Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
13,871
Location
Sunny Manc
This show is a 9/10 show until Season 5. I knew it was in trouble for the rest of the duration when Stannis out of nowhere burned Shireen at the stake with zero buildup (in a show that was themed around character conflicts) and then got dispatched off screen by Brianne of Tarth 2 seconds later.

And Dorne got fecked royally in this. There was no point in having anyone from Dorne in the show apart from Oberyn.
Even Oberyn was pretty pointless in the show in the grand scheme of it. Came in for a few eps, was cool, then died without any real consequence or impact on the show (besides zombie mountain, which didn’t really change much either).
 

Kazi

Full Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
11,311
Location
SIIIUUUUUU
Wish they ran out of budget after season 4

What a show until then

Season 1 was clearly the best though, anyone who thinks season 3/4 was best is a filthy casual
 

Tyrion

Full Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
5,180
Location
Ireland
Third rewatch. Forgot how good season 1 is, think it gets less praise because it’s less action oriented than the following series’.
Agreed. In the later seasons, the show became obsessed with pleasing the casual fans who wanted "big moments" and complained about the "filler". The show runners mentioned they tried to have a big moment in every episode by then and it made it worse imo. The best scenes in GoT were the scenes of people talking (and Hardhome).

This show is a 9/10 show until Season 5. I knew it was in trouble for the rest of the duration when Stannis out of nowhere burned Shireen at the stake with zero buildup (in a show that was themed around character conflicts) and then got dispatched off screen by Brianne of Tarth 2 seconds later.

And Dorne got fecked royally in this. There was no point in having anyone from Dorne in the show apart from Oberyn.
The thing with Stannis got ignored at the time because the show had a lot of good will built up and he wasn't many peoples favourite character but it annoyed me and, in hindsight, was an early warning of the problems the show would have later on. Large armies disintegrating, smart characters acting dumb (Stannis kills his daughter to raise the temperature two degrees after his whole army has starved) and the villains becoming incredibly competent to add tension (Ramsey starves an entire army with about 4 people) are all things that happen later.

The problem with Dorne was they had to slim it down and ended up making their own smaller story for it. Unfortunately they're not much good without GRRM laying the tracks for them first.

Still irritates me to this day. It was hard to even know if he was actually dead or not. For a show that likes display characters getting brutally murdered it was a really weird one.
I remember people speculating that he was still alive two seasons later. At that point, they just wanted to kill of story threads though.
 

Eplel

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
1,925
Third rewatch. Forgot how good season 1 is, think it gets less praise because it’s less action oriented than the following series’.
It's exactly why the first season is better.

Imo, after the end of the 3rd season, the show's quality falls off a cliff.

The series suffered because it used it's interesting and well written characters and stories as fodder, and there was too much fan service to all the khalissi and Jon snow fans.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
Even Oberyn was pretty pointless in the show in the grand scheme of it. Came in for a few eps, was cool, then died without any real consequence or impact on the show (besides zombie mountain, which didn’t really change much either).
Oberyn does the exact same in the books though, his whole death moves Dorne towards taking action against the Iron Throne. Granted in the show its then different at that point with the utterly awful Sand Snakes but Oberyn is pretty much book to screen at least.
Did they ever show Syrio dying?
No, Syrio never gets an on screen death. Ayras internal thoughts in the book point out the obvious to her, that hes fighting a fully armoured knight while unamoured and fighting with a stick so theres only one outcome really.

Theres some theory that Syrio turns in to Jaqen Hgar though.
 

Sylar

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
40,254
Oberyn does the exact same in the books though, his whole death moves Dorne towards taking action against the Iron Throne. Granted in the show its then different at that point with the utterly awful Sand Snakes but Oberyn is pretty much book to screen at least.


No, Syrio never gets an on screen death. Ayras internal thoughts in the book point out the obvious to her, that hes fighting a fully armoured knight while unamoured and fighting with a stick so theres only one outcome really.

Theres some theory that Syrio turns in to Jaqen Hgar though.
Syrio into jaqen into the white horse theory lives on
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
13,871
Location
Sunny Manc
Oberyn does the exact same in the books though, his whole death moves Dorne towards taking action against the Iron Throne. Granted in the show its then different at that point with the utterly awful Sand Snakes but Oberyn is pretty much book to screen at least.
In the books there are consequences that will happen as a result though, one way or the other. Oberyn’s brief stint in the book moves the entire Dorne plot. The sand snakes and pretty much all of Dorne on the show were completely pointless.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
In the books there are consequences that will happen as a result though, one way or the other. Oberyn’s brief stint in the book moves the entire Dorne plot. The sand snakes and pretty much all of Dorne on the show were completely pointless.
Yeah TV Dorne was simply awful.
 

Zen86

Full Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
13,871
Location
Sunny Manc
Yeah TV Dorne was simply awful.
It’s a shame because the whole Dorne story arc had a lot of intrigue and build up in the books, although we still don’t know where it’s actually going. Was bitterly disappointed in how the show played it out though (or didn’t play it out, rather). Same goes for the Stannis arc as well.
 

cafecillos

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
1,387
It’s a shame because the whole Dorne story arc had a lot of intrigue and build up in the books, although we still don’t know where it’s actually going. Was bitterly disappointed in how the show played it out though (or didn’t play it out, rather). Same goes for the Stannis arc as well.
To be fair to the show writers, GRRM doesn't know either.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,784
To be fair to the show writers, GRRM doesn't know either.

That's very true i do wonder if anyone else will finish the books like with the Wheel of Time series as i am convinced Martin has no idea where to go and basically wrote himself into a wall
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
10,464
Third rewatch. Forgot how good season 1 is, think it gets less praise because it’s less action oriented than the following series’.
The first season is the best, and it's not particularly close, in my opinion. The world/character building, story telling, dialogues and acting is superior to the rest of the series. Even the action is better, because it's less frequent, but more meaningful. The short fights like Ned vs. Jamie and Bronn vs. Ser Vardis are all intense, well-choreographed and very important to the plot. They just seem more grounded and realistic. When looking at the plot twists, I also don't think anything beats Ned's death - it was beautifully done. Season 1 is also the first and last season that doesn't have a problem with lighting. And it has the one true king, Bobby B!

I could go on, but people that prefer season 2 or 3 are simply not intelligent.
 

Woodzy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
14,697
Location
Cardiff
The first season is the best, and it's not particularly close, in my opinion. The world/character building, story telling, dialogues and acting is superior to the rest of the series. Even the action is better, because it's less frequent, but more meaningful. The short fights like Ned vs. Jamie and Bronn vs. Ser Vardis are all intense, well-choreographed and very important to the plot. They just seem more grounded and realistic. When looking at the plot twists, I also don't think anything beats Ned's death - it was beautifully done. Season 1 is also the first and last season that doesn't have a problem with lighting. And it has the one true king, Bobby B!

I could go on, but people that prefer season 2 or 3 are simply not intelligent.
I’d argue Red Wedding, which is one of the most shocking things I’ve ever seen in a TV show, but I’d agree completely with everything else.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
10,464
I’d argue Red Wedding, which is one of the most shocking things I’ve ever seen in a TV show, but I’d agree completely with everything else.
That's fair - it will never be as shocking for me, because I had read the books at that point, so it was a bit different. I also thought it was a bit lame how they added cheap shock value by having Robb's wife violently stabbed in her pregnant belly, when she wasn't even there in the books. Ned's beheading takes it for me, because it was the first real shock of the series, and came to define what it was about. The slow realization that it might actually be happening, and Arya being in the square was just great television.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
It’s a shame because the whole Dorne story arc had a lot of intrigue and build up in the books, although we still don’t know where it’s actually going. Was bitterly disappointed in how the show played it out though (or didn’t play it out, rather). Same goes for the Stannis arc as well.

Yeah it went off a cliff the minute they surpassed the books although some of the changes they made prior to that were already starting to get a little stupid (Robbs wife being one).

Still astounds me that they could make something as brilliant as Hardhome (still the best battle I feel) and utterly mess nearly everything else up.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,172
It’s a shame because the whole Dorne story arc had a lot of intrigue and build up in the books, although we still don’t know where it’s actually going. Was bitterly disappointed in how the show played it out though (or didn’t play it out, rather). Same goes for the Stannis arc as well.
Arianne could have been a great character, no idea why they cut her out, nipples and all.

The first season is the best, and it's not particularly close, in my opinion. The world/character building, story telling, dialogues and acting is superior to the rest of the series. Even the action is better, because it's less frequent, but more meaningful. The short fights like Ned vs. Jamie and Bronn vs. Ser Vardis are all intense, well-choreographed and very important to the plot. They just seem more grounded and realistic. When looking at the plot twists, I also don't think anything beats Ned's death - it was beautifully done. Season 1 is also the first and last season that doesn't have a problem with lighting. And it has the one true king, Bobby B!

I could go on, but people that prefer season 2 or 3 are simply not intelligent.
I’m currently doing a re-read of the first book while watching along on season 1 and I couldn’t agree more. While the more I read and watch the more the two mediums diverge in my mind, I have a growing appreciation for the adaptation they achieved initially. In particular in the early years the show did a great job in conveying just how weird and strange this world is, from Robert Arryn sucking on his mother’s teats to Walder Frey licking his lips talking about his 15 year-old wife’s “honey”. Apart frm everything else, the show writers really struggled to maintain this sense after season 3. The introduction of the Dorne and Iron Islands plots in seasons 5 and 6 might have been a good opportunity to reclaim that spirit of mystery but the writers completely blew it.
 
Last edited:

Salt Bailly

Auburn, not Ginger.
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
9,415
Location
Valinor
Yeah it went off a cliff the minute they surpassed the books although some of the changes they made prior to that were already starting to get a little stupid (Robbs wife being one).

Still astounds me that they could make something as brilliant as Hardhome (still the best battle I feel) and utterly mess nearly everything else up.
Didn't the showrunners say they only adapted the show because they wanted to recreate the red wedding?
 

Salt Bailly

Auburn, not Ginger.
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
9,415
Location
Valinor
I hope not (wouldnt surprise me though) although I seriously doubt they read the books to begin with.
In their defence, and I say that grudgingly after the massacre that was seasons 7 and 8, I think when they begun the show they genuinely expected grrm to have finished the series or at least be at the tail end of it a decade later.
 

Robertd0803

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
6,530
In their defence, and I say that grudgingly after the massacre that was seasons 7 and 8, I think when they begun the show they genuinely expected grrm to have finished the series or at least be at the tail end of it a decade later.

Yeah that is probably true.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
6,502
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
Was it ever confirmed who sent the Kingsguard to attack Tyrion at Blackwater?
In the show it's all but confirmed that it was Joffrey.

In the books it's not clear,
the one person I'm pretty sure it isn't is Cersei since she never mentions it during her POV chapters even when obsessing over Tyrion. It may also be Joffrey but I actually think it was probably Littlefinger.