Frenkie de Jong

Chairman Steve

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Now would be a nice time to announce this chap, considering the turd we laid at Selhurst Park this afternoon.
 

Scholsey2004

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did you mean to say that Keano lacked Ince's strength and physicality? really?
Obviously. Ince was bigger and much more muscular than Keane. Technically he was quite average though.
 

croadyman

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At this stage it’s just Barca making up the story to appease the fans. ‘We wanted/tried to keep him etc… recluctantly accepted a bid etc…. Financial situation, not our fault etc…’

He’ll be in red next season.
OK put a % on that then haha
 

redshaw

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He might be phoning ten Hag up, "are you sure you can fix this, looks fubar?"
 

Bastian

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Yeah, he's depressed.
A man of literature, can you elaborate further as to his internal monologue as he took one last look at the beautiful Nou Camp and the City of Barcelona before heading to Europa League Man Utd where we hate our players because they're cnuts?
 

Oly Francis

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I love this player, to me he's one of the most talented midfield in the world.

But boy he's not the one you need if you want leadership on the pitch, when things go wrong he's transparent. It was the same under Koeman, the guy looks like a ghost and stares at his shoes while his team is getting wrecked left and right. He doesn't seem to show any gut.
 

Mr Pigeon

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A man of literature, can you elaborate further as to his internal monologue as he took one last look at the beautiful Nou Camp and the City of Barcelona before heading to Europa League Man Utd where we hate our players because they're cnuts?
He sad.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I love this player, to me he's one of the most talented midfield in the world.

But boy he's not the one you need if you want leadership on the pitch, when things go wrong he's transparent. It was the same under Koeman, the guy looks like a ghost and stares at his shoes while his team is getting wrecked left and right. He doesn't seem to show any gut.
He’s not a leader for sure. But let’s get the technical players first that suit the manager system because what we have in midfield right now are totally crap.
 

croadyman

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He’s not a leader for sure. But let’s get the technical players first that suit the manager system because what we have in midfield right now are totally crap.
Yeah he can provide the technical ability, just a matter of finding some leaders which isn't easy
 

Sir Erik ten Hag

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I love this player, to me he's one of the most talented midfield in the world.

But boy he's not the one you need if you want leadership on the pitch, when things go wrong he's transparent. It was the same under Koeman, the guy looks like a ghost and stares at his shoes while his team is getting wrecked left and right. He doesn't seem to show any gut.
People used to associate Bruno and Maguire with "leadership quality". In the end it was moot because even Roy Keane would struggle when the overall game plan is bad. Make the plan clear, and have our players follow it first. Good results will bring good faiths and over time it snowballs into "confidence". Then you will suddenly find a lot of these players have faint leadership image with them because of how confidently they express themselves on the pitch.

People last night said City had no leadership on the pitch and did not replace Kompany properly when City was 0-2 down. But just 1 goal came in and suddenly the game flow changed dramatically, goals came like an opened floodgate. By the time it ended, people were singing songs on how KDB dragged City through the line. See how just a bit of confidence can make the players change?

So I don't put much stock in this "leadership nature" stuff that we love to point at the players in great form. It's subjective and rarely indicates things correctly. Cohesive teamplay, good confidence...will put the players in place, not a "Roy Keane".
 

sherrinford

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All you have been telling me is that A no.6 (first function midfielder) absolutely should be played alongside a no.8 (second function midfielder). By using that ''absolutely'' word you are not talking about the Ajax 18/19 but you were more referring to fixed principle that you had watched how team's midfield should operate and refuse to accept that a manager could make it work in different way. Why don't you provide proofs of how Ajax 18/19 play. Using Busquets and Xavi as example doesn't prove anything about how Schone and De Jong play in 18/19 season either. So it doesn't work like that mate.

In 18/19, Schone doesn't get license to go forward, while FDJ gets the roam in many areas, sometime the same line as CB, same like as Schone, and even sometime deeper than defender like a modern libero he also allows to run with the ball from the defense line. I had shown this with the screen shots as proof or even video of how Ajax 18/19 played. Your turn to prove it wrong if that's not how they played in 18/19.

Better or not better is not the point here, the point here is that if Xavi plays alongside Pirlo then one of them would be sacrificed because both like to dictate the tempo, that's their speciality. The same with FDJ if he plays with Xavi or Modric, one of them would be sacrificed. Remember Alonso and Modric? Modric was at one time voted as La Liga worst signing because of this. So being better and not is irrelevant when there is proof that Modric was voted as La Liga worst signing because Alonso and Modric didn't work. Busquets' reading the game and positioning are world class, can't believe some people still underrate Busquets defensive aspect.
You talk about the idea that a team can only truly have one player dictating the tempo of a game, yet you refuse to acknowledge the principle that a team can only really have one deepest midfielder. If two players in that central midfield area want to be the deepest midfielder, it is detrimental to at least one of them.

The configuration of the Ajax midfield was very much ordinary - there is no exception to the rule for me to accept here.

You are now getting hung up on Xavi, Busquets and Barcelona. I first mentioned the Barcelona midfield because you were unable to grasp that Schone can be a deep lying midfielder or deep lying playmaker, and be called either a no.6 or a no.8, and be a second function midfielder. I then provided you with two groups of players who could all be described as deep lying midfielders/ playmakers to highlight the difference between first and second function midfielders. Instead you cherry picked a few and went off on a tangent about tempo dictators.

Your 'evidence' proves nothing. Your screenshots marry up with what I have said regarding the Ajax midfield, the other images are silly and the video is by a moron. This is what I wrote in this thread weeks before our conversation started:

Schone was the no.8 to De Jong's no.6. How they moved and positioned themselves depended on exactly how the opposition set up. When De Jong dropped into the backline, Schone would occupy De Jong's space in front of the defence. Sometimes both would occupy parallel positions at the base of midfield, and sometimes Schone would make a run forward or occupy a higher position in order to give De Jong space to operate. The opposite, however, wasn't something they looked to do - De Jong would seldomly look to operate in a more advanced midfield area with Schone behind him.
If I had the inclination to find out where to source screenshot from games and then how to post them I perhaps would but currently I'm in the dark and not going to make the effort to change that.

Busquets is a remarkably intelligent defender, but De Jong is also great at reading and anticipating, has a bit more mettle and is the complete opposite of Busquets in that he is an athlete with a Fernandinho/ Kante like ability to cover ground quickly.

Also, are you sure you remember Alonso with Modric, and what happened after he was voted La Liga's worst signing?
 

Lash

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Obviously. Ince was bigger and much more muscular than Keane. Technically he was quite average though.
He definitely wasn't, not sure why you'd think that? Unless you were born in 2004!
 

Marwood

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People used to associate Bruno and Maguire with "leadership quality". In the end it was moot because even Roy Keane would struggle when the overall game plan is bad. Make the plan clear, and have our players follow it first. Good results will bring good faiths and over time it snowballs into "confidence". Then you will suddenly find a lot of these players have faint leadership image with them because of how confidently they express themselves on the pitch.

People last night said City had no leadership on the pitch and did not replace Kompany properly when City was 0-2 down. But just 1 goal came in and suddenly the game flow changed dramatically, goals came like an opened floodgate. By the time it ended, people were singing songs on how KDB dragged City through the line. See how just a bit of confidence can make the players change?

So I don't put much stock in this "leadership nature" stuff that we love to point at the players in great form. It's subjective and rarely indicates things correctly. Cohesive teamplay, good confidence...will put the players in place, not a "Roy Keane".
Agree with this. You need the correct talent.

Even with Keane and others, we saw what happened when recruitment under SAF had a bad spell.

We saw what happened under Moyes despite having title and champs league winners.

Just get good players who naturally and instinctively work hard. Everything follows from that.

As long as de Jong fits the above criteria I couldn't care less what his leadership qualities are.
 

Amsterdam Devil

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Looks like Barca financial condition is set and now they dont need to sell players.
[/QUOTE]

He needs money for the stadium, most of the money will go there. They still pay way to much salary to the players for new players to arrive.
 

DarkDog

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Looks like Barca financial condition is set and now they dont need to sell players.
Great info in that tweet, everything is so clearly said :D:D
But if that is true, it can only be to sell some of their TV rights percentage. 900 mil, 30% for 10 years?
 

Stobzilla

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Looks like Barca financial condition is set and now they dont need to sell players.
How does one lead to the other?

They still want to bring in new players for next season and they still need to have some players who were a part of the old wage structure leave. The amount quoted in the tweet will go into the still huge amount of debt they have and probably paying off the high interest loans they secured so they could make moves in January.
 

sewey89

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1) That tweet is as clear as mud.
2) Even if they're getting a 1bn 'injection', then they'd have known this was coming and are still open to selling De Jong
 

pratyush_utd

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Correct me if i’m wrong but that deal is to pay off loan which was due. Its more like refinancing rather than a commercial deal. Barca most likely parted away with some television income percentage for that.

Original issue of player registration and fund will still remain
 

Superden

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if Woodward was still around, we'd have Lewandoski and O.Dembele signed up by now. *sigh*
 

Red the Bear

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The discussion about his position has generated more pages than your average Wumming :lol: