"We've tried with proven managers and where did it get us" is the most ridiculous argument ever. So if you buy a high reputation player and he flops you just give up and buy a player from League 1 as replacement and give him time in case he becomes good. "We've tried with good players before and it didn't work".
Gary Neville Last Night
- Thread starter Inigo Montoya
- Start date
I watched every single one of those games and whilst there were slight differences in where Pogba played, Ole himself said he kept the same exact system. The main thing that changed in the rebound period was that players starting playing to their capacity again, it wasn't that Ole came in and made sweeping tactical changes. It was a huge mentality shift.
FYI we've never really pressed as a team because the team hasn't been coached to do so, there was a lot of noise about us pressing but the stats don't back it up. If you look at our games under Ole compared to Mou in those rebound periods, we actually covered less distance under Ole. You can say fitness was an issue but it proves we weren't really very different, despite all the talk to the contrary. I see nothing different now, even after a full pre season to suggest he has any idea how to actually implement the ideas he has - it's no different to me or you sitting in a conference and saying 'I am going to bring in x style of football', words alone are meaningless.
Imagine this.
We have an ex cardiff manager who had no connection to the club as the manager, and this is how We perform. What would Gary Neville say?
"It's a disgrace"
"He's out of his depth!"
"The manager must at least give the players a pattern to follow, there's no clear play style out there!"
"Embarassing"
We have an ex cardiff manager who had no connection to the club as the manager, and this is how We perform. What would Gary Neville say?
"It's a disgrace"
"He's out of his depth!"
"The manager must at least give the players a pattern to follow, there's no clear play style out there!"
"Embarassing"
He wouldn't, he would still plead for more time to be given.
Put the situation in at Salford though...
Are you making stuff up now? There were articles about how the number of sprints and fastbreaks went up significantly after Ole was appointed.
Exactly
You expect such arguments on the caf, but not from paid pundits. But then one should from Neville!
You think? If anything has been shown since SAF left is that when people think it can´t get any worse it usually does. We have now gone through 3 managers and are on they way with our fourth. I have no faith in our board and we will continue to suffer even if we get Pep calling the shots. Not saying Ole is the man but I have no faith it will change in the long run under another manager. But anyway Ole´s time is up, this form can´t be acceptable to anyone included in this shit show. But what manager would you go for?
They were not top class managers by the time we got them.
But then it goes to show he's a fan;prone to knee jerk and trenchant at the same time. He gets it wrong at times.Exactly
You expect such arguments on the caf, but not from paid pundits. But then one should from Neville!
Why would you expect such arguments on the forum?You're doing the Caf a disservice in assuming that there aren't people with valid,informed opinions. Posters who just maybe as academically qualified to make strong arguments. Not all football fans are thick...unless it's Chelsea
Yet the clamour for Jose was very loud.
Some good points made throughout this thread, I can kind of agree with both sides of the argument.
Personally I really wanted to back Ole due to the fact he's recognised character flaws within the squad and attempted to rectify it.
Is he being hamstrung by an inept CEO , due to the fact replacements haven't been brought in efficiently? Surely it was known which players were surplus to requirements, why weren't agreements made for replacements before releasing them?
If the above would of happened and quality replacements were secured, we wouldn't be now playing Mata, Matic, Lingaard, Young, Peirera , which brings me onto my next questions which kind of implicate Ole
Did Ole deem the ones I've just mentioned as having the quality to be competent?
Did he have a say in their contract extensions?
If yes to the above two then Oles as much to blame as Woodward in my eyes, it's clear Woodwards inept and can't secure multiple deals at the same time, he has to step aside from transfer dealings.
Ole has a huge question mark hanging over his judgement if he thinks Mata, Young, Matic, Lingaard and Peirera are United quality still or even would be good enough for this season.
Personally I really wanted to back Ole due to the fact he's recognised character flaws within the squad and attempted to rectify it.
Is he being hamstrung by an inept CEO , due to the fact replacements haven't been brought in efficiently? Surely it was known which players were surplus to requirements, why weren't agreements made for replacements before releasing them?
If the above would of happened and quality replacements were secured, we wouldn't be now playing Mata, Matic, Lingaard, Young, Peirera , which brings me onto my next questions which kind of implicate Ole
Did Ole deem the ones I've just mentioned as having the quality to be competent?
Did he have a say in their contract extensions?
If yes to the above two then Oles as much to blame as Woodward in my eyes, it's clear Woodwards inept and can't secure multiple deals at the same time, he has to step aside from transfer dealings.
Ole has a huge question mark hanging over his judgement if he thinks Mata, Young, Matic, Lingaard and Peirera are United quality still or even would be good enough for this season.
Maybe I'm a fool but I genuinely believe Gary at first tried to stick to what he knew in his job at Sky; criticising play he could see on the pitch and occasionally extrapolating to what he imagined the players were being told/the atmosphere in the dressing room based on the play. He rarely called managers out and went nowhere near the boardroom as he saw it outside his area of expertise.
Now it's clear you cannot properly appraise United's plight without mentioning every echelon of the club, including the board and the manager, Gary has changed his tune. This has angered some fans but I honestly feel he was late to the party, and arguably remains slow on the uptake, for the good reason that he doesn't feel qualified and comfortable enough to jump in on management and boardroom matters. Again I might be a fool on this matter
.That's because we are hiring wrong managers. Brighton hired Potter and they are already looking like a completely different team, why is that managers don't matter only at ManUtd? Maybe because we are hiring poor ones. Moyes wasn't good enough, Ole too, Van Gaal was past it and only good manager we hired was Jose and results under him was better than others. It's not surprising either, you hire good managers you will get good results. Timing to hire Jose was wrong though, we should have hired him instead of Moyes.
so, who is top class manager that we can get right now?
I don’t know how anyone can take a guy that thinks we should not go for a top manager “because we have tried that before”, seriously.
Given I said distance covered, I'm not sure how I'm making things up... As I said we ran a lot but none of it was pressing as a team - it's like when Rashford pulled his groin the other day chasing a lost cause at break neck speed, is that pressing? It certainly isn't but it'll ramp up your stats no end. Unless you think our players magically knew how to press despite never being coached to do so when Ole came in?
My original point was I doubt you would find a single United fan who thinks Ole is the right guy to get us back to challenging for the title, he might be well suited to this transitional phase or simply a good choice because no one else wants the job but long term, but do you truly believe there's no one who couldn't do a better job?
Your argument was that nothing changed between Jose and Ole in terms of tactics and the stats I posted debunks that. You can argue semantics about distance covered being the same despite number of sprints increasing but in the end the increase in fast break goals correlates well with the number of sprints and that's a definite change in the way they played. Lingard and Herrera were instrumental in the fast break game developing because they are capable of winning the ball in the opposition half.
I don't particularly think Ole is the solution but calling him the only problem ignores the fact that he is working with the least amount of talent any United manager has had to work with and the results weren't as disastrous when the team had some semblance of a first choice X1 healthy and available.
This has been dealt with time and time and time again. Cut it out.
Oh.. no you dont. It's edward woodward fault?Point out where I have done this? If you can't, stop chatting s**t!
No we definitely need about 6. We need a striker and a right winger. And an entire midfield 3. That's 5. Shaw just hasn't delivered for one reason or another so we really need a left back too. So 6.
I agree that 3 would make us far better though, but not complete. If only 3 I would sign a striker, RW and ACM. Werner, Sancho and Fernandes will do.
But no, things are dire - 3 won't be enough. The squad is diabolical.
They never hit this low. How deluded can you be. Good manager does have their influence. United is just shit.
They got us as far as they could, plus by the time club hired them, they weren't 'top class'
Someone shut Gary up. Sick of him.
Yes. He is in charge of the football division and he has failed for the past 7 years. The ultimate responsibility lies with him.
Deluded? What are you on about?
You say I'm deluded, how deluded are you? You fail to see the person recruiting these managers?!
A top coach can only take you so far. Look at Pep and Klopp. They needed to bring in the players for them to perform. Their boards backed them.
Our board? They bring in managers who have past it or bring in a rookie. So what were you expecting?
You could argue that the game passed LvG by, but Mourinho won the league two years before going to Old Trafford. It's a ridiculous suggestion regarding him. What I'm guessing you literally mean is that he doesn't play the type of football that is in vogue now, therefore he's past it.
False. I never shouted give him a job after PSG game but thats because i wanted us for once to stick to reported plan. Interim manager till end of season, buying time for a DoF and then make a decision. I wasnt a only one, you can check posts in threads about it.
Bet you're not blaming Mourinho last 2 years.
I fully agree but hindsight won't help us now.
Our managers weren't good enough. Clearly. I was never in favour of any of the managers that we recruited. My comments on the CAF are open to be proven wrong.
I'll reiterate, Ole and majority of the current players are not good enough. They have all had enough time to prove themselves and failed. So has Ed. He has failed. If Apple or Amazon are not performing, who's responsibility is it?
We are no different. Manchester United is failing. The recent Tifo video shows that we are starting to regress of the field too. Ed is the main man at United, he has to take the blame.
Ed took over the Champions of England, authorised a spend of about a Billion £'s and today, we are 2 points above relegation. Can't make it any simpler than that.
It was but Mourinho was on the edge of becoming shite when we had him so it's forgivable.
fecking hell, this level of devotion. If only our players and managers had same level, we would have won few more trophies.Yeah, it won't. That was to highlight how we are getting the timing wrong or hiring wrong managers.
I'd be happy with any competent manager right now, there is no need for always looking at a "top class" manager or a "title winning" manager.
So am I.He’s so fecking annoying.
I don't think the fact we sprinted more is a real change in tactics, if you could point to evidence of organised pressing I'd be inclined to agree with you but there wasn't any. Your stat simply proves the players sprinted more which is probably a common effect of a caretaker coming in like when you see teams go on relegation avoiding runs for example. Players get a bit of a rocket up their arses.
I don't think Ole is the only problem but he is a big one in my mind, purely because he is unqualified. Redknapp was right.
Yeah I’m getting tired of all these ex players chatting each other up
They needed players to get the results. They didn't need players to be able to see their desired playstyle.
Yep. I was already raising concerns when he just got the job.
I've had the same standards since Moyes. I want an attacking playstyle. It can be Pep's style or Klopp's. I want to see traits that resemble that manner of football. More than results, that is important for me. If you can't show that, you're not cut out for the job and it's likely results won't follow.
I don’t know, I get you’re point the root of all our problems is at board level but we shouldn’t be this bad on the field.
This run goes all the way back to March and it’s getting worse by the week to the point of us struggling at home to Rochdale and Astana, we’re showing absolutely nothing on the field.
I knew this season would be tough, I wasn’t expecting much at all but to be this bad so early to the point of fans talking about a relegation battle? come off it, it’s not good enough.
Not me. I don't need people to tell me what I should think of the situation. The trial should've been the end of the season, always .
Apparently, our genius CEO didn't think so, he bought the hype and acted like any average caf poster would. With someone like him in charge, we're bound to fail
We can all agree on that for sure, but we are where we are and the board not only hires the managers it also seems to have a say in the players we acquire. Replacing Ole with someone else won´t help at all.
The structure and backroom staff to handle the constant cutting and changing isn´t there. But Ole will get the boot that much we all know.
That has little to do with Ole really, name me one manager who has come in since Fergie left who made us play decent enough football? Things got so bad under Mourinho people were asking for LVG to come back!
This goes way further back than Ole to be fair. Getting Ole to finish the season and hiring Ole permanently are two totally different things. But I like many felt he should get the job due to his unbelievable run after his appointment. But if the club had any ideas how to move forward that wouldn´t have been the case at all, as they would have worked on getting the best man out there to come in.