Dunno how people think he doesn't actually want us to do well. Yes he overcompensates on comms but you can also hear him going fecking mental in the background when we score important goals (Maguire at Anfield) which I'm sure pisses oppo fans off too.
Gary Neville - Pundit
- Thread starter Jamie Shawcross
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Because while he celebrates like a mad man, he also talks out of his rear on many occasions. He doesn't give United fair treatment. Every foul has to be an assault or it's "he's got to be stronger there". Penalties have to be life threatening situations or it's "oh he's got the ball". If one of ours farts in the direction of the opponent in the build up to a goal "oh it's got to get chalked off". He errs far too much on the side of trying not to be biased to the point where it's too far the other way.
Yup. There’s zero chance he drones on about a foul in the build up if roles are reversed. Just like if it had been a clear as day penalty on a Brighton player instead, he’d be harping on.
Neville wanting us to do well doesn’t mean he can’t also be poor at being objective. He also has a huge problem with admitting he was wrong. Whatever he says initially is doubled down on even when it’s clearly not correct.
I completely get that but surely his instinctive reaction (screaming in the background whilst on comms is prob a bit unprofessional) shows he does actually want us to win? He just overcompensates when he's more calm.
Deep down I'm sure he does want us to win. But I, like others, can't understand his approach to remain unbias. There's nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade, if it's a penalty/foul/etc then it is what it is. There's no need for some of the nonsense he spouts, he can just be truthful. Case in point the lie he made up about Bruno - why would someone who wanted us to do well be coming out with a lie like that? And yet to apologise by the way. The things he says contributes to a toxic atmosphere at the club and he has a much bigger profile than the likes of Goldbridge who gets far more stick.
I think that's basically it. He's obviously a huge Manchester United supporter, and is just painfully aware that it shouldn't come across on commentary.
Still annoying to listen to though. If I was watching a neutral game, I also wouldn't want the commentator to go on and on about one minor foul not given, while he was ignoring a much worse penalty decision.
I don´t think you can definitively say it was a foul.
The rules allow for some contact as long as it does not impede progress. Taylor obviously felt that Shaw´s grab was only incidental and that the Brighton player could have carried on running, which he could have done as Shaw had already let go of his shirt by the time he theatrically fell down. Going to ground in that manner is simulation.
In the context of the game, Taylor had been consistent about letting the game flow and not awarding soft free kicks. It was not a clear cut decision for me.
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It was a foul.
It may not be written in the laws of the game, but every ref gives a shirt pull. Did Taylor see it? I suspect VAR did not have him take a look as they dont want another incident like the foul that chalked off the Fulham goal v Chelsea.
The shirt pull on Amad for the late pen v Burnley. He was never going to get the ball, regardless of the shirt pull, but the ref gave it the pen. I didnt hear any complaints there. The consensus seems to be that if a player grabs a shirt, then the foul will be given.
Refs being subjective about how they manage a game is a problem.
If a player feels their shirt is being pulled, they often stop - rightly or wrongly. How are they expected to understand the context of the game in that split second? The context that the ref has decided himself to apply.
Taylor had a shocker.
rather he uswd his viable public persona on social issues only
his football analysis is awful shite
ooooooh
feck off gary
ledge
his football analysis is awful shite
ooooooh
feck off gary
ledge
It could easily have been given as a foul, but let's not pretend all shirt pulls are given as fouls. In fact, most are not. Shirts get pulled tons of times every match and generally you'll only get pulled up on it if it's egregious and obvious.
I think the biggest factor in them not being given, is the ref not seeing them.
I wont bother posting the image, as i believe that imgur is now blocked in the UK, but you watch the highlights, you can see that Taylor's view is blocked by another Brighton player.
I agree with you in some ways, but he has to know that the cesspool of negativity that constantly surrounds the club isn't helpful and he never backs out of an opportunity to compound it. Even at the weekend, 4-2 win, 3rd win in a row - time to bring some positivity? No. Let's attack our striker who is barely here a wet week, already has 2 goals, got an assist in that very game and generally played quite well. It's just weird.
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I don't think he likes Amorim at all, probably because he sees this formation as being anti-United. But it's ridiculous to suggest that he doesn't want us to do well.
I think it's equally ridiculous to suggest he doesn't like "Amorim at all".
Of all the pundits we hear on Sky, BBC etc, i think Neville has been one that hasn't piled on Amorim because of the system.
He has said that we dont be the players to play it, especially in midfield, but hasnt that same observation been made a million times on The Caf? Find me anyone who was saying Bruno and Casemiro were a good fit in the double pivot three weeks ago?
but he didn't trip him - or try to
He's a fecking snake.
The story Scholes and Butt just told on their podcast about him not putting his money in the pot shows he's always been out for himself.
What's that ?
The Sesko thing, pretty much the entire Cafe has been calling for him to be more involved in the game and to be looked for more often by his teammates.
Sesko also completed 46% of his passes during the game, 6/13. Had a good game in other ways but his link up and use of the ball was not great other than the assist.
People calling it an "attack" for saying that he would like him to be more connected to his attacking partners seems far more dramatic than Neville was.
Sesko also completed 46% of his passes during the game, 6/13. Had a good game in other ways but his link up and use of the ball was not great other than the assist.
People calling it an "attack" for saying that he would like him to be more connected to his attacking partners seems far more dramatic than Neville was.
This is all falls under Law 12, specifically impeding the progress of the opponent, which is presumably what Shaw was in danger of doing.
For what it´s worth, Taylor´s view of the incident was unencumbered and he clearly decided, in real time, that no foul had been committed.
Shirt tugs as a general rule have to be sustained to be adjudged illegal; if they aren´t, they are generally not punished and seen as an acceptable degree of contact. You can see the difference with the Amad one by the way in which Amad was being yanked back from the penalty area, with a significant amount of force being exerted on his shirt to that end. Shaw´s pull on Rutter´s shirt does not have that level of impact.
Taylor must have felt that the hold on Rutter´s shirt was not sustained enough to constitute a foul; and he´s well with in his rights, by the laws of the game, to make that call.
As far as VAR goes, it could not have been a clear and obvious error with that degree of contact. Yes, Shaw held his shirt, but it was Rutter who tried to stop the game after Shaw had let go.
I´ve been critical of Anthony Taylor in the past but I actually felt that his officiating in this game was very good and that this decision was the right one.
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Under Law 12, Shaw
- holds an opponent
- impedes an opponent with contact
And are we sure his view was unencumbered ? ......
I mean, just look at the reply and the way Shaw jogs off after the shirt pull. You can tell that he is expecting the foul to be given.
How you can even think this isnt a foul, under that same law 12 that you just sighted, is beyond me.....
Even former refs agree...
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Yeah, I agree. I think some people just want to take their frustration out. He's not the perfect pundit, but relatively speaking compared to his peers he's alright. He clearly loves the club, many former players have said that he's a natural whinger so its just his personality. Keane is equally as negative about us as well. I do think in general the United pundits can go into a bit of a doom spiral when we are as bad as we are, especially for large parts under Amorim when everything has been dreadful. But I don't think fans can question their love for club.
Under Law 12, Shaw
In which law does it say that "Shirt tugs as a general rule have to be sustained to be adjudged illegal" ?
- holds an opponent
- impedes an opponent with contact
And are we sure his view was unencumbered ? ......
I mean, just look at the reply and the way Shaw jogs off after the shirt pull. You can tell that he is expecting the foul to be given.
How you can even think this isnt a foul, under that same law 12 that you just sighted, is beyond me.....
Even former refs agree...
To be fair he let a lot of fouls slip.
Under Law 12, Shaw
In which law does it say that "Shirt tugs as a general rule have to be sustained to be adjudged illegal" ?
- holds an opponent
- impedes an opponent with contact
And are we sure his view was unencumbered ? ......
I mean, just look at the reply and the way Shaw jogs off after the shirt pull. You can tell that he is expecting the foul to be given.
How you can even think this isnt a foul, under that same law 12 that you just sighted, is beyond me.....
Even former refs agree...
This was a hard one on Brighton. However, with no bias intended, I considered the foul on Amad in the first half to be a blatant penalty which wasn’t even looked at. The defender did not “get” the ball, it was an inconsequential hair width of a deflection. Amad was totally in control of the ball at the time he was taken out.
Feel both decisions may have had very different officiating if it was a game of bigger magnitude. Specific to us, these are the sort of things which are the margins which have decided most of our games under Amorim and usually haven’t gone our way.
I’m happy to take the luck but almost five years on, VAR in general could not have had a worse impact on the game if it tried. There has been no decrease in the number of questionable decisions (may have actually increased), the amount of flimsy handball penalties has become an epidemic to the game and most of all, any goal can be ruled out in 50 different ways meaning the biggest joy of the game creates a moment of anxiety rather than pure happiness. I know there are advocates of the system and there are merits to it, but every once in a while you have a Carabao Cup game or something which doesn’t have VAR, which provides a sort of freedom and relief which shouldn’t be something we don’t have otherwise. TLDR: F*ck VAR
About royalty cheques for a commercial bonus being low, so everyone in the dressing room put them in a pot. Cantona won and gave the pot to Scholes and Butt, for having the balls to gamble an amount that meant more to them. Neville declined to put his in.What's that ?
Neville is very clever talking about football imo. If you are constantly asked your opinion, it is hard to always give a thoughtful answer and people will disagree imo.
I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were speaking about De Cuyper’s foul on Amad during the Brighton game.
He’s once again gone in on Sesko. We’re FIVE starts in to his United career and Neville has dug him out big time twice.
I feel like it’s again Neville trying to prove how unbiased he is. He’s bringing up the level of scrutiny on Sesko before he’s even had time to get started, so that he doesn’t look biased for questioning Wirtz at Liverpool, when he eventually does. Wirtz who began the season starting for Liverpool, doing nothing but negativity impacting the performance of what was a winning team.Then really having to be dropped so that the team can win games.
Sesko didn’t start any of the first three games, and has come out for Mount a couple of times in bigger games…is part of a team that is improving from its lowest ebb. Scored two in two and registered an excellent assist two games ago.
He’s just a self-serving, self-important, ego-maniac. Horrible.
I feel like it’s again Neville trying to prove how unbiased he is. He’s bringing up the level of scrutiny on Sesko before he’s even had time to get started, so that he doesn’t look biased for questioning Wirtz at Liverpool, when he eventually does. Wirtz who began the season starting for Liverpool, doing nothing but negativity impacting the performance of what was a winning team.Then really having to be dropped so that the team can win games.
Sesko didn’t start any of the first three games, and has come out for Mount a couple of times in bigger games…is part of a team that is improving from its lowest ebb. Scored two in two and registered an excellent assist two games ago.
He’s just a self-serving, self-important, ego-maniac. Horrible.
I think it has more to do with the era he was in the team and how ruthless they all were - You can even see it in how he describes his own talent and career.
Man comes across like a borderline sociopath specifically when talking about footballers, how they should act, perform and deal with pressure.
Many examples with Bruno, the bottle job comment for Chelsea, etc.
Whilst the 90's/00's were hugely successful, I am not sure how healthy the environment was in hindsight- With characters like Keane, Schmeichel, Neville all in the same dressing room.
Ultimately, he has not adapted to the times and has carried over the same mentality discussing modern players in a team that is now where near as successful.
Man comes across like a borderline sociopath specifically when talking about footballers, how they should act, perform and deal with pressure.
Many examples with Bruno, the bottle job comment for Chelsea, etc.
Whilst the 90's/00's were hugely successful, I am not sure how healthy the environment was in hindsight- With characters like Keane, Schmeichel, Neville all in the same dressing room.
Ultimately, he has not adapted to the times and has carried over the same mentality discussing modern players in a team that is now where near as successful.
You mean when he fishes for compliments?
Can't stand him as pundit, his agenda du jour against Sesko is ridiculous
The language's gone
C'est vrai.
Yup.
My new theory about Neville is that since he doesn't have Keane and Fergie to protect him against the big bad world out there, he will turn on his own rather than risk being attacked by oppo fans and pundits. He knows that most United fans have good memories of him as a player and won't call him out too much. A slimy coward if I saw one.
What has Neville said exactly that got you so animated?
He said......
Where is the lie?
Sesko has had some moments and he is settling in still - the time to adapt is clearly going to be longer than Cunha and Mbeumo's, but he doesn't look anything like a 75mil player at this point.
You really think anything Neville says is really that cutting? He is talking about Sesko's play, which has been pretty average so far or such a big money player. He hasn't made a real impact and looks off the pace.
What does "adapting to the times" mean ? You think Neville, or any other pundit, should be saying warm and fuzzy things about every team and player, for fear of getting an email from HR?
Neville is paid to speak his mind and say what he see's, not to make United players feel better.
Neville is right, the jury is still out on Sesko.
We’d all like that young players like Sesko don’t get highlighted after a performance like at Forest as it can negatively harm their ability to hit their potential. But we have to counteract that with the fact that we are the biggest club in the land, and our big money striker is always going to have eyes on him. And he was the odd one out in our performance at the weekend. There’s no point in being frustrated at Neville, whoever was doing the job, would have a PoV on Sesko and it’s unlikely to be very different from Neville’s. We just need more from Sesko, even if not in goals, but at least in terms of a better first touch.
Well said. The United number 9 is always going to have focus on him. I
I Sesko has anything about him, which im sure he does, he will pick up his form. It is not for pundits to sugar coat their opinions. Not that i think what Neville said was particularly harsh.
He doesn’t act like a United fan. I’ve always got the sense from him and scholes that they low key enjoy the teams struggles since they’ve left because it reinforces how great of a team they were. Neville takes any opportunity to stick the knife in with United yet. He has twice now gone for Sesko, despite the lad actually doing ok so far. Why doesn’t he talk about it Isak or Writz, who cost almost 300m between them and have looked piss poor so far?
Apart from nitpicking United -- and to be fair, he's had a lot of nits to pick over the last decade -- Gary Neville is just boring. No real insight, nothing. His weird show at a home bar or whatever is it is a waste of time. Scholes and Keane have something to say and aren't afraid to say it.
Yes…all of that.