Frenkie de Jong | 4th lever pulled | Barca still short.. | next lever selling fan base off?

  • The day many of you wished for has finally come - Match Day Score Predictions are no longer restricted to just 5 goals... *

    * The timing of this change is purely coincidental and has nothing to do with any perception of underperformance by any team in recent matches or fan pessimism, justified or otherwise, for future matches. (Probably).

Frenkie to United?


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  • Poll closed .

yamo123x

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Anyone that cant see that Rice is the perfect midifelder for us simply doesnt understand football.
The price is mental but he is an all round player who ticks all the boxes. Id BUY Rice this year, integrate with Fred DVB or MCT. Then go all out for Bellingham next season. Midfield sorted for next 10 years.

De Jong talented no doubt, but in the prem you need phsycality and if we buy him we would still need a defensive minded player.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.
Think your assessment is completely wrong. We have physical midfielders what we lack are players who can get on the ball, keep it under pressure, and control the tempo of the game. We are crying out for a deep playmaker much more than some defensive beast. (Although I will say if we can get a ball player a better ball winner would still be useful).
 

sherrinford

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Ok so explain why in ETH's quote he said that De Jong role is not ''lone'' no 6 as he leaves the middle of the pitch too often? Do you see what I'm saying? Because if De Jong leaves his spot or roam from his spot too often then he's not really a sitter or the holding one in double pivot but it's Schone the one played more the disciplined role.


Basically, De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot alongside another no 6 Schone. Except, De Jong is more a ''libero'', which he was given so much freedom to roam everywhere, while Schone played the disciplined role to hold his position more to accomodate De Jong's freedom to roam.
I addressed all that in my previous post.
 

RatPack

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Think your assessment is completely wrong. We have physical midfielders what we lack are players who can get on the ball, keep it under pressure, and control the tempo of the game. We are crying out for a deep playmaker much more than some defensive beast. (Although I will say if we can get a ball player a better ball winner would still be useful).
I do agree. A deep playmaker. But this is not De Jong. He is an 8.
 

Cassidy

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Think your assessment is completely wrong. We have physical midfielders what we lack are players who can get on the ball, keep it under pressure, and control the tempo of the game. We are crying out for a deep playmaker much more than some defensive beast. (Although I will say if we can get a ball player a better ball winner would still be useful).
I don't think we do, we lack both
 

Cassidy

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Mctominay for all his flaws is an amazing athlete, and Fred regularly covers 11km a game with reasonably high intensity.
That does not make Fred physically strong. And McTominay is one player, who isn't good enough to even be backup here
 

JPRouve

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No he isn't... isn't the issue at Barca that they are playing him as an 8?
It's not an issue per se but you are right, they are using him as an 8 which isn't his best role. And I also agree with you regarding the need for both a deep lying playmaker and physical players, we do lack both.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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I don't think we do, we lack both
We probably do lack both but Fred and McTominay fit much better into the description of 'physical ball winners' than 'technical ball players'. The priority for this team has to be greater control over games and being able to get the ball into midfield under pressure is of the utmost importance to allow that. Much easier to defend when your team is in control.
 

JPRouve

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We probably do lack both but Fred and McTominay fit much better into the description of 'physical ball winners' than 'technical ball players'. The priority for this team has to be greater control over games and being able to get the ball into midfield under pressure is of the utmost importance to allow that. Much easier to defend when your team is in control.
If you swap physical ball winners with terrestrial octopuses, they will fit with the later better than with technical ball players. :angel:
 

Cassidy

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We probably do lack both but Fred and McTominay fit much better into the description of 'physical ball winners' than 'technical ball players'. The priority for this team has to be greater control over games and being able to get the ball into midfield under pressure is of the utmost importance to allow that. Much easier to defend when your team is in control.
And also to not have opposition running through our midfield like butter
 

Cassidy

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And how do City do this you ask? By completely dominating control over the game, not by having a physical beast in DM...
They also have Rodri... and used to have fouling machine Fernandinho.
Not McTominay who vacates the midfield and Fred who is often caught ahead of the ball.
Controlling possession makes you more susceptible to counter attacks if you do not have the right aggression and defensive capabilities in your team
 

AjaxCunian

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De Jong is fine physically. He has great balance, stamina, pace and acceleration.

Even posted as CB before.
 

Dansk

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Anyone that cant see that Rice is the perfect midifelder for us simply doesnt understand football.
The price is mental but he is an all round player who ticks all the boxes. Id BUY Rice this year, integrate with Fred DVB or MCT. Then go all out for Bellingham next season. Midfield sorted for next 10 years.

De Jong talented no doubt, but in the prem you need phsycality and if we buy him we would still need a defensive minded player.
They want £150m for him. It's out of the question. Under no conceivable circumstances are we able to go into next season having signed only one or maybe two players, which would be the case if we went for Rice. We are forced to make 4-6 meaningful signings (i.e. £30m or more) and that's absolutely impossible if we spend £150m on a single player.
 
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Conor

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Anyone that cant see that Rice is the perfect midifelder for us simply doesnt understand football.
The price is mental but he is an all round player who ticks all the boxes. Id BUY Rice this year, integrate with Fred DVB or MCT. Then go all out for Bellingham next season. Midfield sorted for next 10 years.

De Jong talented no doubt, but in the prem you need phsycality and if we buy him we would still need a defensive minded player.
We have a new manager that hasn't managed a single game for us, how can you make such a sweeping statement :lol:
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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They also have Rodri... and used to have fouling machine Fernandinho.
Not McTominay who vacates the midfield and Fred who is often caught ahead of the ball.
Controlling possession makes you more susceptible to counter attacks if you do not have the right aggression and defensive capabilities in your team
Agreed but De Jong is much closer to Rodri than he is Fred or McTominay. Ideally it would be De Jong plus another new player but the fundamental reason City concede so few I because they dominate games through possession and give up very few chances compared to us.
 

Banana Republic

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Think your assessment is completely wrong. We have physical midfielders what we lack are players who can get on the ball, keep it under pressure, and control the tempo of the game. ……
I don't think we do, we lack both
Mctominay for all his flaws is an amazing athlete, and Fred regularly covers 11km a game with reasonably high intensity.
That does not make Fred physically strong. And McTominay is one player, who isn't good enough to even be backup here
We probably do lack both but Fred and McTominay fit much better into the description of 'physical ball winners' than 'technical ball players'.……
And also to not have opposition running through our midfield like butter
…..Not McTominay who vacates the midfield and Fred who is often caught ahead of the ball.……
With the departures, currently we will only have 2 players in the squad.
McTominey and Fred.
4 if you count Donny and a returning, but yet unproven at PL level Garner.
McFred and Donny are woefully lacking in the ball winning and physical department.
McTominey can get physical, but tends to go either go missing, is far too late reacting and getting to the player in possession, or doesn’t get anywhere close enough to be effective when he does.
Fred tries hard, but he’s too short and lightweight and gets outmuscled or bounced off the ball 9 times out of 10. He was always a box2box player and never the DM we often asked him to be.

Look at the other midfield and wide players.
Bruno does press, but more often than not, is hopeless at winning the ball or tackling.
Sancho has shown very little in the defensive or aggression department and Elanga is a young kid just breaking through.

By comparison, just look at who is doing the high pressing and most of the defensive work for City or Liverpool.
Jesus, Mahrez, Silva, de Bruyne, Mane, Jota, Firminho etc, work like terriers, pressing, tackling and swarming like packs, with the likes of Rodri, Gündoğan, Fernandinho, Thiago, Fabinho, Henderson etc, closing down and dominating the central midfield areas.

All of them can combine those duties with playing their part in attacking, possession football.

We need an awful lot of rebuilding and there’s not a lot ahead of the back four that can be salvaged, if we want to be a team that can control possession and dominate midfield like those two teams.
 
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L1nk

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Ajax players past and present saying good luck to our new manager including FDJ, however, no telling when these were filmed whether its this week or when it was announced
 
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Think your assessment is completely wrong. We have physical midfielders what we lack are players who can get on the ball, keep it under pressure, and control the tempo of the game. We are crying out for a deep playmaker much more than some defensive beast. (Although I will say if we can get a ball player a better ball winner would still be useful).
Agreed
 

Banana Republic

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And how do City do this you ask? By completely dominating control over the game, not by having a physical beast in DM...
But how do they dominate possession and maintain control?
The answer is that most of the outfield players (ahead of the back 4), are also work hard at the high intensity, physical side of the game.
The physical beast today, is also a highly technical player.
All the successful top teams have players in that role.

When Pep was at Barca, it was said that his orders were, if you lose possession, the team have no more than 11 seconds to get the ball back.
It’s the same approach at City and with Klopp’s team.
Get possession back quickly and overwhelm your opponents in the transitions.

.
 

B. Munich

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That'll be an attacker most likely
Ideally yes. But there isn't an attacker near the quality of Lewandowski in the market.
That's why shifting Gnabry centrally upfront (what he wants) and strengthening the midfield is an alternative.
Of Laimer won't come, if FDJ is signed. Gravenberch is just 19 so he will need at least a couple of years to become a regular.
 

BrilliantOrange

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I do agree. A deep playmaker. But this is not De Jong. He is an 8.
No, he is not. His perfect position is in a double pivot, where he is the deep lying playmaker with the other one in the pivot being someone who is very tight in positioning and disciplined behind the ball.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Frenkie de Jong is not the player we should be prioritising at the moment and if the stories about him not wanting to come to OT are even half true, we should be steering well clear.

We need at least one reliable, defensive MF.
Preferably two in the 1st team squad, as we just don’t have any ball winners, or players who can stamp their physical authority on a game.
He doesn’t fit the bill.
FDJ would be a great asset for us in a balanced squad, but if his heart isn’t in it……….Next !

.
I will tell you one thing.. Erik Ten Hag will never ever play a player who's main attribute and contribution is to stamp their physical authority on a game.

He wants smart players with defensive discipline and awareness in order to play his attacking football. Therefore Frenkie - in Ten Hags view - needs a smart positionally aware disciplined next to him who stays behind the ball, but this doenst need to be a physical player.