Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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giorno

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Now if their situation is really bad, the rest of europe should get smart and start making offers for Pedri instead
 

0le

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That's not the Di Maria situation at all and a very lazy comparison. Di Maria was joining a manager and system that he didn't fit in with, never tried to adapt culturally (i.e. learn the language) and being benched for Ashley Young for an entire season.

What is the likelihood of him not fitting Ten Hag's style, refusing to speak English and being benched for McTominay?
Dread it, run from it, destiny still arrives.
 

Esquire

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That's not the Di Maria situation at all and a very lazy comparison. Di Maria was joining a manager and system that he didn't fit in with, never tried to adapt culturally (i.e. learn the language) and being benched for Ashley Young for an entire season.

What is the likelihood of him not fitting Ten Hag's style, refusing to speak English and being benched for McTominay?
It’s not as lazy as you think. Yes all the factors you sight might distinguish FDJ from ADM, but there is one important commonality - FDJ does NOT want to come here. It cannot be a coincidence that all credible accounts say the same and that we wants to play CL if sold? Hopefully ETH can change his mind but certainly one can understand where FDJ’s mind is at right now in not wanting to come a a club that’s a certified talent reducer.
 

GreatDane

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It’s not as lazy as you think. Yes all the factors you sight might distinguish FDJ from ADM, but there is one important commonality - FDJ does NOT want to come here. It cannot be a coincidence that all credible accounts say the same and that we wants to play CL if sold? Hopefully ETH can change his mind but certainly one can understand where FDJ’s mind is at right now in not wanting to come a a club that’s a certified talent reducer.
There's are huge difference in not wanting to come here and not having planned it.
 

eire-red

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While De Jong would be a brilliant signing, still we'd need another signing in that midfield. We'd still be lacking that dominant CDM, but De Jong would be such a huge upgrade if we managed to get another in to partner him.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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That doesn't actually refute what I said. De Jong would be best partnered with a strong defensive presence for the general balance of the midfield area, but if that player is a natural holder then it won't be a symbiotic pairing.

Folk are mistakenly thinking that De Jong's ability to dribble means he needs a no.6 in the team with him. He carries the ball into space or out of pressure to disrupt his opponent's defensive shape - once he has provoked an opposition player to leave their man to cover his advancement or has worked an angle for a pass he releases the ball and returns to providing the attack with depth. This isn't the same as getting forward in a two-way role where a player will support an attack from a more advanced position and make forward runs off the ball. When he has the ball at his feet he is in control and he identifies opportunities to progress the play by driving forward but he also almost always identifies the right time to move it on and in doing so very rarely jeopardises his own team's defensive security.

Many no.6s can be primarily described as playmakers, and some aptly fit the term 'press resistant', but De Jong seems relatively unique in the way he can and will attack space. It doesn't mean he is not a no.6, he just has another string to his bow when it comes to progressing play. Hummels essentially did the same thing from his position, where he would step out of his defensive line with the ball - he was still a centre back. De Jong is a holding midfielder and should be played with a no.8.
You know that De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot at Ajax right? Not as lone 6. I was trying to replica what ETH did with De Jong at Ajax playing in double pivot.

Here quote from ETH himself why FDJ doesn't play as ''lone'' no 6. I think you thought that he played in Busquets's role, technicall yes to dictate the tempo but there are differences, Busquets actually didn't leave his spot to go forward like FDJ at Ajax.


I think this discussion is happening because of some lack of understanding of FDJ role in 18/19. FDJ's role was more similar to Libero than Deeplying-playmaker. Deeplying playmaker don't leave their spot to go forward. Look at the pictures below of 3 different positions of FDJ when Ajax on the ball. Sometime, he was the deepest one, sometime he was on the same line as Schone (no 20) or sometime he dribbled the ball forward.




 

Trex

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Here quote from ETH himself why FDJ doesn't play as ''lone'' no 6. "He leaves the middle of the pitch too often for that. And if you don’t give him the freedom to go forward, you won’t get the best out of his game." Therefore, he was used in double pivot by ETH in 18/19. And I think you thought that he played in Busquets's role, technicall yes to dictate the tempo but there are differences, Busquets actually didn't leave his spot to go forward like FDJ at Ajax.


I think this discussion is happening because of some lack of understanding of FDJ role in 18/19. FDJ's role was more similar to Libero than Deeplying-playmaker. Deeplying playmaker don't leave their spot to go forward. Look at the pictures below of 3 different positions of FDJ when Ajax on the ball. Sometime, he was the deepest one, sometime he was on the same line as Schone (no 20) or sometime he dribbled the ball forward.




He does get forward while dribbling, but in the way Matic does, not like he makes runs off the ball into the box or something.
 

Red the Bear

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The way they talk pretty much confirms that he is up for sale.
That Romero guy definitely has some decent contacts inside the club.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He does get forward while dribbling, but in the way Matic does, not like he makes runs off the ball into the box or something.
I never say he runs into the box. Running into the box is more box to box, which his role at Barcelona and didn't work.
 

gorky_utd

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The way they talk pretty much confirms that he is up for sale.
That Romero guy definitely has some decent contacts inside the club.
I think no body has any doubt that he is up for sale. But whether he wants to join utd or barca trying to create a bidding war is the main question.
 

Red the Bear

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I think no body has any doubt that he is up for sale. But whether he wants to join utd or barca trying to create a bidding war is the main question.
His options are rather limited in a sense, not many clubs can pay his wages and those who could don't specifically need him per say.
Bayern doesn't pay that kind of money and between us and psg he might as well come to us to play with his former manager.
I like our chances.
 

mu4c_20le

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The way they talk pretty much confirms that he is up for sale.
That Romero guy definitely has some decent contacts inside the club.
Everyone knows this at this point, the question was always if the player himself wants to come. He is one of the highest on their wage bill, they have no problems letting him go.
 

charlenefan

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I think he's definitely for sale, due to Busquets still being around Frenkie has always been a bit of a square peg and with the likes of Pedri and Kessie coming in on a free they've got options in midfield

Starting to feel like this could be on :nervous:
 

Son

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You don't even have to go that far back.

Chelsea got Fabregas and Kovacic.
Arsenal got Ozil and Alexis.

All were excellent despite probably wanting to stay put and being surplus to requirements, and de Jong would be for us, too. I don't get the worry some have just because we aren't his first choice.
Totally agree Arsenals signings at the time were big news and they delivered their playing the best football of their careers for a time.

I just see De Jong signing for City though realistically. I don’t understand why Pep wouldn’t do the deal given they didn’t pay over the odds for Haaland.

We all know we are the bigger club but right now why would a potential world class midfielder join us over Pep’s side? I can’t think of any personally if a player wants to win things.
 

Adnan

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You know that De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot at Ajax right? Not as lone 6. I was trying to replica what ETH did with De Jong at Ajax playing in double pivot.

Here quote from ETH himself why FDJ doesn't play as ''lone'' no 6. I think you thought that he played in Busquets's role, technicall yes to dictate the tempo but there are differences, Busquets actually didn't leave his spot to go forward like FDJ at Ajax.


I think this discussion is happening because of some lack of understanding of FDJ role in 18/19. FDJ's role was more similar to Libero than Deeplying-playmaker. Deeplying playmaker don't leave their spot to go forward. Look at the pictures below of 3 different positions of FDJ when Ajax on the ball. Sometime, he was the deepest one, sometime he was on the same line as Schone (no 20) or sometime he dribbled the ball forward.




You're spot on.
 

Rampant Red Rodriguez

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"LaLiga sets the limits based on clubs’ wages and revenue. Barcelona posted a loss of 481 million euros last season."

"Spanish competition LaLiga announced the new thresholds on clubs’ spending, setting Barcelona’s limit at a negative 144 million euros (negative $158 million), LaLiga Corporate Director Javier Gomez said at a news conference on Monday."

"The club will be able to sign a new player only by saving on its spending, either by cutting the current squad’s wage bill first, or alternatively by increasing income or lowering expenses."

Yea, he's going to be sold..
 

NoLogo

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I can't remember why I joined this war.
You know that De Jong played as no 6 in double pivot at Ajax right? Not as lone 6. I was trying to replica what ETH did with De Jong at Ajax playing in double pivot.

Here quote from ETH himself why FDJ doesn't play as ''lone'' no 6. I think you thought that he played in Busquets's role, technicall yes to dictate the tempo but there are differences, Busquets actually didn't leave his spot to go forward like FDJ at Ajax.


I think this discussion is happening because of some lack of understanding of FDJ role in 18/19. FDJ's role was more similar to Libero than Deeplying-playmaker. Deeplying playmaker don't leave their spot to go forward. Look at the pictures below of 3 different positions of FDJ when Ajax on the ball. Sometime, he was the deepest one, sometime he was on the same line as Schone (no 20) or sometime he dribbled the ball forward.




I'm amazed that this myth of de Jong being a lone 6 is still around but you will notice even your detailed post and the quote from ten Hag will not prevent at least 30% of the caf from thinking he could be our lone 6 in a midfield 3 and we won't be needing someone like Rice if we buy him...

Imo him with someone like Rice or Kamara in midfield would probably be the best scenario. Since ten Hag seems to prefer the 4231 anyway I also think this would also be the approach he would choose if de Jong came here, who exactly would partner him I don't know.
 

Svartzonker

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This is either happening in the near by future or not at all. I suspect we get some kind of news tomorrow about this.

I think it’s on like donk…
 

NotQuiteManc

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At the very least, the saga won't last too long or until end of transfer window. It is either Barca selling him before July or not.
 

GJNJ

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He could sign a new contract with them on lower terms if he wants to stay there. Maybe that why they are being so vocal about it to put pressure on him.
 

Blood Mage

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I really don't want another one of those long, drawn out transfer sagas which only ever seem to happen to us. Most of them end in disappointment too. The Vidal saga took years off my life, I wanted him so badly. :(
 

Jam

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I’m so torn on this. Good sources backing it, Barce have gave every indication he’s available…. But we are overestimating the ETH hook-up like we did with the Ole-Haaland relationship? This lad can essentially pick his club, the only reason to chose us from his perspective is ETH.

Now if their situation is really bad, the rest of europe should get smart and start making offers for Pedri instead
They won’t sell Pedri under any circumstances (save a beyond stupid bid like 200+)

He’s their new “Mr Barce” and his wages are a fraction of FDJ.
 

Dominos

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I’m so torn on this. Good sources backing it, Barce have gave every indication he’s available…. But we are overestimating the ETH hook-up like we did with the Ole-Haaland relationship? This lad can essentially pick his club, the only reason to chose us from his perspective is ETH.
It's not as simple as him picking his club.

The few clubs he would realistically choose over us have to be after a central midfielder of his type, be willing to pay his wages, and be willing to pay the fee to Barca. A lot of our potential competition will just have other priorities. Hopefully if we did have competition he'd also have a preference for the premier league over France/Italy/Germany but that's an unknown. Realistcally Ten Hag will have already spoken to him so there must be some indication there's a decent chance he's coming, if he'd told us "your team's too shit and not in CL, I'm not joining" we'd have killed this story before it even started. I think it's happening.
 
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