Using Scholes in an example as to why comparing players to their ability for getting into their national team isn't suggesting hes anywhere close to Scholes' talent. I don't disagree with you main point however, Herrera was a fine player for us, on his day he was similar to a Fletcher or Park for me.
Gary Neville on United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
But you are the one assessing his level relative to midfielders in the latest callup. If you go back 6 years then you go back to Spain's midfield being insanely good. If you use a single callup you have to bear in mind the manager may well want to test midfielders for the future.
Ander was unfortunate that the generation he could have played with were far too good. Add to that the fact he played abroad, and not regularly. I agree he wasn't World Class but "couldn't get into Spain NT" is the wrong stick to beat him with.
He would be bloody useful to us and would start in this side. He moved on and so should we. We could and should have replaced him. There's the mistake.
The problem isn't how good/bad Herrera or Fellaini were. It's that they weren't replaced at all and the midfield doesn't have enough strength in depth to cope with a couple of injuries. .
This is my problem with Neville in general. He has a tendency towards making these sort of disingenuous claims to suit the narrative he's pushing.
The transfer window, of course, wasn't that bad but I can't see how the lack of at least one midfield signing isn't going to come back and bite the club in the ass.
I never said Neville was completely correct in his assessment. He is a hypocrite. Last season he questioned the board of not letting Jose have his players and now he is saying even he would have blocked Boateng's move. There is no way the board should be defended and no matter how we do this season it should never be forgotten that the board did not back Ole.
Again if you look at my posts I clearly said that was not the only reason why I don't rate Herrera to the level some do. But i do think that is one factor that should be looked upon. It's not like he had a rift with Spanish FA or he had a rift with the coach. The point is not many rate him like our fans have rated to the point we were overrating his importance. And this where I agreed with Neville's assessment on Herrera
And regarding your last para, I absolutely agree. No point acting as if we have lost someone irreplaceable. He should have been easily replaced by a better quality. Not replacing herrera was a joke.
I think he's being misquoted. At the time his point was if you're not going to back him then you should get rid and considering the importance that Jose had placed on getting in a CB I think it's fair to say the board didn't back him or his vision.
They brought in 3 of his 4 preferred targets, set a world record fee for his #1 CB target and got rid of the clubs 2nd biggest purchase of all time because he didn't fit Ole's needs. They backed him quite strongly.
I disagree with that assessment. We have lost Lukaku and Herrera and have not replaced him. They have backed him but only to a certain extent. If you want to know what actual backing someone means then look at what City board did in summer of 2017. That is called backing. The fact that we still have most of the deadwood means Ole knew he would only be allowed to sign 2 or 3 players. We needed more, Ole needed more but he did not get.
Herrera is the one we didn't replace. Ole's preferred replacement was Longstaff who Newcastle slapped a 50m valuation on. The board not being willing to meet the valuation isn't unreasonable.
The club made a bid for Dembele, but Lyon didn't want to sell him. Aside from him there was no concrete interest in any replacement strikers.
If the standard by which we judge whether a manager is backed or not is City in 2017 then no other manager has ever properly been backed. No, Ole didn't get everything he wanted. That's part of the job. He did get the CB, RB, and RW he wanted, and was also allowed to sell an ST he didn't particularly care for. If they don't back him with funds in the next few windows then I'll agree with you, but this summer Ole was certainly backed, albeit not with the blank check Pep got after his first season at City.
The fact is - he might have a point for the wrong reasons. Liverpool is behind City and they are imo not likely to beat City this season, and if that doesn't happen they might have 1-2 more chances before they have to start thinking about breaking up the fabulous team they have now. At the end of this season Salah is 28, Firmino close to 29, Mane 28, van Dijk 29, Wijnaldum Close to 30, Henderson 30
Just seen his comments with McKola, jesus christ some of the overreaction towards Neville is melodramatic. Apart from the cyclical bullshit, he seems to trying his best to remain calm and pragmatic. I don't agree with everything he said but I can't fault his pragmatism regarding Woody and the Glazers.
Don't understand the jump that Gary has made from what he said in May to how he is talking now. He said he didn't like that group of players and it was an average team for what United needs to be. Now all of a sudden, it's not as bad as we think and we're not as far away as we think. Not exactly been a mass exodus of players and only 3 players have come in 
Team as close to it's peak as it could be. They aren't going to win it this season, we all can see that. Depends on the rebuilding job Klopp can do
I don't disagree with the overall point you are making, just disagree on the Spain aspect.
It's all relative, don't think fans are overrating Herrera the player, they just rate the importance of what he brought to the table. No Spain fan would make such a kerfuffle about him getting caps, it's not an issue of quality but options.
If you ask me, it made more sense to raise his wages than be landed with the problem and fees associated with replacing him. He also had the bonus that his commitment and dedication was proven, while with new signings that's always uncertain.
Makes him irreplaceable? Absolutely not. But we didn't, it's criminal, and many could see that coming a mile away so have been moaning about it for months.
I think someone is eyeing a job with United.Don't understand the jump that Gary has made from what he said in May to how he is talking now. He said he didn't like that group of players and it was an average team for what United needs to be. Now all of a sudden, it's not as bad as we think and we're not as far away as we think. Not exactly been a mass exodus of players and only 3 players have come in
In the case of Laporte, it's a snub much longer than 2 years and he has clearly been among the best french CBs in the past few years. Managers can make decisions like that. Maybe Herrera isn't seen as the type of footballer they wanna see play for their team, it doesn't mean he hasn't had a decent career at United. There have always been good to great spanish midfielders since mid 2000s playing for Spain. I'll personally not use that as a way to criticize him.
I think Neville is underrating both himself and hererra in that part. I think Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Matic and Fred do a pretty good job of illustrating how easy it is to get a midfielder as good as Hererra. Shit we had years of Liam Millers, Klebersons, Alan Smiths and O'Sheas. Our midfield hasn't exclusively consisted of Scholes, Keanes and Robsons.
Neville was better than 90% of the rb's out there and harder working than any of them. There were some more talented but they wouldn't have been as driven for the decade or so he was playing every week. He was the best rb in the world for us. Hes better than Hererra though.
Neville was better than 90% of the rb's out there and harder working than any of them. There were some more talented but they wouldn't have been as driven for the decade or so he was playing every week. He was the best rb in the world for us. Hes better than Hererra though.
Gary is far more patient than anyone, does he want us to go 3 decades without a title like Liverpool? Seems way to relaxed about the situation, the more we "chill" the further behind and more difficult it will get. One minute he's ripping the club's board the next minute he's not bothered. Which one is it Gary? We are the Barca/Real of England by stature, they would NOT tolerate 6 years of garbage so why should Man United!?
Gsr
I bet if you had a pint with him he would have a similar view like most Utd fans.
Gary Neville contradicts himself like no other on TV.
I bet if you had a pint with him he would have a similar view like most Utd fans.
Gary Neville is arguably the best RB in PL history. Herrera is going to be forgotten within two years of retiring.
He has this air of arrogance about British players and commitment. As if we had to buy British players to get committed players who want to be at United. Just down the road at City, they have a bunch of foreigners who seem to be just as committed as any British player would be.
It's funny how this place couldn't shut up about us getting rid of the likes of Fellaini and Lukaku yet somehow they've become losses rather than players we needed ridding of.
Like Neville said, the likes of those 3 aren't losses. Beside Hererra who himself wasn't lighting the world on fire the rest were surplus to requirements rather than losses. Lukaku couldn't be played in Ole's new system is trying to implement and Fellaini was always universally deemed mediocre. And as for Hererra himself we should be able to produce a player of his caliber, he wasn't necessarily anything special.
What we did is get rid of surplus players(Lukaku, Fellaini) and recruiting the right way now(Maguire, Wan Bissaka and James).
Our squad still requires major reinforcement especially after how we finished the season. I do understand that we have signed two defenders but we require more reinforcement. I am hopeful the likes of greenwood, James,Gomes, Garner fulfill their potential so that we don't need to make much addition to the squad. If not, we are looking to sign a RW, a Cm maybe 2 if pogba leaves, a striker if rashford and Martial are not able to breakthrough and maybe another defender.
Dude we didn't lose Lukaku, how many time does this need to be mentioned. We NEEDED to get rid of Lukaku because he didn't fit Ole's plan. By selling Lukaku the board has actually backed Ole.
As for Hererra, Gary is also right about him. He wasn't anything special and player of his level should normally be able to replaced even from within aka even McTominay should be expected to improve enough to be his replacement.
Saying we lost the likes of Fellaini or Lukaku is absurd. We got RID of them. Ole had already planned to have Martial and Rashford lead his strike force so I don't understand this constant need to bring or invent this imaginary issue(striker issue) that's not there. Ole wanted it this way so be it.
Not disputing that but our squad is thin. One injury to either Martial or Rashford or Pogba we are fecked. Also, we lack quality in midfield and RW(James/Greenwood are still Raw). If this squad does well that would be because of Ole and the staff and not because of the board. Spending on a CB and RB was long due so it's not like that have done some massive job in fixing that. We should really hope our younger players fulfill the potential and none of our important players suffer any serious injury.
There is too much obsession here with 'replacing' Herrera i.e just making up the numbers, because he was never that important quality wise, his attitude was what stood out compared to others in the squad.
The focus should be on improving on Herrera by buying a ready made starter like we have done with Wan Bissaka and Maguire. This was unlikely to be done this summer so we wait rather than buying a 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice, the kind that have got us in this mess. (Don't throw 'Bruno Fernandes' at me, i notice still no one else has bought him.)
Everyone wants to catch Liverpool and City but forget how they've gone about things in the last few years. Liverpool didn't panic buy another centre back when they couldn't get Van Dijk, they waited for their number one choice.
The focus should be on improving on Herrera by buying a ready made starter like we have done with Wan Bissaka and Maguire. This was unlikely to be done this summer so we wait rather than buying a 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice, the kind that have got us in this mess. (Don't throw 'Bruno Fernandes' at me, i notice still no one else has bought him.)
Everyone wants to catch Liverpool and City but forget how they've gone about things in the last few years. Liverpool didn't panic buy another centre back when they couldn't get Van Dijk, they waited for their number one choice.
Not aquiring a new midfield player is the only issue I see with this transfer window given Ole himself wanted another one. But for the rest things have gone according to how Ole wanted them thus I'd say he's been backed by the board in those areas.
From the beginning Ole always wanted to have Rashford(and recently Martial) to be his main guys leading the line. He deemed Lukaku a surplus(which he himself realised) therefore we had to get rid of him. Now here that's where people fail to grasp what's going on. Us not bringing in a new striker isn't because the board failed to purchased a new one but it's because that's what Ole wanted hence 0 noises of us being linked with a new striker. Like mentioned earlier, Ole had always intended to have Rashford and Martial be his main guys and also wanted a path for Greenwood in the first team because he deemed him that good.
Defense we've sorted out our biggest issues which were a RB and CB to finally form a stable pairing. In attack we've brought in James, a player Ole himself sought.
So overall it's a pretty decent window if only people looked at it in context and for what it it. If you looked at it from Ole's point of which which is what should matter than he'd acquired 3 of his 4 main target which I'd say isn't a disaster like people make it sound.
Let’s have it right, you don’t play 600 games for United if you’re not a top player. He was probably the best right back in England for a good 10 years too.
Exactly this.
Years of getting who was instantly available, or players who "Might" be good has set us back years.
We need to do what we did this summer, big money on the right player - Maguire/Wan Bissaka, or sensible well thought out punts like James.
Get back to a position where you can see the progress as it happens, and limit big spending to the odd player or 2, not a string of short termers.
I think we're getting it slowly but surely.
I subscribe to Fulltime Devils and The United stand, Adam from FT Devils I always considered to have a sensible view to the rest but during the transfer window both channels were clickbaiting as they are now competing and I find Adam trying to course controversy for views. My point being I can't take him seriously anymore....
How you've lasted 500+ posts on here I do not know.
You'll probably have 500 notifications from people saying
WRONG
WRONG
UTTERLY WRONG.
There's opinions and debates, but yours is so wrong it's outrageous.
Yes it is not a disaster but you have to realise we still have a lot of deadwood. That is why I said one injury here and there we may be truly fecked. Also, just because Ole is not moaning doesn't mean Ole is completely satisfied. He must have expected more activities and that is why he said after the Everton game in April that we would not see many players from the current squad next season.
Was the transfer window a complete disaster? NO
Should we have sold some of the deadwood? Yes
Should have got more quality in midfield and even RW? Yes
Now that does not mean I am writing this season off. Trust me I seriously hope we see the likes of Greenwood, James, Gomes flourish and become regulars. But i am just look at other possibility too and that worries me.
Just wow from G Nev there.
Really gone hard on O Kane!
I agree that Herrera is nothing special. Very overrated here. That said, he's still better than Matic, Fred and Pereira and should have been replaced.
I much prefer the manager choosing exactly who he wants and the club paying what it takes to get those players than a DOF moving through a list of weaker and weaker alternatives that fit a similar "profile". AWB and Maguire already look like bargains. The haggling didn't do anyone an ounce of harm.
Classless my Neville. Think he's scared to risk his hotel football profits by speaking out against the Glazer's.
His exchange on Sky with Adam Mckola was very telling.
I always feel that G Nev should either cut out the trying to be neutral stuff on sky, as after all the likes of Carragher et al don't try and be, or cut down these little outburst.
Go all in, or keep the middle ground across the board.
Go all in, or keep the middle ground across the board.
True, but Klopp's eye for a transfer has been pretty much ideal for them so far so I have no doubt at ALL that replacing Wijnaldum, Henderson will be a piece of piss......VVD a nightmare of course, but I dont think they'd struggle massively replacing the front three over time, either. Big IF though, as Klopp might not even be there!
I suspect Neville has his reasons too, and they aren't strictly United-based....
I wish Neville would knock down that toilet block of a hotel.
Really. That'll be me out then.