Garnacho (Out)

So by that logic every player that hasn't moved in the first week of the transfer window is shit?

Sounds like a dumb arse way to look at it to me, but we can all disagree.
 
SilentWitness said:
Do you really think that football is as simple as you sell a player for 150m so that means you have 50m to spend on one player?
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No, I do not think football is that simple, but if they get 150 with an initial price of 110m in installments, then they will absolutely have the financial means to buy a player for 50m with installments on 5 years. Yes Leverkusen is not as big as united, but they are no small club, they played a champions league final 20 years ago.
 
If we sell and he has a good career elsewhere then so be it. City have sold a lot of young players who have shined elsewhere. Palmer being one. We could just aswell sell him and he doesn’t really hit the heights he should be. Could be another januzaj for all we know.
 
RuudTom83 said:
This is the Garnacho thread! not the Sancho thread.

Plenty of clubs will want this kid...he is fecking brilliant!
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Ye plenty more clubs will be interested if we’ve made him available for peanuts. We shouldn’t be getting anything less than 40m for him.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
That is pretty simple yes. They could choose to do something else with that money if they think it's a better choice for them.
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Giggsyking said:
No, I do not think football is that simple, but if they get 150 with an initial price of 110m in installments, then they will absolutely have the financial means to buy a player for 50m with installments on 5 years. Yes Leverkusen is not as big as united, but they are no small club, they played a champions league final 20 years ago.
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Not really. There are many scenarios which mean money coming into a club does not mean you have that money to be able to come out of the club for another player.

Then of course you get onto the point of what clubs should or is better for them to do. I think it's quite clear from the way Bundesliga and German clubs operate outside of Bayern that they rarely, if ever splurge on one player and instead try to pursue a model of maximising profit down the line.
 
I really hope other clubs see something in him that I don’t
 
JBG said:
I keep seeing this, but in recent history there's only been 2 players ever we can say we regret selling and that is Stam(who we didn't miss as much, but even SAF said he regretted it) and CR(the first time, but we did pretty good after him, but we've would've been so much better with him still in the team, also doesn't help that we replaced him with Obertan and Owen).

So no we won't regret selling a player that's 20 years old, that still looks like the player he was when he broke through, but on top of that got an even worse attitude after becoming a 1st team regular. He is not a talent of the levels of CR, Messi, Neymar, Yamal, Rooney or even someone like Doué.
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Thanks appreciate you putting me straight on that. Maybe next time the club are looking for someone in recruitment you should apply.

He's a decent talent, he's not afraid of trusting himself to make the difference and he never let's a miss or mistake put him off going again. I think it's a mistake, like you I'm entitled to my own opinion.
 
The Sad Clown said:
Come on now. There is a very little evidence to support such a statement.
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Speak for yourself Sad Clown...I've got lots of memories of him doing amazing things.

He is a fantastic talent! and I'm not gonna criticise a kid in a squad full of senior players putting up 2 out of 10 performances every week.

But I'm not trying to convince anyone, he will be sold and will bring in a nice sum for United's rebuild.
 
Pexbo said:
I really hope other clubs see something in him that I don’t
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Yeah i see all these posts saying he is or will be a top player and I'm really curious as to what makes people say that with such certainty.

Right now the only attribute he has that I'd consider top class is his movement and off the ball running. And he has a good work rate.

But his finishing, passing, crossing and decision making are all average at best in my eyes.
 
sizzling sausages said:
Yeah i see all these posts saying he is or will be a top player and I'm really curious as to what makes people say that with such certainty.

Right now the only attribute he has that I'd consider top class is his movement and off the ball running. And he has a good work rate.

But his finishing, passing, crossing and decision making are all average at best in my eyes.
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I think his cut back cross on his left has really improved and has become quite dangerous to be fair.
 
People just ignoring the fact he's 20 years of age!

A. That means he is either going to be incredibly mature for his age or in some cases really immature, judging by his behaviour it's the later. Sometimes you've got to let someone grow up mentally, it can happen really quickly.

B. 20 years of age is also no age to be judging a player on development. He could have two outstanding and then an average season. I'd argue he's been overplayed in the wrong way. He should have been deployed mainly from the bench during the last few years. We can't keep harping back to Sir Alex but he'd have drip fed him games keeping his career in line with its trajectory.

What's basically happened is we've allowed and immature kid to believe his own hype and elevated stature at the football club. He looks at players failing around him and he feels he's better. That's nothing new in football, but he shouldn't be mentally where he is now in his mind. That's the problem, he's being badly advised and he's doing immature random social media posts. God knows why the club doesn't install some sort of social media clause in contracts to stop them post cryptic messages.

Anyway it's all irrelevant, we're selling him for a manager that lost the best part of 20 league games and lost us a cup final that has put us back 5 years financially. He will be gone in a matter of weeks as there will be shortage of takers I'm sure.
 
SilentWitness said:
Not really. There are many scenarios which mean money coming into a club does not mean you have that money to be able to come out of the club for another player.

Then of course you get onto the point of what clubs should or is better for them to do. I think it's quite clear from the way Bundesliga and German clubs operate outside of Bayern that they rarely, if ever splurge on one player and instead try to pursue a model of maximising profit down the line.
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Yes nearly any example of anything can happen at any given time. But let's talk about this scenario (which is similar to most scenarios with clubs the size of Leverkusen).

If Leverkusen, a football club with zero debt get 150m pure profit for a player then yes they absolutely without question could buy a player for 50m if they so choose. They could also invest it into infrastructure or whatever. It's all a choice.
 
Devil81 said:
People just ignoring the fact he's 20 years of age!

A. That means he is either going to be incredibly mature for his age or in some cases really immature, judging by his behaviour it's the later. Sometimes you've got to let someone grow up mentally, it can happen really quickly.

B. 20 years of age is also no age to be judging a player on development. He could have two outstanding and then an average season. I'd argue he's been overplayed in the wrong way. He should have been deployed mainly from the bench during the last few years. We can't keep harping back to Sir Alex but he'd have drip fed him games keeping his career in line with its trajectory.

What's basically happened is we've allowed and immature kid to believe his own hype and elevated stature at the football club. He looks at players failing around him and he feels he's better. That's nothing new in football, but he shouldn't be mentally where he is now in his mind. That's the problem, he's being badly advised and he's doing immature random social media posts. God knows why the club doesn't install some sort of social media clause in contracts to stop them post cryptic messages.

Anyway it's all irrelevant, we're selling him for a manager that lost the best part of 20 league games and lost us a cup final that has put us back 5 years financially. He will be gone in a matter of weeks as there will be shortage of takers I'm sure.
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This comment is going to age incredibly poorly.
sizzling sausages said:
Yeah i see all these posts saying he is or will be a top player and I'm really curious as to what makes people say that with such certainty.

Right now the only attribute he has that I'd consider top class is his movement and off the ball running. And he has a good work rate.

But his finishing, passing, crossing and decision making are all average at best in my eyes.
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Which matches the reports on his future prospects when he was in the academy. Quick, direct, could score goals, capable of the spectacular at times, but limited passer, decision maker, crosser, and many people close to the youth set up felt those were areas he was unlikely to make great strides in the future.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Yes nearly any example of anything can happen at any given time. But let's talk about this scenario (which is similar to most scenarios with clubs the size of Leverkusen).

If Leverkusen, a football club with zero debt get 150m pure profit for a player then yes they absolutely without question could buy a player for 50m if they so choose. They could also invest it into infrastructure or whatever. It's all a choice.
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Yet they have a proven track record of 'choosing' not to go anywhere near that type of spend for a player.
 
:( Goodbye my sweet prince. Had high hopes for him. 20+ G/A last season in a terrible team. Think we are making a mistake.

But no player is bigger than the club.
 
He was a key starter in attack for the worst forward line in the league, yes he's only 20 but there's no guarantees on how he progresses and as things stand he's not good enough to start for a team who wants to be successful. He might be in future but we need to operate in the here and now. It's crazy, the amount of fans saying he's brilliant and also saying it's not Rasmus' fault we were shit in attack. These are 2 of our starting forwards but apparently it's not their fault we can't hit a barn door in the league
 
This new narrative doing the rounds that we’re selling off all of our wingers and we won’t have any if Amorim is fired.

Boohoo

First of all it’s all of the troublemakers who can’t be arsed to put the work in but are quick to take to social media and write all kinds of crap. Keep them? No. That’s not how you build a squad that all pulls together. Get them all out. Set a marker down that it’s not acceptable.

Secondly, we don’t play with wingers so why do we want to keep them? Oh in case Amorim gets sacked? So you’re going to keep them because you expect the coach to be fired. That’s optimism eh. So you don’t want the club to build up the actual resources that the coach needs to have the best chance of being successful. Talk about setting him up to fail!
 
golden_blunder said:
This new narrative doing the rounds that we’re selling off all of our wingers and we won’t have any if Amorim is fired.

Boohoo

First of all it’s all of the troublemakers who can’t be arsed to put the work in but are quick to take to social media and write all kinds of crap. Keep them? No. That’s not how you build a squad that all pulls together. Get them all out. Set a marker down that it’s not acceptable.

Secondly, we don’t play with wingers so why do we want to keep them? Oh in case Amorim gets sacked? So you’re going to keep them because you expect the coach to be fired. That’s optimism eh. So you don’t want the club to build up the actual resources that the coach needs to have the best chance of being successful. Talk about setting him up to fail!
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So far we've signed 2 players under Amorim and both have played numerous games as a winger. I'm pretty sure Dorgu has actually played more games as a winger than a full back.

And the player we're likely to sign next scored 20 goals in the league last season playing as a winger.
 
We might be making a mistake here. I hope this does not come back biting us in the behind. The lad is 20 and has plenty of amazing attributes and besides, who's to say if Amorim is here 3 months from now.

Imo, both ETH and Amorim are poor people managers for whom managing in Dutch and Portuguese league was easy but when it comes to managing players of a certain calibre or mercurial temper, both of them would fail.

For SAF, who was another league but even Ole, LvG or Jose would be better than our recent hire
 
golden_blunder said:
This new narrative doing the rounds that we’re selling off all of our wingers and we won’t have any if Amorim is fired.

Boohoo

First of all it’s all of the troublemakers who can’t be arsed to put the work in but are quick to take to social media and write all kinds of crap. Keep them? No. That’s not how you build a squad that all pulls together. Get them all out. Set a marker down that it’s not acceptable.

Secondly, we don’t play with wingers so why do we want to keep them? Oh in case Amorim gets sacked? So you’re going to keep them because you expect the coach to be fired. That’s optimism eh. So you don’t want the club to build up the actual resources that the coach needs to have the best chance of being successful. Talk about setting him up to fail!
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You don't have to keep those specific players, but in terms of squad building and balance of the squad it would be sensible to have some players who can provide a bit of pace and width, yeah.

Let's not pretend it's some kind of dystopian idea that Amorim could get sacked. He's barely won a game whilst manager of Man Utd and he's extremely fortunate he's been afforded the space to clear the squad and rebuild it as he wants it in the context of the results he's provided so far. If the results he's produced so far continue into next season, he'll be lucky to see 10 games. Hopefully he manages to fix up because nobody wants to see that, but we need to prepare for all eventualities. These kinds of oversights in previous seasons have left us where we are now.
 
sizzling sausages said:
So far we've signed 2 players under Amorim and both have played numerous games as a winger. I'm pretty sure Dorgu has actually played more games as a winger than a full back.

And the player we're likely to sign next scored 20 goals in the league last season playing as a winger.
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Good point. We’re getting well setup with players who can play multiple positions. Another good reason why the narrative is a pile of crap for people to cry over
 
CM said:
You don't have to keep those specific players, but in terms of squad building and balance of the squad it would be sensible to have some players who can provide a bit of pace and width, yeah.

Let's not pretend it's some kind of dystopian idea that Amorim could get sacked. He's barely won a game whilst manager of Man Utd and he's extremely fortunate he's been afforded the space to clear the squad and rebuild it as he wants it in the context of the results he's provided so far. If the results he's produced so far continue into next season, he'll be lucky to see 10 games. Hopefully he manages to fix up because nobody wants to see that, but we need to prepare for all eventualities. These kinds of oversights in previous seasons have left us where we are now.
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As @sizzling sausages called out, Cunha, Mbeumo and even Dorgu can play as wingers

We don’t need to keep shit stirrers
 
He may develop into a good player, he might not. We can't afford to take that risk given he's got history of undermining Managers. It's that simple really.

Let's hope we use the funds and put it towards a new GK / Midfielder.
 
VP89 said:
Dorgu was a right winger for Lecce pretty much as many times as he was a left back?
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Having watched him for half a season, do you look at him and really regard him as a winger?
 
Besides we don’t play with wingers anyway so any more reason to keep Rashford, Sancho and Garnacho?

Maybe for team building purposes
 
CM said:
Having watched him for half a season, do you look at him and really regard him as a winger?
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I don't really regard him as a LWB either so its not saying much.
 
Wait, I keep being told that a Man Utd manager should be flexible enough to get a tune out of all available players.

Surely whoever we bring in if Amorim loses his job would have the "managerial nous" to get plenty out of Cunha, Mbuemo and a striker?
 
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