Gary Neville WAS a red

Tom Cato

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Shaw's studs went into the player's ankle.

And while I think Shaw probably got a touch on the ball, I wouldn't bet my mortgage that it wasn't a touch from the Burnley player's left boot instead.
Shaws studs went into the ankle indeed. I'm all for a good favorable referee call, but that there is a free kick every day of the week. It's unfortunate, it's not a malicious tackle by Shaw and he does hit the ball first from the replay I saw during the game yesterday. But the followthrough is accidental but studs first into the shinguard, so this is nothing to debate.

If this was the other way around it'd be pitchfork emporium around here if we didn't get a free kick out of it.

The Maguire disallowed goal however, is a complete and utter joke.
 

Leroy The Red

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The tackle was a yellow at best. It was the denial of a goal scoring opportunity that could have made it red.

VAR got this incident spot on last night in my view. We’d have been rightly seething if it was the other way round and one of our guys was sent off, when we were fouled in the build up.

When did he say that? I thought he said Brady should be of and dyche will be happy it got pulled back for a foul
Yeah I got it wrong..
Basically I’d got it into my head he meant yellow at best for United :houllier: in terms of the Brady challenge.
 

Coops73

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Sadly I think you need to catch up to the 21st century buddy, it’s definitely a yellow, would of been furious if it was a red but seen them given
I’ve watched that tackle back again and Shaw definitely makes contact with the ball first and then follows through onto Goodmansons right leg but he goes down clutching his left leg which has had no contact at all which to me suggests he’s bullshitting the severity to which the Burnley players react, how Gary Neville continues to say Shaw hasn’t made any contact is baffling when to me it’s quite clear to see he gets the ball first.
 

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Shaw's studs went into the player's ankle.

And while I think Shaw probably got a touch on the ball, I wouldn't bet my mortgage that it wasn't a touch from the Burnley player's left boot instead.
I would bet my mortgage that Shaw played the ball. Of course this doesn’t mean it wasn’t a foul/yellow/red. It’s been at least 10 years since the violence/recklesness of the challenge didn’t matter so long as you touched the ball. Nev was showing his age by obsessing about whether or not Shaw played the ball.
 

Bubz27

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Just let it go. We won the game. Nothing to see here.
Kind of this, kind of not this.

The issue I have is Neville helps build a narrative that everyone favours United. Whilst this shouldn't be an issue, it does become one which can affect on field decisions.

Even at half time yesterday they were talking about how Maguire's goal and dropped in that Shaw crossed it and maybe he shouldn't have been on the pitch. That was never a red card, not even in today's game. But Neville maintaining that he completely missed the ball helps build that image up.

Then you start to get referees second guessing United calls in the game. Ole spoke about the penalty Martial should've had v Chelsea last year after Lampard had put the pressure on the ref.
 

RedDevil@84

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He apologised on social media after the game for how poor his commentary was last night. I think he got caught up in the emotion of United going top and then remembered he was live and had to have that impartial hat on too, and it ended up being a mess of hasty rash comments against United players every time there was an incident of note. He did also keep saying that Shaw could be “in trouble” over and over again which wasn’t helpful.
I think the apology was as nonsensical as his claim that Shaw did not touch the ball. Being impartial is not that tough. You see what is going on and talk about it. And yes, there will be excitement and despair, depending on your bias, but that is still ok. Fans know who the commentator is and where his loyalty is. So they can live with it.
Outright lying in the commentary has no excuse. Nobody would have said a thing if Nev had just said "Shaw got the ball, but that is a foul".
It is an opinion. Not a lie.
 

Eckers99

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Kind of this, kind of not this.

The issue I have is Neville helps build a narrative that everyone favours United. Whilst this shouldn't be an issue, it does become one which can affect on field decisions.

Even at half time yesterday they were talking about how Maguire's goal and dropped in that Shaw crossed it and maybe he shouldn't have been on the pitch. That was never a red card, not even in today's game. But Neville maintaining that he completely missed the ball helps build that image up.

Then you start to get referees second guessing United calls in the game. Ole spoke about the penalty Martial should've had v Chelsea last year after Lampard had put the pressure on the ref.
Tbh, I was quoting someone else's comment back at them. As far as I'm concerned it absolutely warrants discussion. I thought the ref had a shocking first half.
 

MattyLT

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Obstruction. The Burnley player clearly plants his shin right in front of Shaw's studs.
 

SirScholes

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Follow through? Shaw didn't fly in, or slide with both feet raised. He just nipped in ahead of the attacker in a 50/50 that both players had a right to go for and won the ball. The ref bottled it because he knew he was choosing between a yellow for Shaw or a red at the other end. So, he made the less controversial, incorrect call instead.
It was 100% a yellow because he followed through the ball and his studs ended up planted just above the ankle
A forceful challenge with studs showing is a yellow these days, whether you agree with it or not.
it isn’t 1980 anymore buddy, I agree with you that he won the ball and “back in the day” that’s all that mattered but it’s a booking 9/10 and a sending off if you’ve got a ref looking to be controversial

the correct call was made by the ref which meant Neville was correct to highlight the follow through
 

cyberman

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Shaws studs went into the ankle indeed. I'm all for a good favorable referee call, but that there is a free kick every day of the week. It's unfortunate, it's not a malicious tackle by Shaw and he does hit the ball first from the replay I saw during the game yesterday. But the followthrough is accidental but studs first into the shinguard, so this is nothing to debate.

If this was the other way around it'd be pitchfork emporium around here if we didn't get a free kick out of it.

The Maguire disallowed goal however, is a complete and utter joke.
Its a yellow card but shitting yourself that it might be a red and Ole being relieved was as over the top as the tackle he pretended it was.
 

SirScholes

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I’ve watched that tackle back again and Shaw definitely makes contact with the ball first and then follows through onto Goodmansons right leg but he goes down clutching his left leg which has had no contact at all which to me suggests he’s bullshitting the severity to which the Burnley players react, how Gary Neville continues to say Shaw hasn’t made any contact is baffling when to me it’s quite clear to see he gets the ball first.
I think it’s more baffling that he is quite clearly buzzing about us going top of the league but because he was wrong about 1 thing, and 1 thing only, people are calling him an anti Utd fan and that he’s the worst commentator to exist ever in any sport that there’s ever been.

As it happens i think all co commentators are awful, and often try and be controversial to appear relevant, he is actually one of the best of a bad bunch.
 

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Kind of this, kind of not this.

The issue I have is Neville helps build a narrative that everyone favours United. Whilst this shouldn't be an issue, it does become one which can affect on field decisions.

Even at half time yesterday they were talking about how Maguire's goal and dropped in that Shaw crossed it and maybe he shouldn't have been on the pitch. That was never a red card, not even in today's game. But Neville maintaining that he completely missed the ball helps build that image up.

Then you start to get referees second guessing United calls in the game. Ole spoke about the penalty Martial should've had v Chelsea last year after Lampard had put the pressure on the ref.
That's not Neville though, that was Redknapp and the other bloke in the studio who both said they thought it could have been a red card.
 

SirScholes

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I would bet my mortgage that Shaw played the ball. Of course this doesn’t mean it wasn’t a foul/yellow/red. It’s been at least 10 years since the violence/recklesness of the challenge didn’t matter so long as you touched the ball. Nev was showing his age by obsessing about whether or not Shaw played the ball.
It’s probably off topic but I agree with Gary when he actually said something like “he gets a toe on the ball and it’s that which has saved him”

having just listened to the highlights, the only time he mentions missing the ball is when he is talking about cavani, I think there has been a misunderstanding here
 

SirScholes

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Kind of this, kind of not this.

The issue I have is Neville helps build a narrative that everyone favours United. Whilst this shouldn't be an issue, it does become one which can affect on field decisions.

Even at half time yesterday they were talking about how Maguire's goal and dropped in that Shaw crossed it and maybe he shouldn't have been on the pitch. That was never a red card, not even in today's game. But Neville maintaining that he completely missed the ball helps build that image up.

Then you start to get referees second guessing United calls in the game. Ole spoke about the penalty Martial should've had v Chelsea last year after Lampard had put the pressure on the ref.
He doesn’t actually say that, the only time he says that is about the Burnley challenge on Cavani
I’ve just listened to 2 separate highlights of the Var incident, happy to share the links

he also goes on to say “it’s difficult to see from where we are”
 

Bubz27

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That's not Neville though, that was Redknapp and the other bloke in the studio who both said they thought it could have been a red card.
Yeah, as I mentioned it all helps to build a narrative though, doesnt it. It's all a bit speculative of course, but if Neville didn't say a dozen times that Shaw didn't touch him then maybe they don't talk about him being sent off and ultimately play down the fact that Maguire's goal should've stood, which should've been a bigger talking point than it was.
 

Bubz27

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He doesn’t actually say that, the only time he says that is about the Burnley challenge on Cavani
I’ve just listened to 2 separate highlights of the Var incident, happy to share the links

he also goes on to say “it’s difficult to see from where we are”
I watched the game in real time and he absolutely 100% said Shaw didn't get the ball, and maintained his stance, despite clear evidence that he did touch the ball.
 

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It’s probably off topic but I agree with Gary when he actually said something like “he gets a toe on the ball and it’s that which has saved him”

having just listened to the highlights, the only time he mentions missing the ball is when he is talking about cavani, I think there has been a misunderstanding here
I seem to remember him clearly saying something like ‘does he touch the ball? No I don’t think he does.’ When the shaw challenge was first being replayed.
 

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Shaw's studs went into the player's ankle.

And while I think Shaw probably got a touch on the ball, I wouldn't bet my mortgage that it wasn't a touch from the Burnley player's left boot instead.
Shaw clearly gets a touch on the ball.
 

SirScholes

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I watched the game in real time and he absolutely 100% said Shaw didn't get the ball, and maintained his stance, despite clear evidence that he did touch the ball.
Doesn’t matter where you watched we are watching the same thing, it’s a highlight of his commentary
He even says he got a toe on the ball
 

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Yeah, as I mentioned it all helps to build a narrative though, doesnt it. It's all a bit speculative of course, but if Neville didn't say a dozen times that Shaw didn't touch him then maybe they don't talk about him being sent off and ultimately play down the fact that Maguire's goal should've stood, which should've been a bigger talking point than it was.
I mean it was a 6 minute VAR incident... It was always going to be discussed at length, no matter what Neville said.

They did also give just as much time to the Maguire header and everyone was unanimous in saying it definitely should have stood.
 

SirScholes

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I seem to remember him clearly saying something like ‘does he touch the ball? No I don’t think he does.’ When the shaw challenge was first being replayed.
He may of said both, from one angle it’s hard to see from another it’s clear
Depends what version he had on at the time, but this Neville said “he completely missed the ball” was regarding cavani, he never said it with shaw
 

Bubz27

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Doesn’t matter where you watched we are watching the same thing, it’s a highlight of his commentary
He even says he got a toe on the ball
I didn't watch a highlight of his commentary. I watched his whole commentary. He said at one point he got a toe on the ball after literally minutes of maintaining that he didn't. The highlights might make it look like he said it fairly both ways, or they could completely omit him ever saying that Shaw didn't get the ball. Highlights are not the whole picture. I'd suggest you watch the whole 6 minutes if you can get ahold of them.
 

Bubz27

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I mean it was a 6 minute VAR incident... It was always going to be discussed at length, no matter what Neville said.

They did also give just as much time to the Maguire header and everyone was unanimous in saying it definitely should have stood.
And yet today all the coverage is of Shaw's tackle. Probably partly because it was VAR and that gets hits, but if Neville had called it down the middle and said he got the ball but also got the player, it's a yellow card then it isn't as big a deal.

His instinct is to downplay United. Brady's tackle, the first thing he said was it's a yellow at best. At best? No, at the very least it's a yellow. Did he misspeak? Maybe. Did he go back and say it could've been a red? Yeah. But his instinct is always to go against United.

I do get why, he wants to seem impartial. But then I remember Carragher singing when Salah scored against us last year and I'd love Neville to just stick it like that.
 

Eckers99

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It was 100% a yellow because he followed through the ball and his studs ended up planted just above the ankle
A forceful challenge with studs showing is a yellow these days, whether you agree with it or not.
it isn’t 1980 anymore buddy, I agree with you that he won the ball and “back in the day” that’s all that mattered but it’s a booking 9/10 and a sending off if you’ve got a ref looking to be controversial

the correct call was made by the ref which meant Neville was correct to highlight the follow through
The era is irrelevant here, buddy, it's interpretation of the law. There's a world of difference between a player being reckless / aggressive and 2 players coming together because both were reaching for a 50/50.
 

SirScholes

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The era is irrelevant here, buddy, it's interpretation of the law. There's a world of difference between a player being reckless / aggressive and 2 players coming together because both were reaching for a 50/50.
The difference is shaws studs were showing and landed in the guys ankle
It’s a foul and a yellow and has been that way for atleast a decade
 

NoneBmStore

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You're all a bit sensitive in here, aren't you? Here he is, walking out of yesterday's match humming "Gary Neville is a red".

If you've got any doubt where his allegiance lies, it's on you.
People just want to be critical of everything
Of course he is as big a red as he’s always been. Born in Manchester, played for us his entire career.
This thread is honestly a joke
 

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And yet today all the coverage is of Shaw's tackle. Probably partly because it was VAR and that gets hits, but if Neville had called it down the middle and said he got the ball but also got the player, it's a yellow card then it isn't as big a deal.

His instinct is to downplay United. Brady's tackle, the first thing he said was it's a yellow at best. At best? No, at the very least it's a yellow. Did he misspeak? Maybe. Did he go back and say it could've been a red? Yeah. But his instinct is always to go against United.

I do get why, he wants to seem impartial. But then I remember Carragher singing when Salah scored against us last year and I'd love Neville to just stick it like that.
"A yellow at best" means that the best result for Brady would be a yellow card.

I think you're overplaying Neville's influence on the media. It's a VAR incident that was a bit unusual and involved Manchester United... Its always going to get a lot of coverage. The incident would receive the same attention if Neville had said it was never a foul by Shaw in a million years.
 

Bubz27

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"A yellow at best" means that the best result for Brady would be a yellow card.

I think you're overplaying Neville's influence on the media. It's a VAR incident that was a bit unusual and involved Manchester United... Its always going to get a lot of coverage. The incident would receive the same attention if Neville had said it was never a foul by Shaw in a million years.
Good point on the "at best" comment. I'd only thought of it from a United POV, as in best case for United was a yellow.
 

SirScholes

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I didn't watch a highlight of his commentary. I watched his whole commentary. He said at one point he got a toe on the ball after literally minutes of maintaining that he didn't. The highlights might make it look like he said it fairly both ways, or they could completely omit him ever saying that Shaw didn't get the ball. Highlights are not the whole picture. I'd suggest you watch the whole 6 minutes if you can get ahold of them.
So what the hell are people whinging about haha!

he might of said once or twice, but when he saw his error corrected it?
from behind it isn’t clear it really isn’t, and he even says I’m commentary it’s difficult to see from here
 

Coops73

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I think it’s more baffling that he is quite clearly buzzing about us going top of the league but because he was wrong about 1 thing, and 1 thing only, people are calling him an anti Utd fan and that he’s the worst commentator to exist ever in any sport that there’s ever been.

As it happens i think all co commentators are awful, and often try and be controversial to appear relevant, he is actually one of the best of a bad bunch.
I have never said he’s a bad commentator or anti United.
 

Bubz27

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So what the hell are people whinging about haha!

he might of said once or twice, but when he saw his error corrected it?
from behind it isn’t clear it really isn’t, and he even says I’m commentary it’s difficult to see from here
You're absolutely ridiculous aren't you. You can't pick and choose and just absorb that information.

He said Shaw missed the ball many many many times, not once or twice. And my entire point is that he helped build the narrative. Shouting something a dozen times from the rooftops and then whispering "actually, I was wrong" doesn't undo the damage.

If he had only said it once or twice, then corrected himself, that would be absolutely fine. But he didn't. So you're wrong.

The fact that he has actually apologised for it should be enough to show that even he knows he was terrible.
 

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Shaws studs went into the ankle indeed. I'm all for a good favorable referee call, but that there is a free kick every day of the week. It's unfortunate, it's not a malicious tackle by Shaw and he does hit the ball first from the replay I saw during the game yesterday. But the followthrough is accidental but studs first into the shinguard, so this is nothing to debate.

If this was the other way around it'd be pitchfork emporium around here if we didn't get a free kick out of it.

The Maguire disallowed goal however, is a complete and utter joke.
Neville said that he didn't touch the ball and it was a red card for Shaw over and over again when Shaw clearly touched the ball that is why people are moaning in the Neville was a red thread.
He also said that Maguire handled the ball and could have given away a pen.

This thread isn't the thread to decide whether the ref was right or not but to moan about Neville continuously come down against Man Utd when he's doing commentary enabling the ABU media to put pressure on refs to deny perfectly fair goals such as the Maguire goal. Then not even complaining about the goal being disallowed.