Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


  • Total voters
    2,033
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
38,428
I'm not a smart man. Can someone kindly explain how FDJ would fit into a high pressing team? I get that he's press resistant but I keep seeing line up examples with him, Fernandes and Fred as a midfield three and it just makes me think that we'd be horribly overrun by quick passing opposition.

I'm guessing we'd need a very active DM for it to work?
Pressing is about organisation way more than individuals.

Timing and positioning is key. Fernandinho is hardly a big bruiser and Rodri is hardly the fastest, but they know how to read danger and position themselves that if the first tackle doesn't win it, the 2nd will.

What we've lacked at united for years is actual organisation and knowing when/how to press effectively. When you watch us Fernandes is chasing after them alone, the wingers aren't even covering the fullbacks/cbs properly and central midfield are sitting infront of a back 4 waiting for a long ball. It just needs a complete rework and i'm sure ETH will get them working properly.

I've noticed our players over commit (fernandes especially) and end up being easy to beat with a fake pass or drop of the shoulder. The first presser shouldn't really be aiming to actually win the ball, just hold them up enough that they panic and pass it away to somebody in a worse position. If you can win it though then obviously that's great too.
 

OmarUnited4ever

Full Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
2,632
Location
Malaysia
Well given Barcelona themselves are a club going through a rebuild I’m sure he’ll be fine.
That is a fair point actually, Barca's main issues are financial and if they were financially sound, they would be able to build a strong team because they have some great players that they build around (Ter Stegen, Araugo, Pedri, Gavi, Torres, Dembele if he stays) , unlike what's needed for us.

But I'm confident that if he signs, he will know what he is getting into and be ready for it, EtH's presence might help as well.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
8,439
Exactly. It's why I'm not excited about FDJ if he is our only Midfield signing. Or why I'm not excited about a DM if they are our only signing.

But FDJ and Phillips together sounds to me like a Midfield that should work. They have different attributes that should help control the games in different ways.
By most accounts it seems that ETH is looking to add 2 new midfielders this summer so I doubt our business there would be done if we got FDJ in. We're losing Matic, Pogba, Mata and Lingard, there is absolutely a need there and I doubt he wants to be forced to rely on McFred
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
49,442
Location
Canada
I'm not a smart man. Can someone kindly explain how FDJ would fit into a high pressing team? I get that he's press resistant but I keep seeing line up examples with him, Fernandes and Fred as a midfield three and it just makes me think that we'd be horribly overrun by quick passing opposition.

I'm guessing we'd need a very active DM for it to work?
Fred and FdJ wouldn't work as a partnership because teams would walk through us. We need a much more solid/positionally sound midfielder in there. Without signing anyone, I think Ten Hag would pick McTominay to partner FdJ and FdJ would essentially replace Fred as the more "free" deeper CM. Either way, a DM is needed who will be positionally sound IMO.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
12,238
Supports
Erik ten Hag
You're placing an enormous amount of faith in VDB
At this moment I have to since he was our manager’s top 3 players he worked with in that 18/19 Ajax. Whatever happen during middle of the season will be judged in the mid season.
 

Blood Mage

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
3,616
Barca will sell him but it will not be to us. We need to be honest with ourselves about our situation and have backup targets lined up.

When Liverpool were shit they were signing the likes of Henderson and Lallana, they had to slowly build towards being able to attract players like Thiago and Tchouameni.
 

CallyRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
7,787
Barca will sell him but it will not be to us. We need to be honest with ourselves about our situation and have backup targets lined up.

When Liverpool were shit they were signing the likes of Henderson and Lallana, they had to slowly build towards being able to attract players like Thiago and Tchouameni.
So what your saying is McT is our Jay Spearing
 

Mr Pigeon

extremely baldy fatty bum bum
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
22,353
Location
Staging a 'coo' against my enemies
Probably in a similar way to how he did in the first instance under our new manager.
Don’t worry, our manager is aiming for 2 new midfield. If we sign FDJ, I also expect us to sign another midfield to play next to FDJ. I hope it’s going to be new midfielders of FDJ, new midfield, and VDB. Bruno would be playing wide in my ideal scenario. Or Bruno can rotate with VDB as the no 10 and whoever the wide player is.

Yeah, you're spot on with your last sentence. De Jong is the Thiago. We would still need our Fabinho. Bruno is also very difficult to slot in because ideally you would want to play with three midfielders, not two and a number ten. In my opinion, ten Hag should either mould Bruno into a number 8, like Pep has with De Bruyne, or play him as part of the front three.
Yeah he would definitely need a midfield partner but then applies to most players with that style
He already played in that kind of system for ETH and he had a converted winger as one of his main partner in Schone. And De Jong is defensively sound to the point where he has been used as a CB. On paper Fred is a good fit because he is very active but we could do with an upgrade mainly for technical reasons.
High pressing team means press as an unit. Fred's engine in theory would make him a good fit in a pressing unit. In a long run, Fred is upgradable, but that's a matter for another year. Bruno does not lack in effort, but let's wait and see whether he's coachable enough to fit in. DvB is a back up option if Bruno not working well in that unit. This is all in theory of course.

FdJ is more athletic than stereotype of DLP. He's quite decent ball winner himself. Not quite prime Matic, but IMO better than Fred who is weak physically. He's comparable to Ander Herrera level defensively IMO. He's comfortable slotting into gap in the defensive line when required too. So he's both capable of high pressing, and recovering if the pressing fails.
Pressing is about organisation way more than individuals.

Timing and positioning is key. Fernandinho is hardly a big bruiser and Rodri is hardly the fastest, but they know how to read danger and position themselves that if the first tackle doesn't win it, the 2nd will.

What we've lacked at united for years is actual organisation and knowing when/how to press effectively. When you watch us Fernandes is chasing after them alone, the wingers aren't even covering the fullbacks/cbs properly and central midfield are sitting infront of a back 4 waiting for a long ball. It just needs a complete rework and i'm sure ETH will get them working properly.

I've noticed our players over commit (fernandes especially) and end up being easy to beat with a fake pass or drop of the shoulder. The first presser shouldn't really be aiming to actually win the ball, just hold them up enough that they panic and pass it away to somebody in a worse position. If you can win it though then obviously that's great too.
Fred and FdJ wouldn't work as a partnership because teams would walk through us. We need a much more solid/positionally sound midfielder in there. Without signing anyone, I think Ten Hag would pick McTominay to partner FdJ and FdJ would essentially replace Fred as the more "free" deeper CM. Either way, a DM is needed who will be positionally sound IMO.
Thanks folks, some good reading there.
 

NewYorkRed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Messages
1,609
The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced this will never happen. Us getting a top midfielder in his prime (not even) that can actually dictate play? Never in a million years. Thiago, Kroos…I could go on and on and on. For whatever reason, we can’t seem to get that sort of player in.

FDJ would be a transformative signing for us.

PS: don’t say Pogba, couldn’t be more different in terms of style.
 

evil_geko

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
3,817
Lots of negative Andies in this thread, people don't realize how strong of a pull will Ten Hag have on players that already loved playing under him before.

People are too used to United attracting players with money alone, you forgot how it feels for players to be pulled in by a manager alone.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
24,746
Location
...
The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced this will never happen. Us getting a top midfielder in his prime (not even) that can actually dictate play? Never in a million years. Thiago, Kroos…I could go on and on and on. For whatever reason, we can’t seem to get that sort of player in.

FDJ would be a transformative signing for us.

PS: don’t say Pogba, couldn’t be more different in terms of style.
That is because we literally only caught up two weeks ago. Before then the principles of our club have all been about barnstorming box to box midfielders, wingers, counter attacking, crossing and speed. And even then, we tried to sign both Thiago and Kroos that you listed. Clearly, with our latest managerial appointment, we are now about to put some priority on passing and retaining the ball.
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
8,407
The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced this will never happen. Us getting a top midfielder in his prime (not even) that can actually dictate play? Never in a million years. Thiago, Kroos…I could go on and on and on. For whatever reason, we can’t seem to get that sort of player in.

FDJ would be a transformative signing for us.

PS: don’t say Pogba, couldn’t be more different in terms of style.
He wouldn't transform us one bit without a Midfield partner that suits him.
 

Marwood

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
2,479
The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced this will never happen. Us getting a top midfielder in his prime (not even) that can actually dictate play? Never in a million years. Thiago, Kroos…I could go on and on and on. For whatever reason, we can’t seem to get that sort of player in.

FDJ would be a transformative signing for us.

PS: don’t say Pogba, couldn’t be more different in terms of style.
It has to happen eventually, even if its by mistake. You'd think it impossible to keep avoiding centre mids who can pass.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
31,842
Barca will sell him but it will not be to us. We need to be honest with ourselves about our situation and have backup targets lined up.

When Liverpool were shit they were signing the likes of Henderson and Lallana, they had to slowly build towards being able to attract players like Thiago and Tchouameni.
Henderson is one of their most important players, and a perfect example of an average hardworking player excelling under a system.
 

elnorte

Freaky fly day
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
5,063
You don't rate him then I take it?
The 'deal' has the stench of ADM about it who was obviously a classy player even though he was an absolute trainwreck of a transfer for United. So basically even if he were to join and regardless of his quality, it would inevitably go horribly wrong for that same reason or we will ruin him like we do everything else.
 

Stadjer

Full Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
5,570
Location
The Netherlands
Henderson is one of their most important players, and a perfect example of an average hardworking player excelling under a system.
It might be time to stop calling Henderson average. He turned out to be fairly good, not a worldclass player but better than average. Average or maybe even below average would be our Scottie... I remember some long balls Henderson passed that arent usually passed by average players.
 

TOKUGAWA-X

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 7, 2022
Messages
184
Will United finally have a midfielder that has great feet and football brain ?

If Ten Hag signs up de jong then we are off to an amazing start.

The midfield has been our weakest area since perhaps a decade or even longer.

De Jong instantly sorts it out. He is that good, a truly world-class midfielder.
 

GreatDane

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
1,026
The 'deal' has the stench of ADM about it who was obviously a classy player even though he was an absolute trainwreck of a transfer for United. So basically even if he were to join and regardless of his quality, it would inevitably go horribly wrong for that same reason or we will ruin him like we do everything else.
If you can't be optimistic about a potential signing like this, then what?
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
49,442
Location
Canada
The 'deal' has the stench of ADM about it who was obviously a classy player even though he was an absolute trainwreck of a transfer for United. So basically even if he were to join and regardless of his quality, it would inevitably go horribly wrong for that same reason or we will ruin him like we do everything else.
Bit different. Di Maria flopped like he did because he and Van Gaal fell out and were completely opposites in terms of what the player did compared to what the coach wanted. Of course once the coach keeps pissing you off, at a certain point, the player will decide to feck off as soon as possible. Let's not forget that at the start he was very motivated and playing really well for us, despite wanting to join PSG. Things just went sour after.

With De Jong, we don't have to worry about the player and manager falling out or not suiting each other and being used incorrectly.
 

Esquire

Full Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
2,271
Barca will sell him but it will not be to us. We need to be honest with ourselves about our situation and have backup targets lined up.

When Liverpool were shit they were signing the likes of Henderson and Lallana, they had to slowly build towards being able to attract players like Thiago and Tchouameni.
This is completely right. Don’t be muppets we not getting FDJ. Can we have some rationality and manage our own expectations? We are a tragic mess and everyone knows it. Why would elite or top tier players join us aside from astronomical wages? What’s our attraction at this point as we are a talent reducer? I honestly don’t mind that we build slowly, get the good but not great players are are actually hungry and want to play for us then build from there. It will be a multi year task and we need to be patient.
 

Zetrio2002

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
214
Buy De Jong now. His vision is superb and his passing success rate is very good for a player playing in the middle of the field.
 

B. Munich

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
721
Location
Philippines
Supports
Bayern Munich
If not, then it's best for him to go to a stable top European club like Bayern or City.
Lewandowski won't extend his contract and wants an immediate move to Barcelona. Xavi rates and wants Lewandowski but Barcelona are cash strapped and don't have the 40 million Euro Bayern wants at least.
On the hand Bayern are looking to strengthen their defensive midfield.
I wouldn't be surprised, if Lewandowski really moves to Barcelona, Bayern will include a move of de Jong to Bayern into the deal.
Win win for all parties.
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
8,407
Will United finally have a midfielder that has great feet and football brain ?

If Ten Hag signs up de jong then we are off to an amazing start.

The midfield has been our weakest area since perhaps a decade or even longer.

De Jong instantly sorts it out. He is that good, a truly world-class midfielder.

De Jong doesn't sort our Midfield at all if we are pairing Fred VDB or McTominay with him.
 

dbs235

Full Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,843
Barca will sell him but it will not be to us. We need to be honest with ourselves about our situation and have backup targets lined up.

When Liverpool were shit they were signing the likes of Henderson and Lallana, they had to slowly build towards being able to attract players like Thiago and Tchouameni.
Worked out pretty well for them to be fair.
 

VanDeBank

Ma’am
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
4,729
Fred and FdJ wouldn't work as a partnership because teams would walk through us. We need a much more solid/positionally sound midfielder in there. Without signing anyone, I think Ten Hag would pick McTominay to partner FdJ and FdJ would essentially replace Fred as the more "free" deeper CM. Either way, a DM is needed who will be positionally sound IMO.
It can work if FDJ was to be told to play as the no 6/DM:

VDB-----------Fred
De Jong
He's played like that fairly successfully for both Holland and Barca and he's much better at it than his current attacking role, even if it's not his ideal position. We might line up like that if our other midfield signing picks up an injury or a suspension.
 

DJ_21

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Messages
3,223
Location
Manchester
Has anyone watched ibrahim sangare for psv? He’s a defensive mid and one we’re being linked with. Apparently he’s been one of psv best players this season… signing FDJ would be good but if we get a proper DM to play alongside him.
 

Ajaxsuarez

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
919
Supports
Ajax
I feel like people here have the wrong impression of the kind of player De Jong is.

He's not a passer like Thiago.

He's basically like Jorginho with his passing, in that he's very secure, has a nice disguised pass through the lines (at times), and can be inventive, but doesn't have much of a throughball nor a long ball.
He has brilliant awareness of everyone around him, but not necessarily the technique for anything truly incisive or creative.

What he has over Jorginho (massively) though is his athleticism, in that he's very quick and can keep running and put a lot of energy into a game.

He's great at making defensive recoveries, particularly tracking runners from the midfield when playing a high line.

His greatest attribute is his dribbling, both when put under pressure and with runs from deep into the midfield, passing by a player or two to create a numerical advantage further up the pitch.

He has a nice sliding tackle (technically), and he can run a lot and press well, but he's not someone who you can trust to hold position and defend a particular space.
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
8,407
It can work if FDJ was to be told to play as the no 6/DM:

VDB-----------Fred
De Jong
He's played like that fairly successfully for both Holland and Barca and he's much better at it than his current attacking role, even if it's not his ideal position. We might line up like that if our other midfield signing picks up an injury or a suspension.
Yeah that ain't a good Midfield. Won't work in my opinion
 
X
Status
Not open for further replies.