From this clean slate the squad have been given: which players will play themselves out of the starting xi?

[Fortitude]

ten Hag looked like an angry, angry man yesterday, like he couldn't believe some of the things he was seeing out there. As far as I'm aware, he's always vocal, win or lose. Cajoling, screaming and being animated, so correct me if I'm wrong, but that silence and despondency witnessed yesterday was highly uncharacteristic for him?

I couldn't help but think that seeing is believing and a good measure of the goodwill extended to these players and the clean slate they've been given was washed away yesterday. We saw in a previous manager how a dire performance at the start of a season completely affected his approach to the remainder of an entire campaign. He was Dutch, but I'd like to believe it's not principles and approach that will be adjusted in EtH's case, but rather, it'll be a prompt for him to swiftly eliminate players who cannot follow or execute instructions to the point of the bewilderment we saw on his face yesterday.

Contrary to what Kum Ba Yah mantra some threw out in that 'forgiveness' thread, it's quite clear that old grudges have immediately carried over from last season. Some of the players who had dire performances yesterday weren't been dug out for yesterday's game in isolation, and already, there's leaning towards people being at the end of their tethers with certain players, despite this being the first game of a new campaign. I'm not sure how many games ten Hag will give players before he's done with them, but I have a feeling his fuse isn't particularly long. Losing a game of football is never the issue, but the hows and whys of a game as well as the ability to learn and grow from said loss is paramount. I don't get the impression there'll be a groundhog day level of acceptance to players performing way below standards.

I am curious as to whom you believe will be given the time to find their feet as opposed to those who will get the AWB treatment. McTominay, for example, is not going to be allowed many games of yesterday's standard before being removed from the team, imo, as he was the antithesis of what a Dutch manager wants from a midfielder. Revelatory declaration, I know. But along those lines, who will deviate so far from what this manager wants that they effectively banish themselves from the starting xi?

To give this thread some balance, I'll state that a player who I'm less than thrilled by in Maguire displayed some facets that will earn him a prolonged stay of execution in the team with his distribution and general understanding of what he's being asked to do (how well he did those jobs is another discussion, but at least the tenets did not go over his head) whereas other players just looked lost or like they had reverted immediately to type like the pre-season drilling and conditioning never happened. I'm not on a witch hunt (pointing our McTominay's woes doesn't amount to picking him out) and I am curious to see who and who you believe is going to work themselves out of the side and for what reason? For myself, three players stuck out like sore thumbs, but what the caf consensus is will give insight as to whether we're on the same page.

I don't think it's a bluff that this manager will sooner drop kids in than persist with players who can't do what he asks. What say you?

 

[WeedmineR]

I'd say Fred for sure, maybe even McTominay, Shaw is up there and probably Rashford.
But I am really curious to see what an Ajax fan has to say about the first paragraph!

 

[buckooo1978]

based on backup i think we could well see some of Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Rashford play themselves out at expense of Malacia, Garnacho, Garner, Hannibal and Zidane....

Could Laird be any worse than Dalot?

The players in reserve are largely untested but given how awful McFred were surely the kids who are more technically skilled should get that chance

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I trust his football knowledge so I believe (or at least hope) that he'll realise that McTominay simply isn't good enough to start for a team with top 4 aspirations.

 

[Skills]

McTominay and Rashford

Both looked way out of their depth

 

[Damien]

Rashford for sure. He probably already would be out of it if not for our lack of attacking signings and situation with Ronaldo.

 

[Chip]

On the basis of yesterday's performance none of the following players should not be starting the next match:
Fernandes, McTominay, Fred, Shaw, Rashford, Dalot, and de Gea.

That leaves Maguire, Martinez, Eriksen, and Sancho. Martinez and Sancho we awful as well, but they are excused as the former had his debut while the latter is potentially still recovering from illness.

On a permanent basis, I think that Rashford, McTominay, Dalot, Shaw, and maybe Fred all should and will lose their spot in the starting XI within the coming months.

 

[pocco]

In what timescale?

Over the next 2 years....

Rashford
Bruno
McTominay
Fred
Shaw
Maguire (though the other options will play themselves out again)
Dalot
Potentially Sancho if he doesn't play like he is capable

Pretty damning really.

 

[A9X SJ]

I'd happily watch him revert to youth & give them a chance the team is dire, ruins the weekend every time

 

[2cents]

Shaw will be out very soon thankfully given there's a ready made replacement and obvious favorite of ETH ready to step in. Have to assume McT's days are finally numbered with Rabiot coming in. Unfortunately after that there are no obvious replacements for the players that should be dropped - perhaps Maguire but seems unlikely with his bizarre stature in the club. Probably Bruno is the most obvious expendable under-achiever to be dropped.

 

[joedirt87]

it's one game so no one yet, although I wouldn't blame the manager if he wanted to drop a few of those players permanently off that performance. Dropping McTominay and/or Fred would take some serious confidence and patience from ETH to go through developing Iqbal and Savage throughout the season.

 

[diarm]

Dalot, Shaw, Fred, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford and Sancho were all absolutely awful yesterday. Hard to say any one of them was any better or worse than the others.

There was a spell during the second half where Brighton took their foot off a touch and we created a few chances without every really playing decent ball, but in general that was as bad as anything we saw last season.

Eriksen showed some decent stuff, Martinez recovered well from a poor and nervous looking first 50 minutes (played well after he should've given away a penalty) and Maguire was average as opposed to poor. But many more performances like those from the rest of them yesterday, and they'll surely be out of the team.

 

[Litch]

I expect to see no changes tbh. The challenge is to change these players mentality even if they aren’t technically good enough. He still needs the majority of these players for at least this season if not more…..

 

[Spoony]

Maguire
McT
Fred
And DDG eventually. The core needs an overhaul.

 

[Rozay]

I have little trust or expectation in Ten Hag for now. I don't have distrust in him either - but I am awaiting to see what he does. The lavish amounts of benefit of the doubt that I am seeing thrown at him are not coming from me. I will simply call whatever it is that I see from him. There is no guarantee he will be a good enough manager here at all, and more proven managers than him have failed.

I am not going to just assume that 'McTominay won't get many games like that' until I see it. It is just my hope speaking otherwise. Previous managers have failed to sell or bench him, and so far, Ten Hag has voluntarily begun a new season with him in his XI - so until I see otherwise, he is yet another manager who will pick Scott, Bruno, Maguire and Rashford regardless of what they do. At least Ralf had the stones to drop Rashford, and as far as I am concerned, he was not even particularly impressive in pre-season either (by far the poorest of our front 3) but all doubts seem to have been removed. It's clear to me that if we continue to line up weekly with Maguire, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford (at present) and others (who I have not listed as they are at least not seen as undroppable) - then we won't be up to anything. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Ten Hag has the courage to drop or better still, sell, any of them.

 

[Lewnited]

If you're talking long term, it's probably easier to ask which of the players actually do have a future under ten Hag (or any decent manager).

Potential starters: Sancho, Eriksen, Martinez

Potential squad players: Martial, Fred, Maguire, Varane, Shaw, Dalot, Malacia

Outside of the players listed above, I don't think any of our current players would make the cut if ten Hag had full freedom to build his team over the next two year or so.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I trust his football knowledge so I believe (or at least hope) that he'll realise that McTominay simply isn't good enough to start for a team with top 4 aspirations.

Neither is maguire, dalot, rashford, de gea, Shaw, bruno.

 

[DWelbz19]

I don’t think [m]any. Inclined to agree with @Rozay, if anything. Don’t think much is changing.

I honestly think we’ll be sat here, 6-7 months down the line, and players who are currently sitting on only 1-2 years left on their deals (Fred; Shaw; De Gea; Rashford) — will all be given extensions and the cycle of insanity continues.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Cutting the cord with Ole’s key men would be a big step forward, Maguire Bruno McT Rashford, but I don’t see it

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Neither is maguire, dalot, rashford, de gea, Shaw, bruno.

McTominay first of all, and it seems one match and Ten Hag has already seen enough and Rabiot is coming in. Then deal with some of the others.

Dalot is not good enough I agree, I prefer Wan Bissaka or even better someone else. Rashford’s slump continues, was once good enough but not much evidence he can get back to form.

I think you can work with Bruno, De Gea and Maguire, although they’re not in good form.

 

[eire-red]

I'll reserve judgement on Rashford until he gets a spell playing from the left wing, which is where he has displayed his best form in a United shirt, but has been thrown all over the teamsheets in recent years. (I actually missed the vast majority of the game yesterday so please correct me if he was playing from the left and not up top like the line-up suggested).

I think Shaw for sure, given that he looked a bit lazy at the back post for the first goal, and it was too easy for March to get the shot off for the second. Those moments are characteristic of his defending full stop, and his attacking play has also gone off the boil so it doesn't look promising given that we've signed Malacia.

McTominay for sure needs to go, and Fred probably hanging in there. Maybe he has a role in a midfield 3 in a high pressing system, but not as a deep player. Dalot worth a mention too? Should have signed Trippier last year...

In short, I think Rashford and Maguire will be given some leeway based on past history and that they do actually have some quality. For Shaw, Fred, McTominay and Dalot I'd say the clock is really ticking as I think we've all been skeptical of their abilities as United players.

 

[bosnian_red]

• Shaw
• Maguire
• McTominay
• De Gea

Definites for me. Will all play themselves out of the starting 11, though some will be more just changing priority to replace them with a signing (if we can find some money somewhere as we are clearly skint). Wouldn't be surprised if Malacia replaced Shaw next week.

Bruno is on the verge of being on this list too.

 

[RedAlert27]

Take your pick really apart from the 3 new signings. Every single one of these players have looked replacable over the last year or two barring Ronaldo. Which usual starting players won't Ten Hag be looking to replace over the next few years? Ronaldo will be gone by then, jury is still out on Sancho and Varane from last season, Fernandes has a possibility if he can regain his form from his debut season. Everyone else you have to say is not looking of the standard to challenge for the top 4, let alone for silverware!

 

[Maticmaker]

The player I am most disappointed with is Sancho. A total of between twenty and thirty minutes in all the games he's played for us has he looked like he could be something special. However most of the time I get the feeling if Dan James were here he would be giving him a run for his money. Before people tell me he has been ill, let me say if you are not fit you should not be on the pitch... maybe ETH 'leaned' on him a bit,.. if so, well the manager wont be making that mistake again soon will he?

Schoolboy errors abounded once more, loosing balls in the most dangerous areas, lack of control of the ball, getting caught the wrong side of opponents, not just once but a number of times, waiting for passes to arrive instead of going to meet the ball, in the first twenty minutes the best two balls were played by Eriksen, got us in on goal twice, then they stopped giving him the ball???

We are so predictable, its unbelievable!

On MOTD2 last night Dion Dublin was saying "on paper, United have better players than Brighton", so there's the answer for ETH...next match we need to play on a paper pitch.

 

[m1tch]

The only ones that play themselves out are the ones where we have viable options to replace them in the first 11 that could do better. So that's not many is it. Our strength in depth is disastrous. Our most stacked position is centre back in terms of numbers but how much do we really gain from bringing in Lindelof?

 

[Cloud7]

Rashford and McT will be fairly soon.
Shaw next.
Bruno will take a while but it will reach that point before the end of the season.

 

[Strootman's Finger]

No exaggeration, based on the squad last season, and excluding the young players, everyone but Sancho, Van de Beek, Varane and Elanga. I didn't include Ronaldo because I don't think he'll be here.

 

[Lynty]

McFred have already secured their spot on the bench. I think we'll see van de Beek and Eriksen against Brenford.

Shaw might last until Liverpool game, but I reckon he'll be displaced in September.

Rashford needs to score in the next couple of games else he'll be benched.

I'd say Dalot, but there's not enough competition. Ten Hag has shown his opinion of AWB (who's been pushed out) and Laird (who was potentially going on loan)

 

[Shiva87]

• Shaw
• Maguire
• McTominay
• De Gea

Definites for me. Will all play themselves out of the starting 11, though some will be more just changing priority to replace them with a signing (if we can find some money somewhere as we are clearly skint). Wouldn't be surprised if Malacia replaced Shaw next week.

Bruno is on the verge of being on this list too.

You are missing Rashford, Martial and Dalot.

I guess that makes a total of 7 (possibly 8 with Bruno) who are prime candidates!

 

[Irwin99]

If Rabiot and a striker come in i'd say Rashford and McTominay would be the first to go. We're also ridiculously well stocked for centre backs so possibly Maguire.

It depends on whether reinforcements are brought in but at the moment players like Dalot, Fred, Mctominay, Rashford, De Gea can't really afford to be dropped because there is no one else. There is a reason they're being picked.

There was a frustration towards the end of the season as to why certain youth players weren't being picked and I kinda understood why; to put a young player in this team is very risky and almost cruel. The atmosphere around the club is toxic as feck (and contrary to what some on here would argue it's not the negative moaners/pessimists that are to blame). To put kids in this team at the moment is not good.

 

[bosnian_red]

You are missing Rashford, Martial and Dalot.

I guess that makes a total of 7 (possibly 8 with Bruno) who are prime candidates!

No. Rashford i still think will be fine long term. Dalot sure is not good enough but not many options out there and I don't think anyone sees him as a starter more than this season anyway. Martial isn't a starter either, though I have some hope for him with Ten Hag with the big if being he stays fit.

 

[RedAlert27]

If Rabiot and a striker come in i'd say Rashford and McTominay would be the first to go. We're also ridiculously well stocked for centre backs so possibly Maguire.

It depends on whether reinforcements are brought in but at the moment players like Dalot, Fred, Mctominay, Rashford, De Gea can't really afford to be dropped because there is no one else. There is a reason they're being picked.

There was a frustration towards the end of the season as to why certain youth players weren't being picked and I kinda understood why; to put a young player in this team is very risky and almost cruel. The atmosphere around the club is toxic as feck (and contrary to what some on here would argue it's not the negative moaners/pessimists that are to blame). To put kids in this team at the moment is not good.

You can flip that view around with the youngsters. With expectations of the team at an all time low, why not replace the likes of Rashford with Garnacho? There will be a lot less pressure on the youngsters and they will be more likely to be forgiven for a poor performance due to their inexperience over someone who has been in the team for years. Start with at least one youngster and if they're performing terribly then replace them..

 

[Borys]

Since the question is about starting XI, I believe Bruno will lose the place rather quickly. He's not a Ten Hag kind of player at all. He's the opposite of system player but also very poor at keeping possession. Useless in midfield.

Rashford might have it difficult to adjust to possession game, but if we can improve our transition game, he'll do better.

I would like to say McTominay will be dropped, and considering the scattergun approach we seem to have aiming for midfielders it's very likely. But until we actually get someone I am not sure if there are alternatives?

 

[lex talionis]

McFred have already secured their spot on the bench. I think we'll see van de Beek and Eriksen against Brenford.

Shaw might last until Liverpool game, but I reckon he'll be displaced in September.

Rashford needs to score in the next couple of games else he'll be benched.

I'd say Dalot, but there's not enough competition. Ten Hag has shown his opinion of AWB (who's been pushed out) and Laird (who was potentially going on loan)

Lynty has it right. McTominay and Fred have to be benched. Even before we talk about Frenkie and Rabiot we have options -- not world class options but options. Eriksen and Donny can sit in a double pivot and give a much better transition of play than McFred EVER HAVE.

I'm not as worried about Shaw, though he did drop a turd yesterday. Malacia must be ready for the chance he'll get soon.

Rashford is on extremely thin ice. His conditioning is second to none and he'd be tough to beat in that American TV show, American Ninja, but his technical ability has collapsed. What we saw yesterday was a horror show performance from the man who wants to start for England in the World Cup. He might snake into the squad on reputation, but on the basis of his form for the last 24 months he's nowhere near NT quality.

I hate to be harsh on our own players, but WTF???

 

[Fortitude]

Didn’t expect it to take a single game!

All hell has broken loose.

 

[Canagel]

McTominay, Rashford and Bruno will be the first to go because we are in the market for a midfielder and striker and because Bruno can be replaced immediately with Eriksen/VDB. But if Eriksen will play deep we need a new 8/10 which is why we are being linked to SMS.

We may see VDB as a stop gap until a second midfielder comes in.

De Gea and Dalot should go but will survive because we don't have any alternatives and are not in the market for their positions.

 

[Fortitude]

I cannot believe these players have shortened the time so rapidly.

Was thinking Shaw did himself in yesterday with his disgraceful application, but does ten Hag dare to put his new fb in vs Liverpool?

I think Bruno and Rashford are on last legs already, which is a good thing as they haven't been worthy of a starting spot for an age now.

 

[#07]

I still don't understand why so many got a clean slate. Last season showed us what their real level was. It was self deception on the part of the club to believe it had all gone wrong cos Ralf was too mean.

 

[Laurencio]

Lynty has it right. McTominay and Fred have to be benched. Even before we talk about Frenkie and Rabiot we have options -- not world class options but options. Eriksen and Donny can sit in a double pivot and give a much better transition of play than McFred EVER HAVE.

I'm not as worried about Shaw, though he did drop a turd yesterday. Malacia must be ready for the chance he'll get soon.

Rashford is on extremely thin ice. His conditioning is second to none and he'd be tough to beat in that American TV show, American Ninja, but his technical ability has collapsed. What we saw yesterday was a horror show performance from the man who wants to start for England in the World Cup. He might snake into the squad on reputation, but on the basis of his form for the last 24 months he's nowhere near NT quality.

I hate to be harsh on our own players, but WTF???

Pre season suggests Savage would probably do a better job than Donny in the middle.

 

[Rozay]

It’s not a clean slate though. Bailly, for example, clearly hasn’t started pre-season in an equal line with Maguire, Martinez, Lindelöf etc.

The player himself does not want to leave and would rather stay and fight for his place, but it’s not a fair fight. He was hoping to impress in pre-season, but if anything, he impressed too much in his first couple of games and we couldn’t have that - so stopped playing him immediately. He’s our only modern centre half. A fast, aggressive centre half with strength, speed and agility in addition to ability on the ball. Instead we are trying to play ‘ETH’s system’ with Maguire on the halfway line.