Frenkie de Jong | 4th lever pulled | Barca still short.. | next lever selling fan base off?

  • The day many of you wished for has finally come - Match Day Score Predictions are no longer restricted to just 5 goals... *

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Frenkie to United?


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TrustInJanuzaj

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But how do they dominate possession and maintain control?
The answer is that most of the outfield players (ahead of the back 4), are also work hard at the high intensity, physical side of the game.
The physical beast today, is also a highly technical player.
All the successful top teams have players in that role.

When Pep was at Barca, it was said that his orders were, if you lose possession, the team have no more than 11 seconds to get the ball back.
It’s the same approach at City and with Klopp’s team.
Get possession back quickly and overwhelm your opponents in the transitions.

.
Yes I’m not saying physicality isn’t important. But it will always be secondary to actual technical ability. We have some players (I.e Fred) who can suit a pressing number 8 role. More to the point, how does that description not fit De Jong? He’s big, he’s mobile, he’s energetic and he has incredible quality on the ball. He’s perfect for a pep or Klopp team. First and foremost though it’s his ability on the ball that makes him special and that’s what we need to prioritise.
 

Prodigal7

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Yes I’m not saying physicality isn’t important. But it will always be secondary to actual technical ability. We have some players (I.e Fred) who can suit a pressing number 8 role. More to the point, how does that description not fit De Jong? He’s big, he’s mobile, he’s energetic and he has incredible quality on the ball. He’s perfect for a pep or Klopp team. First and foremost though it’s his ability on the ball that makes him special and that’s what we need to prioritise.
Ten Hag doesn’t use number 8s. He uses two 6s in a 4231. FDJ would be one of those with more license to move up the pitch then his midfield partner.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Ten Hag doesn’t use number 8s. He uses two 6s in a 4231. FDJ would be one of those with more license to move up the pitch then his midfield partner.
Semantics. Fred can also play that role alongside a player like De Jong.
 

DevilRed

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Seems like a dream signing, but also on such high wages for someone who hasn't accomplished much.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Ten Hag doesn’t use number 8s. He uses two 6s in a 4231. FDJ would be one of those with more license to move up the pitch then his midfield partner.
Ten Hag doesnt necessarily play 4231. With Ajax he played different formations over the years, all based on the same principles, but with different nuances in order to play the players in their strenghts.
 

Terranova

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Ten Hag doesn’t use number 8s. He uses two 6s in a 4231. FDJ would be one of those with more license to move up the pitch then his midfield partner.
He used 2 number 8s last 2 seasons though.
 

BrilliantOrange

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It’s no weaker than what ETH put out at Ajax.
Well, if Fred plays in the manner he did this year (making runs forward, getting in the box and pressing higher up the field) then it will definitely be less defensively solid than Schone next to Frenkie at Ajax. Schone álways stayed behind the ball and was never lured out of the centre, which enabled Frenkie to go on adventures... Fred might have more defensive physical qualities then Lasse Schone out of any context, but he would really need to adapt would he provide the same defensive stability in a double pivot with Frenkie as Lasse Schone provided at Ajax.
 

JPRouve

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Well, if Fred plays in the manner he did this year (making runs forward, getting in the box and pressing higher up the field) then it will definitely be less defensively solid than Schone next to Frenkie at Ajax. Schone álways stayed behind the ball and was never lured out of the centre, which enabled Frenkie to go on adventures... Fred might have more defensive physical qualities then Lasse Schone out of any context, but he would really need to adapt would he provide the same defensive stability in a double pivot with Frenkie as Lasse Schone provided at Ajax.
I don't see why he wouldn't, Fred isn't reckless, there is no reason for him to follow instructions. This season and when he plays with McTominay, Fred has to be a bit more box to box otherwise the ball will go nowhere if we have to rely on McTominay.
 

P-Nut

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Well, if Fred plays in the manner he did this year (making runs forward, getting in the box and pressing higher up the field) then it will definitely be less defensively solid than Schone next to Frenkie at Ajax. Schone álways stayed behind the ball and was never lured out of the centre, which enabled Frenkie to go on adventures... Fred might have more defensive physical qualities then Lasse Schone out of any context, but he would really need to adapt would he provide the same defensive stability in a double pivot with Frenkie as Lasse Schone provided at Ajax.
It's tough to find a player that fits next to Frenkie for us. Need someone that will hold the middle of the park, and with a really good passing range
 

BrilliantOrange

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I don't see why he wouldn't, Fred isn't reckless, there is no reason for him to follow instructions. This season and when he plays with McTominay, Fred has to be a bit more box to box otherwise the ball will go nowhere if we have to rely on McTominay.
I think Fred could also do it... Im not sure I would be in favor of it though as I think you wouldnt get the most out of Fred, who on his days is a pressing machine with eye for space in front of him...
 

P-Nut

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I don't see why he wouldn't, Fred isn't reckless, there is no reason for him to follow instructions. This season and when he plays with McTominay, Fred has to be a bit more box to box otherwise the ball will go nowhere if we have to rely on McTominay.
Fred has looked terrible as a holding midfielder, it's why we always looked better with Matic in that role next to Pogba rather than Fred. He's not positional disciplined and it doesn't play to his strengths at all.
 

BrilliantOrange

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It's tough to find a player that fits next to Frenkie for us. Need someone that will hold the middle of the park, and with a really good passing range
It needs some tuning indeed to get a player next to him which allows Frenkie the freedom which would get the most out of him.. Doesnt necessarily have to be a single profile though... At Ajax Schone worked perfectly, at the national team Koeman played Marten de Roon next to him which worked very well against better teams as well.. De Roon and Schone have- even though they are both 'behind the ball midfielders' - very different capabilities..
 

dutchred

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It's tough to find a player that fits next to Frenkie for us. Need someone that will hold the middle of the park, and with a really good passing range
James Garner might be that player
 

Hammondo

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But how do they dominate possession and maintain control?
The answer is that most of the outfield players (ahead of the back 4), are also work hard at the high intensity, physical side of the game.
The physical beast today, is also a highly technical player.
All the successful top teams have players in that role.

When Pep was at Barca, it was said that his orders were, if you lose possession, the team have no more than 11 seconds to get the ball back.
It’s the same approach at City and with Klopp’s team.
Get possession back quickly and overwhelm your opponents in the transitions.

.
Well in terms of distance travelled this season, they are the lowest in the league. Possession football and being organised means you don't need to work as hard.
 

dutchred

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Depends how his game develops, but he has been breaking forward a lot more for Forest. More without the ball than Frenkie but similar operating zones
But he has shown the ability to drop deep and defend when necessary. With the correct coaching he and Frenkie could form a good basis for our midfield for many years. Levitt could also be a backup for both
 

unplayable

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Gündogan is leaving City. Would be surprised if they don't sign De Jong now.
 

croadyman

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Normally I don’t think he would want to come to us as we are a club in transition and in deep mess.
However it’s all up to how ETH could convince him with our new project.
Yeah that last paragraph sums it up perfectly
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Well, if Fred plays in the manner he did this year (making runs forward, getting in the box and pressing higher up the field) then it will definitely be less defensively solid than Schone next to Frenkie at Ajax. Schone álways stayed behind the ball and was never lured out of the centre, which enabled Frenkie to go on adventures... Fred might have more defensive physical qualities then Lasse Schone out of any context, but he would really need to adapt would he provide the same defensive stability in a double pivot with Frenkie as Lasse Schone provided at Ajax.
Yeh I agree and just for clarity I’m not saying Fred is the ideal partner. I’d still prefer we bring in De Jong plus someone else but I do think Fred is more than capable of playing that role of occasion and he should look so much better when he’s next to a proper midfield partner!
 

JPRouve

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Fred has looked terrible as a holding midfielder, it's why we always looked better with Matic in that role next to Pogba rather than Fred. He's not positional disciplined and it doesn't play to his strengths at all.
We haven't always looked better with Matic, we have mainly looked far worse with Matic who has been terrible outside of his six first months and then a couple of games every 4 months.
 

JPRouve

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I think Fred could also do it... Im not sure I would be in favor of it though as I think you wouldnt get the most out of Fred, who on his days is a pressing machine with eye for space in front of him...
Th goal shouldn't be to get the most out of everyone but to get the better setup for 11 players, it generally means that multiple players will have to do a bit more or a bit less than they ideally should. For example would you be against Tchouaméni next to De Jong? A more defensive role would mean that he isn't using all his tools the same applies to Rice and most players.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't see why he wouldn't, Fred isn't reckless, there is no reason for him to follow instructions. This season and when he plays with McTominay, Fred has to be a bit more box to box otherwise the ball will go nowhere if we have to rely on McTominay.
That's because Fred at his best should be playing as no 8 not in double pivot that stays deep next to FDJ like Schone did in 18/19.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Th goal shouldn't be to get the most out of everyone but to get the better setup for 11 players, it generally means that multiple players will have to do a bit more or a bit less than they ideally should.
Ofcourse, but I feel for Fred it would be too much of a concession to his strenghts...

For example would you be against Tchouaméni next to De Jong? A more defensive role would mean that he isn't using all his tools the same applies to Rice and most players.
I honestly dont know Tchouameni good enough to say anything about this..
 

OmarUnited4ever

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O think I read somewhere that it was like 375k, definitely upwards of 300k euros.
In the Athletic they reported that FDJ earns 11m euros net annually, and in Spain the top tax rate is 47%, so his gross salary would be around 16m euros, and that is 310k euros weekly, which is around 260k pounds weekly, that would not be the top bracket of the wage structure at United, since we have DDG & CR7 earn 375k pounds or more weekly.

Wages will not be an issue since the likes of Pogba and Cavani are leaving, among others.
 

Jericholyte2

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With the looks of Gundogan leaving City in the summer are they more likely to make a move now?
 

sun_tzu

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In the Athletic they reported that FDJ earns 11m euros net annually, and in Spain the top tax rate is 47%, so his gross salary would be around 16m euros, and that is 310k euros weekly, which is around 260k pounds weekly, that would not be the top bracket of the wage structure at United, since we have DDG & CR7 earn 375k pounds or more weekly.

Wages will not be an issue since the likes of Pogba and Cavani are leaving, among others.
Actually that's around 21,500,000 euros gross

https://salaryaftertax.com/es/salary-calculator

Using the catalonia tax rates

That's £18.25m gross uk or about £350k

If he wanted to carry on earning 11m euros net that's around 9.325 million pound uk (net)

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

Thats about £18m gross uk... so yeah about £350k a week

About the same as de gea and sancho which does not seem that unrealistic
 

Becks00

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Actually that's around 21,500,000 euros gross

https://salaryaftertax.com/es/salary-calculator

Using the catalonia tax rates

That's £18.25m gross uk or about £350k

If he wanted to carry on earning 11m euros net that's around 9.325 million pound uk (net)

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

Thats about £18m gross uk... so yeah about £350k a week

About the same as de gea and sancho which does not seem that unrealistic
I still can not believe we are paying Sancho that much, I really doubt it.
 

Giggsy13

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Actually that's around 21,500,000 euros gross

https://salaryaftertax.com/es/salary-calculator

Using the catalonia tax rates

That's £18.25m gross uk or about £350k

If he wanted to carry on earning 11m euros net that's around 9.325 million pound uk (net)

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

Thats about £18m gross uk... so yeah about £350k a week

About the same as de gea and sancho which does not seem that unrealistic
Going into painful specifics of salaries and Spanish tax structure is prime time intellectual muppetry that I adore and respect.
 

bosnian_red

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Going to be incredibly annoying if City get him, but it makes a lot of sense from their perspective (Fernandinho and now Gundogan leaving, they'll have nobody on the bench).
 

VanDeBank

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Sounds a bit like another Pogba, a 6 that's needs an actual 6 next to him to do the defending...
The partner helps him be more adventurous on the ball (literally what ETH says). He can play as a 6 or as a CB even. Defending isn't a weak point.

Yes because he plays out of position as an attacking midfielder.
 

roseguy64

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I still can not believe we are paying Sancho that much, I really doubt it.
Yeah I highly doubt that Sancho wage myself. I've seen reports from The Atheltic that apart from De Gea and Ronaldo, Pogba is our highest earner and he earns less just below 300k/week. Bruno's latest contract put him in the range of Varane, Cavani, Rashford and Martial. Maguire too I think. Sancho most likely is earning between 200k and 300k.