Gundogan actually started of as an AM, and moved into a deeper role when Sahin left. He is more than capable of carrying the ball forward and provide penetration into the final third.
All true. But he doesn't beat a man from standing nearly as often as Wilshere does. He'll beat them by being part of fluid passing moves, running on to another player's lay-off or pass. But Wilshere has this knack of recovering the ball and immediately taking one or two opponents out of the game with his first couple of touches, bursting away from them.
Two out and out wingers? Probably not, but then our best football in the last decade came in 2006 with Giggs tucking in and Ronaldo pushing high up the pitch rather than with two out and out wingers. That's pretty much exactly how Bayern set up yesterday with Ribery and Robben and Kuba plays as a winger for Dortmund. I think we could play that way with Valencia and Welbeck, for example.
I think you're making stuff up about Gundogan to be honest. He's definitely got that burst of acceleration. Wilshere averages 2.6 dribbles per game, Gundogan 2.4. You don't need the numbers to see that Gundogan does this on a regular basis anyway. Using your logic since Gundogan dribbles almost as much in a team that requires him to dribble less he must be more inclined that way than even Wilshere. I don't think that's quite the case and I do think Wilshere's the better dribbler but there's not this huge difference. It just seems like something people are clinging onto to say "but...but Wilshere can do this better, see". The success of these two young German teams puts the Wilshere hype in perspective really, as it was always going to. The English media would go crazy over Gotze and Gundogan given how they worshipped Wilshere.
Out of interest, which players are you referring to as 'fairly average'?.
That performance of Wilshere's is very overrated. He was good and showed some moments of class, but it wasn't all that. Gundohan has been consistently top notch for Dortmund for a team that is genuinely challenging for big honors. Wilshere is a lot more potential rather than proven as is made out. He's not like a Bale who has had consistent periods (or seasons) of quality performances.
It's a good quality to have but it's not everything. Xavi doesn't have that ability to glide past players either but Wilshere will never be on his level.
No-one except idiots who watch him on highlight reels after a good day believe he's even close to 'proven'.
Most of them dream of Bayern. And Bayern can afford them at the moment
"I admit it is not that easy to play down seeing yourself linked to Manchester United in newspapers, but I feel I am doing OK with that," he told Sportinformationsdienst.
We can dream
I agree with that.
They're don't watch much football outside of the premier league then.
How can you know that? Wilshere is a better player than Xavi was at the same age and has already performed admirably when facing him when xavi was arguably at the peak of his powers.
Personally, I don't know how people manage to watch so much football.
Well, of course it isn't, but the chances are higher than Welbeck will become better than Henry than Wilshere becoming better than Xavi. Xavi is probably the best playmaker of all time, doubt that we will see anything like that for some time.
The Gundogan thread was about 2 pages long before the Madrid game
Gundogan can do it, he has good acceleration and has that low centre of gravity . That little 3 man dribble against madrid at about 62 minutes showed exactly what he can do.
I'm not saying that Gundogan can't do it, just that because of the type of player he is, he doesn't do it as often as Wilshere, who seems to be able to lose a couple of players almost every time he gets the ball.
Thats like saying we play a 3 man midfield - when Kagawa plays in the number 10 role for us he does exactly the same job as he did for Dortmund.
Wow. Just wow. It's the sort of play you always do in Fifa games and wonder why United don't play like that in real life.
PLayed well against them, never understood this nonsense story that he dominated them...
We already have Cleverley who puts in a shift in midfield whenever he plays, so it actually quite silly to think that Gundogan is the missing piece in the puzzle that will bring our pressing game up a notch.The thing I really like about Gundogan is how mobile and aggressive he is, actually. Wilshere's got that bit more aggression but he gives away a lot of stupid fouls because of that.
I didn't say we should copy them, all I said was I'd like to see us adopt a pressing game. We were a well-drilled unit against Madrid, everyone knew their roles and we pressed intelligently (but intermittently). I'd just like to see that taken up a notch. Bayern had to do the same just to compete with Dortmund, I'd love for us to be the first English team to get onto that personally. I'll settle for us just integrating Kagawa and van Persie into the team properly and playing more sexy one-touch football. It's not about copying Dortmund, I just want us to build on our own football. This is all I was talking about when I said we've played Dortmund-style football:
Agreed, the pace and accuracy of their passing is incredible. They carve teams to bits with 1-2s and accurate through balls, it really is amazing football.Wow. Just wow. It's the sort of play you always do in Fifa games and wonder why United don't play like that in real life.
We should buy #23.
