Are you saying we haven't abandoned all that yet? If not then why are we so shit?
Gary Neville - Pundit
- Thread starter Jamie Shawcross
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to discuss disappointed FA Cup exit at the hands of Brighton - confirming our shortest season in over 100 years. They also discuss the news that Michael Carrick is set to be United's manager until the end of the season.
I'm a millennial United fan. I pretty much grew up watching just as the Class of 92 were breaking into the team and they're a big part of why I started supporting the club.
But I am sick and tired of the whole of them. They've all been disappointing rent-a-quotes, placing unnecessary pressure on the United managers and players who are trying to represent the club. Special shout out to Paul Scholes, the biggest disappointment of all. As a player, Paul Scholes didn't want anything to do with the media, now he's going on podcasts talking about how United managers don't "look like United managers."
They bang on about the "United way" but is it the "United way" to be feeding the media frenzy shitting on the club with quote after quote of unnecessary criticism?
I accept that most of us are frustrated at how the club is doing but have a moan in private for feck's sake. You lot going on podcasts talking about the club in a negative way just creates too much unnecessary pressure on the players and managers. It's bad enough rest of the world are hyper critical on everything the club does but it hurts a lot more when it's your own twisting the knife in.
But I am sick and tired of the whole of them. They've all been disappointing rent-a-quotes, placing unnecessary pressure on the United managers and players who are trying to represent the club. Special shout out to Paul Scholes, the biggest disappointment of all. As a player, Paul Scholes didn't want anything to do with the media, now he's going on podcasts talking about how United managers don't "look like United managers."
They bang on about the "United way" but is it the "United way" to be feeding the media frenzy shitting on the club with quote after quote of unnecessary criticism?
I accept that most of us are frustrated at how the club is doing but have a moan in private for feck's sake. You lot going on podcasts talking about the club in a negative way just creates too much unnecessary pressure on the players and managers. It's bad enough rest of the world are hyper critical on everything the club does but it hurts a lot more when it's your own twisting the knife in.
It was hilarious (and childish) to see how Amorim blamed Garry Neville for his impeding sacking, insinuating that Neville was responsible for "switch the system" movement and that Gary personally influenced Wilcox then pressuring Amorim
As if finishing 15th, shamelessly losing Europa final to fecking Spurs, or having the worst win ratio since Sir Alex was also Neville's fault
Fact: Wilcox is shit, but Amorim is petulant child who is immature and blind to his own shortcomings. Had he done a better job, nobody would have been able to pressure him. And not having players is bullshit excuse. He made choices in the Summer that were naive (not letting Bruno go and thinking they would get Baleba an addition to two #10s) and he underperformed even with players he did have
Cry me a fecking river. He had good enough squad to win over Everton, West Ham, and Wolves. No excuses for those shambolic games
Maybe it would help if Neville would stick to his guns instead of changing his mind and reverting to what he enlightened us with two years ago. He’d have a lot more credibility if he admitted he got it wrong or at least offered an explanation instead of reverting to the opinion he had , the one before last.. y’know.. 2x or even 3x opinions ago. Dancing to his employers tune in helping create the hysteria
Childish? Yeah, much mate. Sounds like you’re an expert.
I've said this before but I'd have so much more time and respect for Neville if he hadn't waited the best part of 15 years to speak out against the Glazers. Same with Scholes.
They only spoke out once their mates were no longer employed and once they were safely tucked away with the punditry gigs.
They only spoke out once their mates were no longer employed and once they were safely tucked away with the punditry gigs.
Great post!
And all for a few quid. When they're already multi millionaires.
Yeah he needs to wind his neck in. You never hear ex-players of other clubs as critical as our lot are and for what? A bit of relevance?
With United, unless everything is going superbly simple comments from them end up as big stories putting pressure on us.
It would be nice if our lot learned to support the club as they do have the influence to form narratives. Rio is the only one that seems to be behind the club and not taking cheap shots.
With United, unless everything is going superbly simple comments from them end up as big stories putting pressure on us.
It would be nice if our lot learned to support the club as they do have the influence to form narratives. Rio is the only one that seems to be behind the club and not taking cheap shots.
Surely you see the difference in us gimps writing stuff on message forums and these ex players feeding narratives in the media. Rent a quotes like Neville and Keane are at it every week, and what they say is back page news and asked about at press conferences. Neville was slagging off Sesko after about 2 games when he wasn't actually too bad, it can't be helping these guys settle in. Then Paul Scholes was telling everyone he wasn't convinced by De Ligt because Erik Dier kept him out of the team at Bayern which was literally a myth and proved he doesn't watch enough football.
You know what's ironic? David Beckham, the one who was routinely criticized for being a media whore back in his playing days, hardly ever does whatever Scholes and Neville are doing.
Can someone tell me the United way? Is this the fast countering attack football we used to play on the wing and then cross it in?
The same football we used to play away games in champion leagues hanging on for dear life against smaller clubs?
What people don’t understand is, we’re failures in Europe despite dominating the PL. We’re a big commercial club top 3, big club in the PL but not really a giant in world football regardless of what we like to tell ourselves.
United’s achievement has been making SAF achieve miracles and making him a PR to deflect why we’re not buying top talents in Europe while other big teams were strengthening.
The same football we used to play away games in champion leagues hanging on for dear life against smaller clubs?
What people don’t understand is, we’re failures in Europe despite dominating the PL. We’re a big commercial club top 3, big club in the PL but not really a giant in world football regardless of what we like to tell ourselves.
United’s achievement has been making SAF achieve miracles and making him a PR to deflect why we’re not buying top talents in Europe while other big teams were strengthening.
This is nonsense; we are clearly a giant in world football and are not failures in Europe. Only six clubs have won more European Cups than us, and half of those only because they had a purple patch when it was much easier to rack up wins than it was in the SAF era. We would likely have won several more if arguably our best ever side hadn't been involved in a plane crash.
We were still a massive club in the 70s and 80s despite having won very little relative to our status. Part of the United way , and the modus operandi at similar big clubs, is handling the pressure and expectation, and embracing it and using it in your favour, not being cowed by it. Real Madrid do that in finals; Liverpool do it in European games at Anfield, we did it by consistently scoring late goals at clutch moments under SAF. It's more down to mentality than tactics.
So is it SAF or United?
You say it’s nonsense then mention we should have won more but the tragic accident stopped us. What stopped us dominating Europe like the other top 6?
It’s hard to admit but as a club, we’re useless without SAF.
This is the kicker; they are doing this because they want to, not because they need to.
By this point you have to be a real numbskull to think they are not detrimental to the dressing room - it's clear that media pressure rattles managers and if you want United to do well, you would not contribute so willingly. The useless defence of 'oh but people say it on the caf' sometimes gets rolled out but I think to think most people understand there's a difference between being a club legend whilst working for a national broadcaster and posting on here.
Nothing to worry about.
Wait...
Wait...
Couldn't agree more. They are players we admired while growing up and to see them become like this is just sad. I'm sick of all of them, especially Neville, Scholes and Butt and their constant negativity.
Scholes and Butt being thick as feck doesn't help either. Just saw a video of them standing like dorks saying yes or no to different names they would want to manage the club. They both said yes to Roy Keane. Tells you everything about them and their views.
Neville likes this system he even said he was looking forward to seeing us in this style when Amorim joined and thought we'd be good in it
Everything can be true. Amorim was out of his depth, didn’t understand the club’s identity (RE: the identity the club & those associated with it want to project) and deserved to be sacked on results alone… But also that ex pros whinging online are ultimately an incredibly unhelpful and damaging distraction, solely benefiting themselves. The Scholes and Butt one is ridiculous ‘inmydayism’ that was seemingly promoted entirely off the back of criticising Amorim, they keep insisting Roy Keane should be given the job and the last thing anyone needs right now is a new fecking videod podcast. Just useless nonsense. White noise in the ether.
Also all this “Fergie wouldn’t have stood for it” bullshit seemingly conveniently ignores that the very last thing Fergie wouldve stood for was his old players bitching about the current state of the club on a podcast… with the most obvious example of that being the person they bafflingly think should come out of a near 15 year management retirement to manage the World’s most scrutinised club!
INEOS are a shit show, the Glasers were a shit show, and the gaggle of ex players constantly talking about it would be just as big of a shit show if given the chance. Ideally none of these people should be in charge of running Man Utd, but apparently they all are in some form or another
…. FFS
Also all this “Fergie wouldn’t have stood for it” bullshit seemingly conveniently ignores that the very last thing Fergie wouldve stood for was his old players bitching about the current state of the club on a podcast… with the most obvious example of that being the person they bafflingly think should come out of a near 15 year management retirement to manage the World’s most scrutinised club!
INEOS are a shit show, the Glasers were a shit show, and the gaggle of ex players constantly talking about it would be just as big of a shit show if given the chance. Ideally none of these people should be in charge of running Man Utd, but apparently they all are in some form or another
…. FFS
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The calls from some ex pros calling for Roy Keane to be implemented as our next coach is far and away one of the dumbest suggestions I've ever heard.
At this point,, they really do want their mates in charge or at least be a prominent figure in some capacity.
At this point,, they really do want their mates in charge or at least be a prominent figure in some capacity.
I get the point, we could do with instilling the same standards and mentality that Fergie had, and Keane is the best example of that.
Where I disagree with them is I don't think Keane is equipped to do that.
Theres literally a film out right now about how he is prone to the same kind of meltdown as Amorim!
He didn't blame Gary Neville.
He blamed the gobshites above him who were quoting Gary Neville to him.
Big difference, you must see that.
And it's a big problem for any new manager in the future.
As much as I loathe Gary Neville this isn't that big of a deal. He'd probably say himself now that he thought it was worth a shot at the time, but then once it became clear it wasn't working it was time to try something else.
I think the shits hit the fan after the Wolves game. Every man and his dog would have agreed with Gary Neville on commentary that it was an absolute joke the way we set up against them that day. I think the like of Wilcox has had words as he should have done and Amorim has gone all defensive thinking 'you sound like you've been listening to Gary Neville' so threw the toys out and kept the 5 at the back until he was fired.
Wait, what Neville has to do with redcafe? He is the voice of United fans of something?
You really can't see difference between fans sharing their opinion on forums and social media between club's legends shitting on manager and players on daily basis? Just click on, lets say Daily Mail now. Man Utd news; 5 top articles, 3 are what those pathetic nostalgia merchants said. Which then puts pressure on manager and players and creates public picture about United.
They bring toxicity around the club. How many times already Amorim and Erik were asked to comment what Neville said or what Scholes said.
It shouldn't be like that but, unfortunately, it is. Pundits these days have big influence and can (which our ex players do) create negative picture in public.
It could also quite easily be that those above him echo'ed what Neville was saying (as did the rest of the world) and it wasnt necessarily a dependency on his thoughts.
That's pretty funny in hindsight. I do think he has a point though. A lot of our defenders fit well in a back three, especially Maguire, Martinez and to some extent Mazraoui at RCB. The problem is that even when using this system, we were leaking goals like crazy, which is something Amorim has to take some of the blame for. And then we obviously didn't have the rest of the pieces to make the system work, most notably players that could adequately fill the wingback roles. Playing three at the back loses all meaning, when the team is still conceding like crazy and have to force-fit players like Amad in at wingback.
I'm sick of him. So opinionated on tactics yet with such poor grasp on them. Ever flip flopping on what our club should do yet driving toxicity against managers.
I couldn't believe my eyes today watching a video clip of his past shows of his "stick tk football" podcast describing how "ETH should gave gone 3 at the back' and hod it suited Dalot, Mazroui and show who arr " wingbacks"
.
Yet he spent the majority of sacked Amorim's year long stint railing against use of a back 3 and swearing "our profile of players don't fit" .
Now he's back to pontificating about "in coming Manager's needing the United DNA" after railing before that about needing manager with "structure and style of play"
I couldn't believe my eyes today watching a video clip of his past shows of his "stick tk football" podcast describing how "ETH should gave gone 3 at the back' and hod it suited Dalot, Mazroui and show who arr " wingbacks"
.
Yet he spent the majority of sacked Amorim's year long stint railing against use of a back 3 and swearing "our profile of players don't fit" .
Now he's back to pontificating about "in coming Manager's needing the United DNA" after railing before that about needing manager with "structure and style of play"
It's wild that Ryan Giggs maybe had the most reasonable take on Amorim
What did he say?
Key Points of Giggs' View:
- Support for Amorim: Giggs likes Amorim and believes he's the right man for the job if given the chance.
- Need for Time: He emphasizes that Amorim needs several transfer windows and patience from the club and fans.
- Recruitment Issues: Giggs highlights past poor recruitment decisions at Manchester United and stresses the need to get the right players for Amorim's system.
- Player Changes: He supports Amorim's actions in moving on players he doesn't fancy, such as Jadon Sancho and Antony, to bring in better fits.
- Realistic Expectations: Giggs suggests that winning the league immediately isn't the goal, but seeing improvement and consistent progress is key.
What is the "Manchester United" way? We have played defensive, attacking, ball dominant, on the counter.. what's left? What is our "DNA"?
Fecking buzzwords. To me, there are a handful of clubs in this world that have a distinct footballing philosophy. I feel like the club hoped to go into a new direction with signing Ten Hag and his ambitious talk until he fooled everybody and went from 'wanting to dominate opponents in possession' to 'we will be the best transition team in the world'.
We have no philosophy, no idea, no DNA. And it's impossible if you keep sacking managers after less than two years. Not saying that they should keep underperforming managers, or that a club necessarily needs to have a philosophy (although it would help in identifying and recruitment of both managers and players) but he needs to stop talking nonsense.
Only if you win is it "the United way", because we have tried everything else already. Sure, there is plenty of room for improvement when it comes to mentality in this squad, but that alone won't get you there.
As I said...
"There isn't anything said by ex-United players that hasn't been said 1,000 times by fans, be it at the ground or online."
So why get so offended about what Neville says when it's exactly the same as what people say on The Caf every day.
You may not agree with everything Neville or any other pundit says, and you may not like the delivery from someone like Scholes or Keane, but are they really that wide of the mark in their assessments ?
Please tell me when Neville has "shit on" Amorim.
What is it that you want? No one to discuss United post game so that your manager doesn't have to answer difficult questions?
Or you want some kind of state TV / North Korea / MUFC media ecosystem where only positive things are said about United?
Pundits have always had an influence. The difference today is that fans get so butt huts when they give their opinions.
Thanks for the AI summery.
Oh here you go then...
Ryan Giggs on Amorim: “We don't expect to win the league this year, maybe not even next year, but we want to see improvements. Is it winning the FA Cup? Is it getting a Champions League spot? Is it being more consistent? Is it bringing in players that excite us? And he needs time to do that.
“The problem is you don't get time anymore, it seems like he's got the backing of the club. You really do need to manage short-term and long-term. He probably has to concentrate more on the short term at the moment.
“But the problem we've had in the last 10 years is that the next manager comes in and just chops and changes because he's not happy with the players, and it's just a vicious circle.
“He's got rid of the players he doesn’t fancy, the Sancho, Antony, Rashford, and he's got good players in. He needs a couple more transfer windows.” #MUFC [MailSport]
DId you even read my post? I think you didn't. If you can't or don't want to understand how toxic they are then i can't help you.
No other club in PL has ex players who are doing against their club week after week.
No team dominated when the format changed, entry was easier but it was much harder to win, look at the teams United beat to win in 1968, or the teams Liverpool had to beat to win in the 70's and 80's and then compare to the CL era, also in the early CL years United were hampered by the 'foreigner rule' - that basically meant that we couldn't play the teams that actually won the PL for a period of time when we probably were the best side in European football
I read your post. It was thin skinned, whiney nonsense. You seem to be more thin skinned and affected by what the media say than Amorim. He was clearly upset about what Gary Neville said, just like you are.
Tell me how these ex players are "doing against their club week after week".
What is it that they are saying that is so out of line?
Or are you going to fail to answer that, like you failed to answer my prior question...