Frenkie de Jong | 4th lever pulled | Barca still short.. | next lever selling fan base off?

  • The day many of you wished for has finally come - Match Day Score Predictions are no longer restricted to just 5 goals... *

    * The timing of this change is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with any perception of underperformance by any team in recent matches or fan pessimism, justified or otherwise, for future matches. (Probably).

Frenkie to United?


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  • Poll closed .

roseguy64

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He could sign a new contract with them on lower terms if he wants to stay there. Maybe that why they are being so vocal about it to put pressure on him.
Doubt a new contract will be enough. They need the transfer fee too.
 

VanDeBank

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Not like he's getting benched by some scrubs either. Busquets, one of the best to ever play his position, and Pedri, one of the best young players in the world, are his competition.
He's not benched, he starts.
 

Jam

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It's not as simple as him picking his club.

The few clubs he would realistically choose over us have to be after a central midfielder of his type, be willing to pay his wages, and be willing to pay the fee to Barca. A lot of our potential competitions will just have other priorities. Hopefully if we did have competition he'd also have a preference for the premier league over France/Italy/Germany but that's an unknown. Realistcally Ten Hag will have already spoken to him so there must be some indication there's a decent chance he's coming, if he'd told us "your team's too shit and not in CL, I'm not joining" we'd have killed this story before it even started. I think it's happening.
Not to be too pessimistic as there is obviously some truth to this, and he is potentially willing to join us I think he wants to see what else is on offer.

Weirdly I think Pogba holds a lot of cards in this situation based on where he choses to go. But back to FDJ I think City are interested but not deeply since it’s a big commitment they don’t need, Madrid is a no, Bayern is probably a no due to the wages, Liverpool is a no due to the wages, Chelsea seemingly aren’t linked and have midfielders

He’s left with us, PSG and Juve. PSG have the money and CL, did Juve end up getting CL? Either way PSG/Juve are the two big Pogba options too.

I think our best hope is Pogba choses PSG. And between us and Juve the ETH factor could come into play, he’s given assurances team will be built around him and that one year out of the CL will be worth it.

Or FDJ looks at the current options and agrees a negotiated contract with Barce like other players have, with some back dated pay.
 

Hammondo

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Not to be too pessimistic as there is obviously some truth to this, and he is potentially willing to join us I think he wants to see what else is on offer.

Weirdly I think Pogba holds a lot of cards in this situation based on where he choses to go. But back to FDJ I think City are interested but not deeply since it’s a big commitment they don’t need, Madrid is a no, Bayern is probably a no due to the wages, Liverpool is a no due to the wages, Chelsea seemingly aren’t linked and have midfielders

He’s left with us, PSG and Juve. PSG have the money and CL, did Juve end up getting CL? Either way PSG/Juve are the two big Pogba options too.

I think our best hope is Pogba choses PSG. And between us and Juve the ETH factor could come into play, he’s given assurances team will be built around him and that one year out of the CL will be worth it.

Or FDJ looks at the current options and agrees a negotiated contract with Barce like other players have, with some back dated pay.
They don't do the same role, so they are not competing against each other for the same position in a team.
 

Jam

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They don't do the same role, so they are not competing against each other for the same position in a team.
What team will sign both Pogba and FDJ in one window? None.

It doesn't matter they aren't identical, Juve or PSG would only go for one of them and adjust their plans around that.
 

Esquire

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There's are huge difference in not wanting to come here and not having planned it.
Sure, you seem to think he is coming. I very much doubt it, especially when he will have other suitors and doesn’t want to come to a crap club like ours at the moment. Your guess is as good as mine.
 

RedRonaldo

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Normally I don’t think he would want to come to us as we are a club in transition and in deep mess.
However it’s all up to how ETH could convince him with our new project.
 

sherrinford

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You know that De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot at Ajax right? Not as lone 6. I was trying to replica what ETH did with De Jong at Ajax playing in double pivot.

Here quote from ETH himself why FDJ doesn't play as ''lone'' no 6. I think you thought that he played in Busquets's role, technicall yes to dictate the tempo but there are differences, Busquets actually didn't leave his spot to go forward like FDJ at Ajax.


I think this discussion is happening because of some lack of understanding of FDJ role in 18/19. FDJ's role was more similar to Libero than Deeplying-playmaker. Deeplying playmaker don't leave their spot to go forward. Look at the pictures below of 3 different positions of FDJ when Ajax on the ball. Sometime, he was the deepest one, sometime he was on the same line as Schone (no 20) or sometime he dribbled the ball forward.




Everything I've said about the kind of player I feel De Jong is and how he is best utilised refers to him in a double pivot, as does anything I've said about how he played at Ajax. For example:

Schone was the no.8 to De Jong's no.6. How they moved and positioned themselves depended on exactly how the opposition set up. When De Jong dropped into the backline, Schone would occupy De Jong's space in front of the defence. Sometimes both would occupy parallel positions at the base of midfield, and sometimes Schone would make a run forward or occupy a higher position in order to give De Jong space to operate. The opposite, however, wasn't something they looked to do - De Jong would seldomly look to operate in a more advanced midfield area with Schone behind him.

De Jong used his dribbling as another means of progressing the ball from deep areas. After creating the angle for a good pass or space for a teammate in an advantageous position he would release the ball and continue in or return to a deep midfield position. When the side was in advanced areas, he would maintain depth as the anchoring player at the base of midfield. He was very disciplined, no less so than Schone. When I say that De Jong excels more in a two in a 4-2-3-1, I meant in comparison to playing as the single pivot in a 4-3-3, and in a similar way to how all-action no.6's such as Keane, Schweinsteiger, Matic or Kimmich suit playing in a two more.
In those games De Jong was clearly the deepest midfielder, Van de Beek clearly the most advanced, and the overall shape of the midfield clearly most accurately described as a deeper midfield two behind said advanced midfielder - 4-2-3-1, 2-1 midfield formation, midfield triangle with the point forward, two no.6s behind a no.10, two no.8s behind a no.10, two no.6s behind a no.8. Any of these descriptions give a reasonable idea of the general shape of that side. Don't mistake the grouping of De Jong and Schone together as meaning it wasn't easy to see who the deeper operator was though, as it was.
If, by DM, you mean a destructive holding midfielder ala Makelele, I would say the opposite is true - De Jong will never truly work with one!

De Jong is at his best as the first function midfielder. Ideally he has a defensively oriented player alongside him in a deep midfield pair, just not another first function midfielder. Someone like Vieira, Essien, Gattuso, Herrera, Khedira, Javi Martinez. Kante is the most complimentary player I can think of for pairing him with. Fred and McTominay would not be perfect but both would work I think.
Playing with a holding midfielder (which I'm presuming Kamara is) is not replicating the Ajax set up and is not catering to De Jong's strengths.
 

GreatDane

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Sure, you seem to think he is coming. I very much doubt it, especially when he will have other suitors and doesn’t want to come to a crap club like ours at the moment. Your guess is as good as mine.
I'm an optimist still, despite the previous years shitshow.
 

B. Munich

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O think I read somewhere that it was like 375k, definitely upwards of 300k euros.
A lot players at Bayern get 300k Euro or more.
Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Coman, Sané, Hernandez, Kimmich, Goretzka....
Thus, I don't see that as a problem, if Bayern really wants the player.
Now if he wants like over 400k Euro it might become more difficult.
 

Red the Bear

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A lot players at Bayern get 300k Euro or more.
Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Coman, Sané, Hernandez, Kimmich, Goretzka....
Thus, I don't see that as a problem, if Bayern really wants the player.
Now if he wants like over 400k Euro it might become more difficult.
Well s surely hope that that won't be the case then.
 

Lyng

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A lot players at Bayern get 300k Euro or more.
Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Coman, Sané, Hernandez, Kimmich, Goretzka....
Thus, I don't see that as a problem, if Bayern really wants the player.
Now if he wants like over 400k Euro it might become more difficult.

A lot is stretching it. Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Sane and Kimmich are the only ones above 300, and the only one above 370 is Lewandowski.

Goretzka and Hernandez are only on 231.
 

Bogga

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A lot is stretching it. Lewandowski, Müller, Neuer, Sane and Kimmich are the only ones above 300, and the only one above 370 is Lewandowski.

Goretzka and Hernandez are only on 231.
Those poor bastards
 

hellhunter

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When I work evenings, night and weekends I get paid extra. They should have that as well...
I know you're joking, but there were demands in that direction in German football 15-20 years ago. Those greedy bastards really wanted bonus payment for late working hours and working on weekends
 

Unam333

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How I see it, United want him. Barcelona are willing to let him go. De Jong actually doesn't want to leave, but feel pressured into leaving. De Jong actually doesn't want to go to United.

Great then...
 

Adnan

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Graham Hunter is saying that physically he hasn't developed since he was 18, and he's having issues understanding Xavi's positional play principles, where he ends up chasing the ball when Xavi wants him to remain positionally disciplined. Hunter goes on to say that if a club offers around €50m, then Barca may bite. He even thinks that a potential buyer could wait it out and pick him up for cheaper if they stay patient until July due to Barca's need to sell.

 

B. Munich

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Goretzka and Hernandez are only on 231.
Doubt that. Goretzka just signed a new contract until 2026 at 300k Euro. Coman is over 300k Euro too, with Gnabry having the same offer on the table.
Hernandez earns 14 million Euro plus bonus. He will be also above 300k Euro.
 

B. Munich

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Well and then you have the kind of Süle, Martial or Lingard who even don't feel ready to sit on the bench when not being nominated for the starting eleven.
These players have it really hard these days
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Everything I've said about the kind of player I feel De Jong is and how he is best utilised refers to him in a double pivot, as does anything I've said about how he played at Ajax. For example:





Playing with a holding midfielder (which I'm presuming Kamara is) is not replicating the Ajax set up and is not catering to De Jong's strengths.
Ok so explain why in ETH's quote he said that De Jong role is not ''lone'' no 6 as he leaves the middle of the pitch too often? Do you see what I'm saying? Because if De Jong leaves his spot or roam from his spot too often then he's not really a sitter or the holding one in double pivot but it's Schone the one played more the disciplined role.


Basically, De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot alongside another no 6 Schone. Except, De Jong is more a ''libero'', which he was given so much freedom to roam everywhere, while Schone played the disciplined role to hold his position more to accomodate De Jong's freedom to roam.
 

andersj

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Graham Hunter is saying that physically he hasn't developed since he was 18, and he's having issues understanding Xavi's positional play principles, where he ends up chasing the ball when Xavi wants him to remain positionally disciplined. Hunter goes on to say that if a club offers around €50m, then Barca may bite. He even thinks that a potential buyer could wait it out and pick him up for cheaper if they stay patient until July due to Barca's need to sell.

Wonder what he actually mean by that?

I get the impression that EtH, like Klopp and Conte, is really good at playing to their players strenghts. With Pep, and maybe Xavi, I sometimes feel that players to a bigger extent have to adjust to their style of football.
 

Cassidy

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Ok so explain why in ETH's quote he said that De Jong role is not ''lone'' no 6 as he leaves the middle of the pitch too often? Do you see what I'm saying? Because if De Jong leaves his spot or roam from his spot too often then he's not really a sitter or the holding one in double pivot but it's Schone the one played more the disciplined role.


Basically, De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot alongside another no 6 Schone. Except, De Jong is more a ''libero'', which he was given so much freedom to roam everywhere, while Schone played the disciplined role to hold his position more to accomodate De Jong's freedom to roam.
Sounds a bit like another Pogba, a 6 that's needs an actual 6 next to him to do the defending...
 

B. Munich

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Preferably attacker, hence the Mane interest
I think the Mane interest ist bullshit. He is 30 and won't be cheap, if he wants to move at all.
Nagelsmann was looking for 2 midfielders who are "pressing machines".