-pogba-positional-switch

Think in Bruno and Pogba, we have two midfielders that can possibly rotate throughout the game, but I'd prefer Pogba deeper simply because of his long range passing ability.
 

Borussia Teeth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
532
Said the same about Pogba too.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-hints-at-paul-pogba-positional-switch

Think in Bruno and Pogba, we have two midfielders that can possibly rotate throughout the game, but I'd prefer Pogba deeper simply because of his long range passing ability.
I agree with this. I think we could use what seems to be Ole's preferred shape with the 2 holding mids. Pogba and Bruno can rotate depending on the situation within the game. It will require coaching and understanding but I believe it can work. I also think Fred could play behind the other 2 as I have aluded to in another post.