Further signings dependent on sales?

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
15,545
In what world isn't Amad a first-team player? Bought for £42M. Get a grip. All those others are first-teamers too.
You haven't a clue what a first team player is.

Amad has just turned 19 and has played in 7 senior club matches. His transfer fee is irrelevant.

You may as well count the entire U23 squad as first team players if you're going to be this deluded about it, at least then you can get yourself into more hysterics about how big our squad is.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,337
In what world isn't Amad a first-team player? Bought for £42M. Get a grip. All those others are first-teamers too.
Truth be told we probably should have kept the Amad & Donny money and used it on a first XI DM with passing ability
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,337
Our owners only care about getting CL money, which means the target is, and forever will be, top 4

We’re not like City & Chelsea. We won’t go all in to try to compete on all fronts. Our goal is to finish in the top 4.
Yeah us not rivalling them for Ronaldo despite them funding a move for Tom Brady across the pond really angers me, especially when it looks like unless rules change drastically we will be left with no proper no 9 after the international break
 

Mickson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,723
Location
Vidal's knee
You haven't a clue what a first team player is.

Amad has just turned 19 and has played in 7 senior club matches. His transfer fee is irrelevant.

You may as well count the entire U23 squad as first team players if you're going to be this deluded about it, at least then you can get yourself into more hysterics about how big our squad is.
I don't care how old he is or how much he has played. Was Ronaldo a U23 player too? Rooney? I can go on. Ole has decided to keep Elanga and Amad, and they won't play with U23 and they are listed as first-teamers. They are very much a part of the first-team squad. Just because you are angry doesn't mean you know anything, because the proof is that you are clueless.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,533
I think you know it's not fair to compare Maldini with most players and i think you know we did give that level of responsibility to players deemed ready: Greenwood.. Even Ronaldo was looking like a "low football brain" player for a couple of seasons. James is limited yes, but he is reliable in both fitness and in doing the tactical work that we want in some games (he was key in some big games for us with the threat he was on the counter).

His reliability in terms of fitness is a key point for us, especially at the beginning of the season for the reasons I already mentioned, and you ignored.


Again, those players for different reasons are not available or ready. As things stand we are in the same place as last season with Sancho in for Rashford, but with Sancho needing a couple of extra weeks of work. He will start next game I think.


SAF gave the class of 92 at least one year of sporadic game time before making them first team regulars, something that seems to be forgotten now. Players that were English, locals and very much at home. Pelistri is a kid that literally moved continents not to mention culture. Dialo had les then 30 mins pro football when he came here and got more play time at second place PL team then his previous club. What more could you possibly ask? He also played at the Olympics making him not ready for the beginning of the season.

DVB is interesting I admit. Based on pre season I suspect he is being prepared for the double pivot role rather then the AM I thought he would be. Something that would indeed require a bit of time as it's different to the system he was used to at Ajax. We will see in the coming games what happens. In hindsight, it was a mistake to start Matic instead of him last game.
I think you're vastly underestimated Sir Alex's situation at the time. That side was Sir Alex's first success story at Manchester United and it was by far the best team in the EPL till that time. It took United ample financial resources, pain and patience as the previous team needed to be dismantled first. Back then there was little to no guarantee that Alex Ferguson would be able to repeat the trick he performed with his first successful side. The fact that Sir Alex's plan seemed to be bonkers didn't help. He was planning to sell the best DM in the EPL, move a box to box midfielder in the DM role and play a striker in midfield. He also planned to sell one of the finest and hardworking strikers in the EPL to buy a goal poacher which was crazy considering that Cantona was a prima donna himself who would never sweat for anyone let alone to a Johnny come lately. Finally Sir Alex was planning to sell the best RW in the EPL (at par to Ryan Giggs on the left) and one of the most promising right wingers in the EPL to play some kid whose only experience was at Preston. That happened at a time when the crown jewel of the class of 92 picked a career threatening injury that would ruin him forever. Many laugh at Hansen now but the thought of Sir Alex going mad was pretty main stream back at the time. I was very young back then but I do remember our share prices plummeting following that strategy and most football pundits were placing us at 3rd-4th place. So to compare all of that to Ole selling our 4th-5th choice winger is a bit too far especially considering that most of us agree (fans, pundits, neutrals) that we need a top CM far more then we need James.

Regarding my comment about Maldini I was simply using him as an example that age is unimportant at times. I could have named other players such as Greenwood or Giggs who were more mature then their age suggest. However that's not really important. We're talking about a 4th-5th choice winger here and I do believe that at least 1 between Elanga, Diallo or Pellistri can cover the role. I am not a pro Glazer fan quite the contrary however on one thing they are correct ie that we've got an enormous squad. Now I understand (although not share) that many fans don't want to see Jones go because "sob story", they don't want Mata or Grant to leave because "they might become coaches", Jesse because "he's young and learning", James because "he might be useful in the event of an apocalypse where every other winger at our disposal might be busy fighting off zombies" and Matic because I don't know about that. However that comes with a price and the price seems to be starting the season with no quality first team level DM.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
15,545
I don't care how old he is or how much he has played. Was Ronaldo a U23 player too? Rooney? I can go on. Ole has decided to keep Elanga and Amad, and they won't play with U23 and they are listed as first-teamers. They are very much a part of the first-team squad. Just because you are angry doesn't mean you know anything, because the proof is that you are clueless.
They absolutely will play with the under 23s if they remain at the club and don't go out on loan.

What part of "played just 7 games at senior club level" didn't you get?

Rooney had played almost 80 games for Everton by the time United signed him. Even Ronaldo had played over 30 at Sporting. They aren't remotely comparable to Elanga and Amad.

We list players in the first team section of the website every season that spend most, if not all of their season playing with the under 23s. It doesn't mean they're actually first team players.

If you think Amad and Elanga are just going to sit at home every week because they're not in the senior match day squad rather than getting game time with the under 23s I don't know what to tell you.
 

Mickson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,723
Location
Vidal's knee
They absolutely will play with the under 23s if they remain at the club and don't go out on loan.

What part of "played just 7 games at senior club level" didn't you get?

Rooney had played almost 80 games for Everton by the time United signed him. Even Ronaldo had played over 30 at Sporting. They aren't remotely comparable to Elanga and Amad.

We list players in the first team section of the website every season that spend most, if not all of their season playing with the under 23s. It doesn't mean they're actually first team players.

If you think Amad and Elanga are just going to sit at home every week because they're not in the senior match day squad rather than getting game time with the under 23s I don't know what to tell you.
It's exactly the same as Ronaldo, just that he played a few more games. Amad was bought for the first team, not the U18 or U23 (like Hannibal). He is a first-team player in every sense of it, and a regular for his country. U23 has played three games, Amad hasn't been involved in any. So no, he won't play much with the U23. The point is that Elanga and Amad are fighting for a first-team spot, along with James and Mata for example. They are a part of the squad and train regularly with the first team, and not with the U23. And no, United lists players as first-teamers that are part of the first-team and might, in a few cases, play with the U23. D'Mani Mellor is listed as a U23 player, because he is one. Amad is 19 and listed as a first-team player, because he is one. Simple as that.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
15,545
It's exactly the same as Ronaldo, just that he played a few more games. Amad was bought for the first team, not the U18 or U23 (like Hannibal). He is a first-team player in every sense of it, and a regular for his country. U23 has played three games, Amad hasn't been involved in any. So no, he won't play much with the U23. The point is that Elanga and Amad are fighting for a first-team spot, along with James and Mata for example. They are a part of the squad and train regularly with the first team, and not with the U23. And no, United lists players as first-teamers that are part of the first-team and might, in a few cases, play with the U23. D'Mani Mellor is listed as a U23 player, because he is one. Amad is 19 and listed as a first-team player, because he is one. Simple as that.
It's not the same as Ronaldo in the slightest, and only someone with the loosest grasp of reality would say it is.

Again, Ronaldo had played over 30 games for Sporting when we signed him. He was a first team player for Sporting and he was signed to be a first team player for us.

Amad had played in just 5 games for Atalanta, all of which were 10 minute cameos off the bench at the end of games. He was signed as a future prospect, albeit an expensive one, and a prospect he remains.

Amad is slightly different to the others you listed, I'll give you that, but if he's not loaned out, he'll almost certainly float between the U23s and the senior side. At most we'll see him in some cup games and maybe against the cannon fodder at the bottom of the PL as the season develops. The reason he's not featured anywhere yet is due to his involvement in the Olympics, which is also the reason Bailly hasn't featured in a squad yet.

As for him being a "regular" for his country, he's made 3 appearances, all off the bench, only one of which was in a competitive fixture where he played the last 5 minutes.

Elanga, Shoretire, Hannibal and Mengi are all in the EFL Trophy squad as U21s. You don't get much more not-first-team than that.

If you want to count any player listed on the club's website under "first-team" as a first team player, by all means do. I just can't for the life of me see why you'd get yourself so wound up about the size of the squad when a) clubs competing on multiple fronts will be very likely to have 30ish players feature in some capacity across the season (some of which will be young players making one or two appearances), b) a good chunk of the players you're crying about won't even have to be registered because they're under the age thresholds, and c) as referenced, they aren't first team players and will only feature very sparingly, if at all.

The fact you're now comparing Amad and Elanga to Rooney and Ronaldo says it all, really.
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
86,296
If it wasn't already obvious, it is now.

Funds available. Just weren't allowed or chose not to spend it.

With such a glaring weakness in the midfield area it makes it clear as day the Glazers will never care enough for us to have a complete squad. They'll sanction the odd big deal but if it actually addresses a weakness that could take us up a level it doesn't interest them enough.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,272
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
To be fair, Ronaldo rumours of signing alone boosted our shares price a fair bit, probably paid off the whole deal + his wages based on that itself.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
12,172
Location
Jamaica
I completely agree. Both James and Lingard, also Bailly, are sellable. Just lower your price a little on Lingard and get it done. It's frankly ridiculous that Ole plans to keep hold of thirteen (!) potential wingers/AM this season: Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Amad, Elanga, Mata, James, Martial, Lingard, Hannibal, Shoretire, Pogba. Bring in Tchouameni at least (I'm unsure of Camavinga bot wouldn't mind).
Why do you think Ole would keep all those players? Besides Hannibal and Shoretire are mainly going to be playing U23 games. And we'll loan out 1 or both of Amad and Elanga. There have been rumours of loans for Amad at least.
 

Leonzo1

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
936
In what world isn't Amad a first-team player? Bought for £42M. Get a grip. All those others are first-teamers too.
Christ. That price just keeps getting higher by the minute doesn't it ? He was bought for 25 Million euros that could potentially rise to a maximum of 40 million euros. You are not doing him or our club any favour by quoting those made up numbers.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
Christ. That price just keeps getting higher by the minute doesn't it ? He was bought for 25 Million euros that could potentially rise to a maximum of 40 million euros. You are not doing him or our club any favour by quoting those made up numbers.
Yeah I'm not sure why @Mickson is inflating the price or what there issue is.

Amad is going to be class and I'm very glad the club moved to get him.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

Full Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
7,052
James unlike Martial and Lingard seems to have clubs that would pay a good price. We would be stupid not to sell now.

LW - Rashford Martial Sancho Ronaldo Lingard
St - Ronaldo Cavani Martial
RW - Greenwood Sancho Mata
 
Last edited:

redMundo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 15, 2019
Messages
86
Location
South Manchester
We have a very strong squad now and some exciting youth prospects to come through over the next couple of seasons.
In my opinion we desperately need a DM and then the build is complete.
There’s a big problem now though in that I think the limit of squad size is 25 and ours is massively bloated.

The way I see it is this:

1. De Gea
2. Wan Bissaka
3. Shaw
4. Varane
5. Maguire
6. Matic
7. Pogba
8. Bruno
9. Rashford
10. Sancho
11. Ronaldo
12. Henderson
13. Dalot
14. Telles
15. Lindelof
16. Bailly
17. Fred
18. Mctominay
19. Van De Beek
20. Martial
21. Greenwood
22. Cavani
23. Heaton
24. James
25. Mata


This is not even including:
26. Jones - can’t realistically be registered.
27. Lingard - needs to go.
Thankfully we’ve managed to get some others also out on loan eg Andreas, Tuanzebe, Amad etc.

If we bring in a DM now (we should) either Matic needs to be moved on or there’s a big decision to be made on Martial/Cavani
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
14,889
Location
Salford
Right..

If Jesse Lingard and Dan James both leave this summer (either for a fee now, or for a guaranteed fee in 12 months that we can pencil in to our accounts) - Do you think that will be enough to get one of Camavinga/ Neves / Saul through the door before the deadline?
 
Last edited:

manuchamp88

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
1,867
Location
UK
Right..

If Jesse Lingard and Dan James both leave this summer (either for a fee now, or for a guaranteed fee in 12 months that we can pencil in to our accounts) - Do you think that will be enough to get Camavinga/ Neves / Saul through the door before the deadline?
I think so. I would like to think that if just one of them leaves, it'd be enough. I'm not an insider or anything - just my opinion.