Garnacho | Officially Chelsea's problem

Nyland said:
His brother clearly works for him and is on the payroll. Not quite sure how that's been 'debunked'. We've evidence he's at press events, photoshoots and more besides. You generally don't bring your family to work with you unless they're working for you.
Click to expand...
He’s only 16 or 17. He’s not his agent. He may very well do all his tweets or something though
 
G3079 said:
He was a big talent when he first stepped on the big scene. Calling him that back then wasn't wrong at all.
But he hasn't really developed from there, so I don't think that "talent" label is still applicable to someone approaching 22 years of age who is still having the exact same issues he had three years ago, but now without the excuse of still being a kid fresh out of the youth team.
Click to expand...
But my point is that exactly. I don't think he ever had attributes needed to become top player, and I don't think that has much to do with his attitude.

Of course, attitude has limited him further, but whenever I watch him, I see the same one dimensional player I first saw.

I think his potential was overrated from the very start, and no amount of work can change that.
 
Nyland said:
His brother clearly works for him and is on the payroll. Not quite sure how that's been 'debunked'. We've evidence he's at press events, photoshoots and more besides. You generally don't bring your family to work with you unless they're working for you.
Click to expand...
Where is the evidence?
 
NinjaZombie said:
Maybe he's just too one-dimensional, and too dumb (football IQ wise) to ever be a consistent threat. There will be games where what he does work for him, and he'd look good, but those games get more and more rare once teams begin to suss him out and figure out a way to stop him, and he's just not able to adjust. Now, you can say why can't his coaches figure this out for him then, and tell him what changes he can make to be more effective? Well, maybe he's too thick to apply it, or too far up his own arse to follow instructions.
Click to expand...
No, I think just general IQ wise. People forget, some of these players are just absolutely thick as mince. Marcos Rojo was another one. Had the physical attributes, but was just a complete moron.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Was he better on the right or the left for Utd? I feel like he'd be better suited to playing on the right where he can simplify his game more.
Click to expand...
He originally broke through as quite an exciting young player on the left, but in his last two seasons the only times he looked good was on the right. Mostly under ETH in the second half of 23/24, but to a lesser extent also under Amorim the few times he played on the right last season.

On the left he's normally too selfish and one-dimensional, whereas on the right he tends to show a bit more variety and be more of a team player. Not always, but more so than on the left.
 
Mb194dc said:
Another winning transfer from Clownlake and our SDs. His performance against West Ham was the worst I've seen from a Chelsea player that I can remember.

There must be something going on with him that makes him so inconsistent, bad attitude maybe or gaming too much.
Click to expand...
NinjaZombie said:
Maybe he's just too one-dimensional, and too dumb (football IQ wise) to ever be a consistent threat. There will be games where what he does work for him, and he'd look good, but those games get more and more rare once teams begin to suss him out and figure out a way to stop him, and he's just not able to adjust. Now, you can say why can't his coaches figure this out for him then, and tell him what changes he can make to be more effective? Well, maybe he's too thick to apply it, or too far up his own arse to follow instructions.
Click to expand...

I’ve long suspected he’s just thick as mince. It would explain a lot.
 
G3079 said:
He was a big talent when he first stepped on the big scene. Calling him that back then wasn't wrong at all.
But he hasn't really developed from there, so I don't think that "talent" label is still applicable to someone approaching 22 years of age who is still having the exact same issues he had three years ago, but now without the excuse of still being a kid fresh out of the youth team.
Click to expand...
Yes and no. He was a good talent but not to the extent that a lot of people made out. Quite a few of us said relatively early on that his potential top level wasn't 'that' high, and indeed he likely wouldn't go on to be that much better than he already was (when he was playing well). His actual skill on the ball never particularly stood out, and combine that with his physical limitations and it always seemed his ceiling was limited. His top two attributes were his off-the-ball movement in attacking areas and his never stop trying mentality so the hope was that they'd carry him on to be a good goal scorer.

He's basically a slower, smaller, weaker, less talented version of Rashford.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
But my point is that exactly. I don't think he ever had attributes needed to become top player, and I don't think that has much to do with his attitude.

Of course, attitude has limited him further, but whenever I watch him, I see the same one dimensional player I first saw.

I think his potential was overrated from the very start, and no amount of work can change that.
Click to expand...
I think we just have slightly different ideas of what "talent" means. To me a talent is merely somebody who looks like they might develop into someone good enough for the first team in time, it doesn't mean that they're good enough to be a starter right now. Their "atrributes" and abilities still need developing, and if they don't make that progress they just lose that talent status. Not every kid turns out to be a winner, that's just how it is. Whether that's because their physical limits are lower than they were thought to be possibly be, or because of mentality issues. Or they might develop well, maybe even better than suspected, and become an important part of the team.

Being a talent doesn't mean that they're "there" yet, it just means that they could get there with time, effort and luck. And Garnacho to me certainly did look like he could become someone one day back when he started playing for the men's team. Yes, he had limitations and plenty of room for improvement. But nothing indicated that those weren't things he could improve in, given time. Physique can fill out, shots and dribling can improve, tactics and positioning can be learned, etc. What matters is that the base looks solid enough to be worth a punt.
MadDogg said:
Yes and no. He was a good talent but not to the extent that a lot of people made out. Quite a few of us said relatively early on that his potential top level wasn't 'that' high, and indeed he likely wouldn't go on to be that much better than he already was (when he was playing well). His actual skill on the ball never particularly stood out, and combine that with his physical limitations and it always seemed his ceiling was limited. His top two attributes were his off-the-ball movement in attacking areas and his never stop trying mentality so the hope was that they'd carry him on to be a good goal scorer.

He's basically a slower, smaller, weaker, less talented version of Rashford.
Click to expand...
See, I fully agree with that. I'm pretty sure I've written it somewhere in this thread before, but I believe United fans massively overhyped the quality and promise of Garnacho because in an attack that often looked lifeless and out of ideas, he at least looked like he could make something happen. Even if he did not score that often, his runs made at least for some excitement, and in dire times that was already enough to make some people believe that he was a lot better than he was. I agree with what you say about where his qualities lie. I did not see him as the next big thing either, but I still do think that he could have what it takes to at least be a decent EPL player if he gets his head sorted out.
 
G3079 said:
See, I fully agree with that. I'm pretty sure I've written it somewhere in this thread before, but I believe United fans massively overhyped the quality and promise of Garnacho because in an attack that often looked lifeless and out of ideas, he at least looked like he could make something happen. Even if he did not score that often, his runs made at least for some excitement, and in dire times that was already enough to make some people believe that he was a lot better than he was. I agree with what you say about where his qualities lie. I did not see him as the next big thing either, but I still do think that he could have what it takes to at least be a decent EPL player if he gets his head sorted out.
Click to expand...
I think he'd be much better off going to another league where his speed can stand out a bit more and he won't be physically pushed around as much. I could actually see him doing quite well if he goes to Spain/Italy/Germany and gets his head down and works hard. Similar to how Antony has done at Betis and a bunch of our players have done in Italy.

Almost all defenders in the PL simply outmatch him physically and he doesn't have the all-round game to compensate for that.
 
MadDogg said:
I think he'd be much better off going to another league where his speed can stand out a bit more and he won't be physically pushed around as much. I could actually see him doing quite well if he goes to Spain/Italy/Germany and gets his head down and works hard. Similar to how Antony has done at Betis and a bunch of our players have done in Italy.

Almost all defenders in the PL simply outmatch him physically and he doesn't have the all-round game to compensate for that.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It was obvious last summer a move to Italy or similar was his best chance. I just don’t think he has what it takes to become a great success in the PL.
 
MadDogg said:
I think he'd be much better off going to another league where his speed can stand out a bit more and he won't be physically pushed around as much. I could actually see him doing quite well if he goes to Spain/Italy/Germany and gets his head down and works hard. Similar to how Antony has done at Betis and a bunch of our players have done in Italy.

Almost all defenders in the PL simply outmatch him physically and he doesn't have the all-round game to compensate for that.
Click to expand...
Depends on what he prioritises. He'll probably get a bigger paycheck playing for some midtable EPL team than he'll receive on the continent. But he has a better chance actually being a good and impactful player going abroad as you propose.
Either way his success will majorly depend on him getting his head out of his arse and putting in the work.
 
G3079 said:
See, I fully agree with that. I'm pretty sure I've written it somewhere in this thread before, but I believe United fans massively overhyped the quality and promise of Garnacho because in an attack that often looked lifeless and out of ideas, he at least looked like he could make something happen. Even if he did not score that often, his runs made at least for some excitement, and in dire times that was already enough to make some people believe that he was a lot better than he was. I agree with what you say about where his qualities lie. I did not see him as the next big thing either, but I still do think that he could have what it takes to at least be a decent EPL player if he gets his head sorted out.
Click to expand...
I agree and it's a pretty usual occurence. Januzaj was "future world class" and Martial was "as good as Mbappe". Mind you, it doesn't only happen at United.
 
He was hard working when he broke through and that part of his went as he felt he became good too good for that. I felt he was quicker when he broke through too, was deadly in counters - in his final season for us, really felt much slower
 
Arguably the best sale the club has made in recent memory. The sort of sale Chelsea and Liverpool have made over the years leaving opposition fans wondering how they pulled it off.

He’ll end up at a mid table Spanish team which is probably his level ability wise anyway.
 
mikeyt said:
Arguably the best sale the club has made in recent memory. The sort of sale Chelsea and Liverpool have made over the years leaving opposition fans wondering how they pulled it off.

He’ll end up at a mid table Spanish team which is probably his level ability wise anyway.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling it'll be Lazio, or he'll disapear back to Argentina.
 
Was amazed when he was promoted to the first team

That said, he came in with the exuberance of youth. Showing oppo zero respect (a good thing) and just through sheer will to impact matches often made things happen at a time when we were pretty toothless. A great impact player in that first period that then raised expectations

But, the exuberance wears off and the impact wains. Certainly when starting. And his development is non existent

Then it becomes apparent he’s not quite as professional as others and is quick to sulk when not starting

Can’t see him lasting at Chelsea and from there his top epl teams are limited. He won’t excel in other leagues either is my prediction. Just a decent winger who’s only hope, is that a skint Barca see him as a good squad option in a few years when his value has plummeted.

Never felt like he had a high ceiling. Just another over celebrated youth prospect that quite frankly, we’ve done well to get as much as we did.
 
Garnacho's style of play reminds me so much of Kieran Richardson during his time in United. Lot of speed and flair but no end product and questionable decision making. At least Kieran have better attitude and professional, something Garnacho seems to lack of.
 
He is a really odd player. You watch him the majority of the time and aren't too impressed but his ouput is actually quite good. If he wasn't such a nob with a circus around him I'd be very tempted to make an audacious swoop for him.
 
dann496 said:
Garnacho's style of play reminds me so much of Kieran Richardson during his time in United. Lot of speed and flair but no end product and questionable decision making. At least Kieran have better attitude and professional, something Garnacho seems to lack of.
Click to expand...
Recency bias?

I mean, we gave Kieran the nickname Lord Snooty after all. His attitude and behaviour was eerily similar to Garnacho's.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
Recency bias?

I mean, we gave Kieran the nickname Lord Snooty after all. His attitude and behaviour was eerily similar to Garnacho's.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they are more similar than not; early tastes of the big life completely distorted their self-perception and gave them egos their ability couldn't cash.

Richardson is more a cautionary tale for Garnacho than almost anyone else that came through at United.
 
We got a decent fee, but we could have gotten more if not for Amorim.
 
If he'd continued to get games he'd no doubt have wanted to stay. But by his own admission a few things with his own behaviour weren't right.
Much better to recognise this now - and try and put it right going forward then to only realise at 40!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.