Garnacho (Out)

Should we sell or keep Garnacho?


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Garnacho was fast tracked into a shite squad and became an automatic starter for the last 2 seasons. Rightly or wrongly he reacted badly to being replaced by Mount in the Final, who in comparison has done absolutely nothing in a United shirt. It really needs to be studied why so many managers are in love with Mason.

Most fans should be able to sympathise with Garnacho even if they still want him to leave in the summer.
 
Garnacho was fast tracked into a shite squad and became an automatic starter for the last 2 seasons. Rightly or wrongly he reacted badly to being replaced by Mount in the Final, who in comparison has done absolutely nothing in a United shirt. It really needs to be studied why so many managers are in love with Mason.

Most fans should be able to sympathise with Garnacho even if they still want him to leave in the summer.
This is pretty much where I stand on the situation. He deserved to start over Mount in the final, and Amorim certainly should have rectified his mistake earlier than the 70th minute. Yes, Garnacho reacted petuntantly after the final whistle, which is hardly unusual for modern footballers, but I do wonder how different his United career would have turned out if we had a manager who actually played with wingers, and how likely we are to miss his direct dribbling if Amorim is sacked a few months after we sell him.

Having said all that, bridges have been burned now so it's best to try selling him and hope that we don't get lowballed with offers the entire window. Everyone knew we wanted to sell Lukaku in 2019 but we still managed to hold out for a decent fee. Maybe something similar will happen here.
 
Garnacho was fast tracked into a shite squad and became an automatic starter for the last 2 seasons. Rightly or wrongly he reacted badly to being replaced by Mount in the Final, who in comparison has done absolutely nothing in a United shirt. It really needs to be studied why so many managers are in love with Mason.

Most fans should be able to sympathise with Garnacho even if they still want him to leave in the summer.
Totally agree, and I also agree with Garnacho's post match strop. Imagine being in such a shit team and having to watch your team doing feck-all against a terrible Spurs, and the manager sits there with his thumb up his ass for 70+ minutes. He knows had they won that, that Europe was beckoning, and so on. He was right to be pissed off.
 
I think there are bigger problems to address than a 20 yr old who lets say has been somewhat contributing in terms of goals and assists.

If we works on his finishing a bit, the amount of chances he gets are more than any player in the current team.

Questions about attitude but I still feels he has a little fire inside of him which can be molded with right coaching. Unless a 60/70 mil bid arrives that lets us strengthen multiple positions, we would be regretting selling him in a couple of years.

He might have overreacted and made a fool out of himself after the final, but would give benefit of doubt to a guy who’s just 20 right now with not much to look up to.
 
Totally agree, and I also agree with Garnacho's post match strop. Imagine being in such a shit team and having to watch your team doing feck-all against a terrible Spurs, and the manager sits there with his thumb up his ass for 70+ minutes. He knows had they won that, that Europe was beckoning, and so on. He was right to be pissed off.
Gernacho was a part of that shit team. It's stupid attitudes like yours that have contributed towards some of our players growing egos and developing a sense of entitlement over the years. People around them and on social media kiss their arse and tell them nothing is their fault, and they start believing it.

Cant say I'm impressed with the performance of Amorim as a coach so far, but one thing I am happy with is his insistence on players taking accountability for their behaviour, and not tolerating brats like Rashford and Gernacho.
 
It depends if you view it as a starting prize for negotiations, hoping to eventually settle for a price between the buyer's first offer and your own, or if you view it as a minimum price and you're not willing to entertain anyone approaching you with less.
Bartering vs. shop approach, basically.

If United actually really want to see 70m for him, I can't see which non-Arabian club would pay that much for him. He's too much of a project, with too many weaknesses, to command that much of a fee, even at his age. I think 45-55m is where the fee will land eventually, if United don't reconsider and decide to just keep him if they can't achieve a larger payment.
it is definitely a negotiating price start point, since the club wants to sell, of course if he was not for sale, the club would not entertain any offers below 70m for example.

and, I disagree with the bolded, in the right setup, in his preferred LW role, he would be an excellent young player that has the potential to develop further, and remember, lesser players cost as much as 55m (Dortmund are demanding 55m from Chelsea for Gittens), so demanding 70m is sensible and United should not let him go for a measly 40m or 45m, 55m should be the minimum
 
Totally agree, and I also agree with Garnacho's post match strop. Imagine being in such a shit team and having to watch your team doing feck-all against a terrible Spurs, and the manager sits there with his thumb up his ass for 70+ minutes. He knows had they won that, that Europe was beckoning, and so on. He was right to be pissed of
You do realise that garnacho was a massive reason we so shit? People defending him and hojlund saying they were stuck in a shit team when they were 2 of the biggest reasons we were so bad. These 2 were our 2 main starting forwards in a league campaign where we couldn't hit a barn door. The mental gymnastics to defend is insane. Yes they're young, but they were not good enough to be starting in the league and only did as we had no-one else
 
Gernacho was a part of that shit team. It's stupid attitudes like yours that have contributed towards some of our players growing egos and developing a sense of entitlement over the years. People around them and on social media kiss their arse and tell them nothing is their fault, and they start believing it.

Cant say I'm impressed with the performance of Amorim as a coach so far, but one thing I am happy with is his insistence on players taking accountability for their behaviour, and not tolerating brats like Rashford and Gernacho.
Absolutely agree, a pro should respect the manager's decision regardless, far better players were left out, even though Mount was shit in the final, it is not like Garna was going to do much better, he was horrible in the final games, missing sitters coupled with his pratty attitude, no manager will stand for that, and rightly so.
 
People still complaining that he didn’t start in the final? After Mount scored 2 in the semi everyone was saying he should start, and that was cemented, for me, after the Chelsea game. Mount worked hard in that game, got into some good situations to score but ultimately fluffed his lines. But he worked hard and put in a shift in defence and attack (this is why I think managers like him, for those asking) without being great. Garnacho came on and was completely anonymous, and through some pretty weak defending gave Chelsea the winner as soon as he was introduced. For me his fate was nailed after that game. Not to mention how Mount was looking more likely to score whilst Garnacho was missing big chances.
 
United should loan him out and see how the season unfolds with Amorim at this point. Selling him won't net you anywhere near £70mil, heck I think you'll be lucky to get £45-50mil out of Chelsea if they still want him. He's still a big talent and probably warrants a bigger fee but the clubs that make sense for him won't pay such fees.

His attitude has been horrendous at times but he's still young, just needs to mature in the right system and a manager to develop him.

Not sure if he's been linked to them at all but I always thought he'd end up playing under Simeone at Atleti, just looks like that type of player.
I wouldn't be against that if they could do a deal that'd see Julian Alvarez move to United.
 
People still complaining that he didn’t start in the final? After Mount scored 2 in the semi everyone was saying he should start, and that was cemented, for me, after the Chelsea game. Mount worked hard in that game, got into some good situations to score but ultimately fluffed his lines. But he worked hard and put in a shift in defence and attack (this is why I think managers like him, for those asking) without being great. Garnacho came on and was completely anonymous, and through some pretty weak defending gave Chelsea the winner as soon as he was introduced. For me his fate was nailed after that game. Not to mention how Mount was looking more likely to score whilst Garnacho was missing big chances.

People have also forgotten all the other disciplinary issues he's had. He was fined multiple times under Ten Hag for being late to training, we've had prior social media posts and attitude issues.

Talent is a separate discussion but you can't keep players with that attitude in a team. A youngster should be giving it his all to establish himself, he's an entitled brat.

If we can't get a big fee send him out on loan and maybe he comes back humbled when others also refuse to stand for his attitude.
 
Gernacho was a part of that shit team. It's stupid attitudes like yours that have contributed towards some of our players growing egos and developing a sense of entitlement over the years. People around them and on social media kiss their arse and tell them nothing is their fault, and they start believing it.

Cant say I'm impressed with the performance of Amorim as a coach so far, but one thing I am happy with is his insistence on players taking accountability for their behaviour, and not tolerating brats like Rashford and Gernacho.
Ravel, Greenwood, Pogba, Rashy, Jesse and now Garnacho had attitude issues though at a highly different degree (thus making it impossible to compare). The issue here is not the fans but the club who had completely focused on the business side to the expense of the football side. Kids should be sheltered and protected even to the expense of delaying their stardom. Meanwhile bad apples should be removed ASAP. We had way better talent then Garnacho who were shown the door for peanuts and way before they reached full potential. Unfortunately United needed a face to their brand name and clicks/social media interaction became more important then effort and development.
 
You do realise that garnacho was a massive reason we so shit? People defending him and hojlund saying they were stuck in a shit team when they were 2 of the biggest reasons we were so bad. These 2 were our 2 main starting forwards in a league campaign where we couldn't hit a barn door. The mental gymnastics to defend is insane. Yes they're young, but they were not good enough to be starting in the league and only did as we had no-one else
Focus, Ron, focus. This is about Mount starting instead of Garnacho. So your mental gymnastics are propping up Mount, which is even more ridiculous. :lol:
 
Focus, Ron, focus. This is about Mount starting instead of Garnacho. So your mental gymnastics are propping up Mount, which is even more ridiculous. :lol:

And as people have already said, Mount had done better than Garnacho in the games preceding the final - scoring more goals and making fewer errors. Garnacho could have made that final spot his own if he had performed in the run up, but he didn’t.

He definitely should have come on earlier, but sub rather than starter was a perfectly reasonable choice.
 
Totally agree, and I also agree with Garnacho's post match strop. Imagine being in such a shit team and having to watch your team doing feck-all against a terrible Spurs, and the manager sits there with his thumb up his ass for 70+ minutes. He knows had they won that, that Europe was beckoning, and so on. He was right to be pissed off.
And what did he do the few weeks before that? He was shit and Mount clearly had better form the weeks prior. Should he start because he was decent 2 month ago?

Also Garnacho is one of the main reasons why we are shit in the first place. He can't finish, he can't beat a man in a 1v1, he hardly can control a ball and more often than not makes the wrong decision and bad passes.
 
And as people have already said, Mount had done better than Garnacho in the games preceding the final - scoring more goals and making fewer errors. Garnacho could have made that final spot his own if he had performed in the run up, but he didn’t.

He definitely should have come on earlier, but sub rather than starter was a perfectly reasonable choice.
Agreed with that, in fact I was happy Mount started that game ahead of Garnacho. The issue was Amorim not changing things at half time like he should have done. In that respect Garnacho has a genuine grievance but it should never be played out in public. That sort of attitude I don't think can be easily changed and if it was up to me I'd drop him like a hot stone which it seems like we are trying to do.
 
Garnacho is amazing and he will put up Ronaldo numbers when he gets it together.

Please pay us
 
Agreed with that, in fact I was happy Mount started that game ahead of Garnacho. The issue was Amorim not changing things at half time like he should have done. In that respect Garnacho has a genuine grievance but it should never be played out in public. That sort of attitude I don't think can be easily changed and if it was up to me I'd drop him like a hot stone which it seems like we are trying to do.

Agreed, changes should have been made at half time. Generally I think Amorim’s in game management has been better than Ten Hag’s ever was but he wasn’t aggressive enough when it mattered in that game after conceding just before half time.

And yeah, I have no time for him. It’s been the same pattern of petulance and immaturity over an extended period and under different managers. Sure, he’s young, but we have other young players who behave far more professionally. To get better as a team we need to get rid of the individualistic mentality that Garnacho and others have displayed over the years.
 
And as people have already said, Mount had done better than Garnacho in the games preceding the final - scoring more goals and making fewer errors. Garnacho could have made that final spot his own if he had performed in the run up, but he didn’t.

He definitely should have come on earlier, but sub rather than starter was a perfectly reasonable choice.
That's not really true though. Mount had a crazy game off the bench against Bilbao but he didn't really do anything in any of the others, as usual. Even the Brentford game Mount scored in, Garnacho got a goal and assist. Garnacho also scored in the Newcastle game on a day where pretty much everyone was terrible.

He did enough to start that final, certainly ahead of Mount, though he obviously should've dealt with the fact he didn't much better than he did.
 
That's not really true though. Mount had a crazy game off the bench against Bilbao but he didn't really do anything in any of the others, as usual. Even the Brentford game Mount scored in, Garnacho got a goal and assist. Garnacho also scored in the Newcastle game on a day where pretty much everyone was terrible.

He did enough to start that final, certainly ahead of Mount, though he obviously should've dealt with the fact he didn't much better than he did.

But there was also games before hand where Garnacho either did nothing, or made errors that cost us a goal and a game (Chelsea). So you can make a reasonable argument for either, because neither were consistently stand out performers. And with Garnacho typically having a better impact off the bench against tiring legs, it was a perfectly reasonable decision to start Mount and have Garnacho ready to come on in a cup game that may have gone to extra time, even if that’s a decision you disagree with.

I know one thing though - if it had been the other way round Mount and his entourage wouldn’t have thrown a tantrum about it on social media, because whatever other flaws he has, he’s a professional.
 
The truth is that it wouldn't make a jot of difference if Garnacho had scored 50 goals this season and was dropped for Dong Fanzhuo.

That is the managers call to make. You can't go out and publicly disrespect the manager of Man Utd. Clearly something that Garnacho can't get through his skull.

The fact he had been bang average for most of the season and that Mount had done brilliantly in the last Semi Final match is even by the by.
 
Garnacho was fast tracked into a shite squad and became an automatic starter for the last 2 seasons. Rightly or wrongly he reacted badly to being replaced by Mount in the Final, who in comparison has done absolutely nothing in a United shirt. It really needs to be studied why so many managers are in love with Mason.

Most fans should be able to sympathise with Garnacho even if they still want him to leave in the summer.
Mount's flank was pretty much dead with him and Dorgu. That final would have looked much better for us with a wildcard like Garnacho. Not everyone dislike him here even though he has some vocal opposition. Mount did have a good game recently so it made some sense to play him, but he should have been subbed for being his crap version. Garnacho has heart and that's admirable no matter if he goes or stays and that's not something we have seen on so many of our players.
 
And what did he do the few weeks before that? He was shit and Mount clearly had better form the weeks prior. Should he start because he was decent 2 month ago?

Also Garnacho is one of the main reasons why we are shit in the first place. He can't finish, he can't beat a man in a 1v1, he hardly can control a ball and more often than not makes the wrong decision and bad passes.
How’d that plan work out for you? Already booked your hotel for the CL away fixtures, have you? :lol:
 
That's not really true though. Mount had a crazy game off the bench against Bilbao but he didn't really do anything in any of the others, as usual. Even the Brentford game Mount scored in, Garnacho got a goal and assist. Garnacho also scored in the Newcastle game on a day where pretty much everyone was terrible.

He did enough to start that final, certainly ahead of Mount, though he obviously should've dealt with the fact he didn't much better than he did.
This. Mount wasn't exactly in red hot form going into the final. He had a very good cameo vs Bilbao, then started the West Ham and Chelsea games and reverted back to being ineffective on the ball in the final third. After 2 seasons of contributing nothing to the club, it was infuriating to see Amorim trust him to start our biggest game in years and then stick with him until the 70th minute.
 
Mount's flank was pretty much dead with him and Dorgu. That final would have looked much better for us with a wildcard like Garnacho. Not everyone dislike him here even though he has some vocal opposition. Mount did have a good game recently so it made some sense to play him, but he should have been subbed for being his crap version. Garnacho has heart and that's admirable no matter if he goes or stays and that's not something we have seen on so many of our players.

Much better how? Garnacho had 20 minutes against a tired Porro and was still easily pocketed. Starting against a fresh Porro would have been even more one sided.

Heart is nice and all, but it doesn't make up for a lack of ability.
 
People have also forgotten all the other disciplinary issues he's had. He was fined multiple times under Ten Hag for being late to training, we've had prior social media posts and attitude issues.

Talent is a separate discussion but you can't keep players with that attitude in a team. A youngster should be giving it his all to establish himself, he's an entitled brat.

If we can't get a big fee send him out on loan and maybe he comes back humbled when others also refuse to stand for his attitude.

They're deliberately omitting all of his previous transgressions (of which there are many and under multiple managers) because it strengthens their position. It's as simple as that. Acting as if the Europa League final "incident" occurred within a vacuum or was a novel outburst is completely disingenuous.

More to the point, it's not as if Garnacho had been so undeniably amazing up until that match that it would have been criminal to exclude him. Nor can his attitude or behavior be overlooked due to his talent level (or in this case, lack thereof). Struts around the place as if he's the literal reincarnation of prime Cristiano Ronaldo himself, but he isn't half as good as he thinks he is. He can mimic Ronaldo and pull his shorts up to his nipples in frustration all day long; however, that doesn't change the fact that as of early May, he had the lowest shot-to-goal percentage in the entire Europa League. Let's talk about statistics, shall we?

Six Premier League goals and three assists. Half of those goals were against Leicester and Southampton who were both relegated. Statistically, he's one of the worst dribblers in the entire league as far as attacking players are concerned. Progressive passing? Not a chance. His abysmal conversion rate bleeds over into the Premier League as well. Now, we can sit here and discuss his potential until we're blue in the face, but that's neither here nor there. This is in reference to the "contentious" decision of starting Mount over him in the final. Based on form, it was hardly an egregious decision. Last I checked, Amorim didn't leave a high-flying, 20-year-old Wayne Rooney to rot on the bench, but some people are behaving as if he did.

With that said, I do agree that he should have been introduced earlier in the match.
 
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Much better how? Garnacho had 20 minutes against a tired Porro and was still easily pocketed. Starting against a fresh Porro would have been even more one sided.

Heart is nice and all, but it doesn't make up for a lack of ability.
Should have been subbed in at halftime or given more than 20 minutes, Mount just won't do much for us.
 
That's not really true though. Mount had a crazy game off the bench against Bilbao but he didn't really do anything in any of the others, as usual. Even the Brentford game Mount scored in, Garnacho got a goal and assist. Garnacho also scored in the Newcastle game on a day where pretty much everyone was terrible.

He did enough to start that final, certainly ahead of Mount, though he obviously should've dealt with the fact he didn't much better than he did.

In the Brentford game you refer to Garnacho was still poor, yes he scored from one of his beloved speculative shots, but Mount generated a higher xG, won more and lost fewer duels, passed more accurately, and was defensively more involved.

To be clear, I don't think either had a great game, but Garnacho has proven resoundingly this season that he can't handle Premier League defenders, he doesn't have the physical or technical tools to succeed.

In particular, given his ridiculous wastefulness, he had no business starting the final for us, given how important it is to be clinical in them. Besides, we know exactly what would have happened had he started, given that he came on with 20 minutes left against a tired Porro, and immediately slotted straight into his pocket.
 
Should have been subbed in at halftime or given more than 20 minutes, Mount just won't do much for us.

No he shouldn't, Porro had an easy time against him, he's just not good enough, which was resoundingly demonstrated by how easily Spurs dealt with him.

We'd have been better off bringing the likes of Mainoo or Eriksen on instead.
 
No he shouldn't, Porro had an easy time against him, he's just not good enough, which was resoundingly demonstrated by how easily Spurs dealt with him.

We'd have been better off bringing the likes of Mainoo or Eriksen on instead.
Garnacho has a very high and a very low and unlike an otherwise dead flank has some forward drive. What did Mount provide?
 
In the Brentford game you refer to Garnacho was still poor, yes he scored from one of his beloved speculative shots, but Mount generated a higher xG, won more and lost fewer duels, passed more accurately, and was defensively more involved.

To be clear, I don't think either had a great game, but Garnacho has proven resoundingly this season that he can't handle Premier League defenders, he doesn't have the physical or technical tools to succeed.

In particular, given his ridiculous wastefulness, he had no business starting the final for us, given how important it is to be clinical in them. Besides, we know exactly what would have happened had he started, given that he came on with 20 minutes left against a tired Porro, and immediately slotted straight into his pocket.
Garnacho certainly has limitations but I can't help thinking this narrative shift is a direct consequence of the fallout with Amorim. His pace alone makes him a bigger threat than Mason Mount has ever been. Mount had that one freak cameo against Bilbao but was his usual anonymous self in the final, offering nothing of substance. Garnacho wasn't worse off the bench than Mount was for the 70 minutes that preceded.
 
Garnacho certainly has limitations but I can't help thinking this narrative shift is a direct consequence of the fallout with Amorim. His pace alone makes him a bigger threat than Mason Mount has ever been. Mount had that one freak cameo against Bilbao but was his usual anonymous self in the final, offering nothing of substance. Garnacho wasn't worse off the bench than Mount was for the 70 minutes that preceded.

Narrative shift? I've been banging this drum for weeks, he simply isn't good enough. His pace isn't that great, certainly not against PL defenders, he's not quick enough to create separation against them, nor does he have the technical ability to do so. Porro had a such an easy time against him, and the rest of our team were avoiding passing to him when we were looking to get a cross in late on because they knew he'd just blast the ball into the crowd.

As for the fallout, his interview was silly but I understand him being frustrated, he's young, his ego has taken a knock, and we lost the final. For me it's entirely forgivable, it's the kind of thing an apology should have sorted.
 
Garnacho has a very high and a very low and unlike an otherwise dead flank has some forward drive. What did Mount provide?

This is just made up really. He's demonstrated the very low, but not the high, and the forward drive generally comes from Dorgu.

Mount was poor, I'm not denying that, but at least with him starting there was the possibility of a good game. Garnacho was guaranteed to be poor, as he always is, and as he was when he came on.

Mount should have been replaced by someone, anyone, else.
 
Narrative shift? I've been banging this drum for weeks, he simply isn't good enough. His pace isn't that great, certainly not against PL defenders, he's not quick enough to create separation against them, nor does he have the technical ability to do so. Porro had a such an easy time against him, and the rest of our team were avoiding passing to him when we were looking to get a cross in late on because they knew he'd just blast the ball into the crowd.

As for the fallout, his interview was silly but I understand him being frustrated, he's young, his ego has taken a knock, and we lost the final. For me it's entirely forgivable, it's the kind of thing an apology should have sorted.
Well if it isn't a narrative shift, it's just a bit daft. If you're saying Garnacho has proven he can't handle Premier League defenders, what makes Mount or Eriksen more suitable candidates to play against them?

Mount's best traits are off the ball ones (and even then, usually don't translate) and Eriksen is an old man now. Better passer, granted, but playing someone so athletically limited as a pseudo winger would've been crazy in a high stakes match against a Premier League team.
 
This is just made up really. He's demonstrated the very low, but not the high, and the forward drive generally comes from Dorgu.

Mount was poor, I'm not denying that, but at least with him starting there was the possibility of a good game. Garnacho was guaranteed to be poor, as he always is, and as he was when he came on.

Mount should have been replaced by someone, anyone, else.
Well Mount made sense with his in form Bilbao, but after 45-50minutes of nothing much should have been replaced, pretty much all agree. Dorgu didn't impress much either in that game sadly. I think Garnacho was pretty good vs Brentford and Lyon second leg. He has an unevenness to him, but he is also a wildcard. He's not as bad as you say.
 
Well if it isn't a narrative shift, it's just a bit daft. If you're saying Garnacho has proven he can't handle Premier League defenders, what makes Mount or Eriksen more suitable candidates to play against them?

Mount's best traits are off the ball ones (and even then, usually don't translate) and Eriksen is an old man now. Better passer, granted, but playing someone so athletically limited as a pseudo winger would've been crazy in a high stakes match against a Premier League team.

A bit daft? Garnacho is one of the most dispossessed players in the entire league, his dribbling success rate puts him well into the bottom 20%, he's a poor passer, a poor finisher, a poor crosser, about the only thing on the ball he excels at is carrying the ball into the penalty area, which he then invariably wastes. He's poor defensively too. Mount, while also poor on the ball, is significantly better on the defensive side of things and wins a much higher proportion of duels. He's a better shot too.

Personally I'd have preferred Amad as one of the 10s, but given he was our only fit RWB, I'd have put Bruno there rather than in midfield. But given the choice between Mount and Garnacho, I can easily understand why Mount started, at least if a chance fell to him there was the possibility he'd score it.

On top of that, the number 10 isn't meant to be a pseudo winger, especially given how deep Spurs were. We needed someone that could potentially unlock their defence, Eriksen's passing or Mainoo's skill would have been more likely to do that than Garnacho sitting in Porro's pocket.