Gary Neville was dead to me | Reborn as a Dragon

kouroux

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He definitely stopped short of calling out OGS by name. Obviously couldn’t do that to an old friend. The inference was clear though. And people are calling him a racist because of that?!? Well done people.
I think some called him that for another (yet ridiculous) reason. Regarding the first part, Neville is caught between being a credible, objective pundit and someone who doesn't wanna criticize his friends. It's not easy tbh to find the right balance, you cannot make everyone happy. That's my main criticism, more than that (the racist abuse that happened after the game) is giving him way too much power. Otherwise he would be akin to Trump which would be crazy to me.
 

Pogue Mahone

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He does have something against Pogba, that's why.
Pogba is the focus of a lot of his criticism for reasons that couldn’t be more fair and obvious.

Most expensive PL footballer ever, who rarely seems to put much effort in on the pitch, tends to play an overly self indulgent style of football, has occasionally seemed to deliberately stop trying and was actively trying to engineer a move away from the club all summer; for the second time in his career (not to mention his agent touting him to City, half way through the previous season)

It takes quite an effort of mental gymnastics to spin this into Neville being an unfair and racist pundit. Evidently hasn’t stopped complete idiots from trying, mind you.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I think some called him that for another (yet ridiculous) reason. Regarding the first part, Neville is caught between being a credible, objective pundit and someone who doesn't wanna criticize his friends. It's not easy tbh to find the right balance, you cannot make everyone happy. That's my main criticism, more than that (the racist abuse that happened after the game) is giving him way too much power. Otherwise he would be akin to Trump which would be crazy to me.
Ex United players as pundits are in a difficult situation tbf. They have to strike a balance between doing what’s best for the club they obviously care about vs fulfilling their duties as a pundit. Throw in personal friendships and it gets even messier.

Whatever happens, though, idiot fans on twitter will find a way to crucify them. Paul Scholes has been a figure of hate for ages because he’s been so negative throughout the recent shitty years at the club. Now Neville is being hung out to dry for not being critical enough about the manager. They can’t win!
 

kouroux

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Ex United players as pundits are in a difficult situation tbf. They have to strike a balance between doing what’s best for the club they obviously care about vs fulfilling their duties as a pundit. Throw in personal friendships and it gets even messier.

Whatever happens, though, idiot fans on twitter will find a way to crucify them. Paul Scholes has been a figure of hate for ages because he’s been so negative throughout the recent shitty years at the club. Now Neville is being hung out to dry for not being critical enough about the manager. They can’t win!
That's the life of a pundit, Carragher (when he doesn't spit on people) is more enjoyable to listen to for instance.
It's mainly about lashing out on players when the real cause isn't even mentioned that annoyed me. Nothing serious beyond that
 

The Last Jedaiiii

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In the words of Jaap Stam, Neville is a "busy cnut." He cant seem to stop having an opinion on something. Even if it contradicts his previous stance. To suggest he's fueling racism is a bit strong, though.
It's only strong if you think racism is something that is practiced overtly rather than systematically. Neville knew what he was doing and due to the fact he didn't use the n word, and that he's contrasting Pogba with another black player, surely he cant be racist.
Look at it systematically and you'll see that :
1. Racism is a spectrum
2. It is layered.
Rashford is black, but compared to Pogba, he's less of the "other". Pogba is black, foreign and a muslim. Look beyond the surface and understand how this works.
 

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Pogba is the focus of a lot of his criticism for reasons that couldn’t be more fair and obvious.

Most expensive PL footballer ever, who rarely seems to put much effort in on the pitch, tends to play an overly self indulgent style of football, has occasionally seemed to deliberately stop trying and was actively trying to engineer a move away from the club all summer; for the second time in his career (not to mention his agent touting him to City, half way through the previous season)

It takes quite an effort of mental gymnastics to spin this into Neville being an unfair and racist pundit. Evidently hasn’t stopped complete idiots from trying, mind you.
Absolutely spot on, exactly my thoughts (although articulated better than i could manage!)
 

Jeppers7

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It’s astonishing how many people are completely misconstruing what he said and spinning it into a personal attack on Pogba. Have you all lost your fecking minds?!?

He opened his rant by saying that he went back to check footage from the previous match and had concluded that Rashford and Pogba were both taking the ball off each other. His issue was clearly with the way the lack of organisation and leadership on the pitch allowed this to happen. If anything the individual who should feel most attacked was the manager. His old pal, Solskjaer.

How the flying feck the great unwashed online have spun this into him leading a personal attack on Pogba, while bending over backwards to protect Rashford and Ole, is an absolute mystery to me. The world’s gone fecking mad.
'Typical you, you're selfish'

Spending the next forty minutes debating and letting little grenades off, but then putting the lid back on with caveats 'had that been the case then it would have been....but it wasn't, but if it had Pogba would be treacherous'

He implied Ole was lying to protect Pogba, but threw in the caveat 'it's not impossible that they have the most stupid and ridiculous system, it could be the case' which basically means he's saying it's definitely not the system that's in place.

He was making endless accusations and then putting the lid on them, he was making reference to Pogba as a person, not the player, using other examples and saying they weren't the same because it's possible that united have this system, then went on to imply the system was definitely made up to protect Pogba as it was so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.

Since it's been pointed out that the United teams he played in had similar issues with penalties at times. He's sat back and said nothing and liked nothing anyone else has said in defence of Pogba, despite racist abuse, half the media have came out against the abuse he received. Guys in the Streford end Saturday who I've watched for two years abuse Pogba, were shouting 'one Paul Pogba' finally giving some support.

Nevilles response to it all at the end of the week?....to imply Pogba is at fault for Rashford missing the penalty Saturday.


I don't actually think this should be looked at as an 'I don't like Pogba' situation, yet the only people on here who seem to have no issue with Neville are those I see constantly having irrational digs and personal digs at Pogba.

The point is that Nevilles rant was unnecessary and unhelpful, it brought a weeks worth of negative coverage onto one player. The week ended with another penalty being missed and the same implications being made with Neville tweeting
'team over individual' or in old money 'typical you, you're selfish'
 

Pogue Mahone

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That's the life of a pundit, Carragher (when he doesn't spit on people) is more enjoyable to listen to for instance.
It's mainly about lashing out on players when the real cause isn't even mentioned that annoyed me. Nothing serious beyond that
I think Carragher would end up annoying you if a) you were a Liverpool fan and b) Liverpool had been floundering as badly as us these last few years.
 

Rado_N

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By doing his job as a pundit? I guess so, sure. Harsh thing to have a go at him over though.
His job as a pundit doesn't require him to go on enormous personal rants against a single player using inflammatory language and insinuation and ignoring everything that doesn't fit his agenda.

Pogba is a polarising figure, I get that, and he's done plenty to put himself on the wrong side of the fans, and it's also obvious what your own position is so I get why you're keen to defend Neville, but he was waaaaaay too far last week, and his reaction since has only served to double down on his idiocy.

I mean, he whipped up a storm over absolutely nothing and then used that suggested Pogba caused the storm and the storm caused Rashford to miss his penalty.

The bloke's a feckwit and a bit of an arsehole quite frankly.
 

kouroux

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I think Carragher would end up annoying you if a) you were a Liverpool fan and b) Liverpool had been floundering as badly as us these last few years.
There are other United legends I don't find nearly as annoying as Neville, Scholes and Rio for instance. It has nothing to do with the club's current situation
 

Pogue Mahone

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His job as a pundit doesn't require him to go on enormous personal rants against a single player using inflammatory language and insinuation and ignoring everything that doesn't fit his agenda.

Pogba is a polarising figure, I get that, and he's done plenty to put himself on the wrong side of the fans, and it's also obvious what your own position is so I get why you're keen to defend Neville, but he was waaaaaay too far last week, and his reaction since has only served to double down on his idiocy.

I mean, he whipped up a storm over absolutely nothing and then used that suggested Pogba caused the storm and the storm caused Rashford to miss his penalty.

The bloke's a feckwit and a bit of an arsehole quite frankly.
So that never actually happened.

Unless I’m missing something? We are still talking about his punditry at the Wolves game?
 

shaky

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Weird how Souness had been slamming Pogba weekly for about 2 years, to the point of obsession, and I don't remember any claims of him inciting racial hatred. Neville criticised one penalty kick and he's now a fully signed up member of the KKK in some Utd fans' eyes.
 

Cassidy

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He definitely stopped short of calling out OGS by name. Obviously couldn’t do that to an old friend. The inference was clear though. And people are calling him a racist because of that?!? Well done people.
I don't think he is a racist.
However the guy does pedal some xenophobic vibes since he's always so harsh on foreign players and hardly criticises the British players in the team
 

kouroux

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I’d say that’s mainly because you get them in much smaller doses.
I get Neville in small doses, he's not in my face as much as the people who have direct and continious access to Sky. I watch football videos on youtube of various channels or rather listen to when I work out in my room. During games, I tune out, punditry in general bores me when I'm there for matches.
 

Rado_N

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So that never actually happened.

Unless I’m missing something? We are still talking about his punditry at the Wolves game?
There's clearly not much point discussing it if you're going to deny the fundamental existence of what happened.
 

LiquidSnake

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I thought you were talking about here.

It's definitely reasonable to say he's contributed to the hatred though.
His job as a pundit doesn't require him to go on enormous personal rants against a single player using inflammatory language and insinuation and ignoring everything that doesn't fit his agenda.

Pogba is a polarising figure, I get that, and he's done plenty to put himself on the wrong side of the fans, and it's also obvious what your own position is so I get why you're keen to defend Neville, but he was waaaaaay too far last week, and his reaction since has only served to double down on his idiocy.

I mean, he whipped up a storm over absolutely nothing and then used that suggested Pogba caused the storm and the storm caused Rashford to miss his penalty.

The bloke's a feckwit and a bit of an arsehole quite frankly.
I agree with you apart for your first post. And I absolutely hate TV pundits (especially Gary Neville type), but you can't say he helped people spread racist hate towards him (which seems to be the main thing as of now)...

Pogba the player hate ? Probably. Pogba the personality hate ? Maybe (with rants like the one he had). Pogba the black man hate ? No, as there's no evidence of that.
 

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I agree with you apart for your first post. And I absolutely hate TV pundits (especially Gary Neville type), but you can't say he helped people spread racist hate towards him (which seems to be the main thing as of now)...

Pogba the player hate ? Probably. Pogba the personality hate ? Maybe (with rants like the one he had). Pogba the black man hate ? No, as there's no evidence of that.
Where did I say that?

I said he contributes to the hatred. Which he does.

Some of that will spill over into racism because there are knuckle dragging shitheads all over the internet, he obviously isn't responsible for that, but he lit the blue touch paper.
 

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So that never actually happened.

Unless I’m missing something? We are still talking about his punditry at the Wolves game?
How can you say there was no personal rant... when there are tonnes of videos online showing Neville's personal attack on Pogba? You're in a massive minority here.

Neville (and other pundits) just want to influence the club irrespective of positive or negative. He might have been a fan a few years ago but I don't believe you can class him as one now. Do you think you'd EVER hear Steven Gerrard talking about Liverpool the way Gary does? Even Rio doesn't do it...
 

Random Task

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It’s astonishing how many people are completely misconstruing what he said and spinning it into a personal attack on Pogba. Have you all lost your fecking minds?!?

He opened his rant by saying that he went back to check footage from the previous match and had concluded that Rashford and Pogba were both taking the ball off each other. His issue was clearly with the way the lack of organisation and leadership on the pitch allowed this to happen. If anything the individual who should feel most attacked was the manager. His old pal, Solskjaer.

How the flying feck the great unwashed online have spun this into him leading a personal attack on Pogba, while bending over backwards to protect Rashford and Ole, is an absolute mystery to me. The world’s gone fecking mad.
I completely agree with you regards the Pogba situation. He wasn't leading an attack on Pogba, and he's in no way responsible for the racism that followed. It's crazy to even suggest as much.

He's done himself no favours with his recent tweets however, 'offering out' a random guy on the internet is never going to go down well. It's the kind of thing people remember you for.
 

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It's only strong if you think racism is something that is practiced overtly rather than systematically. Neville knew what he was doing and due to the fact he didn't use the n word, and that he's contrasting Pogba with another black player, surely he cant be racist.
Look at it systematically and you'll see that :
1. Racism is a spectrum
2. It is layered.
Rashford is black, but compared to Pogba, he's less of the "other". Pogba is black, foreign and a muslim. Look beyond the surface and understand how this works.
I see your point. I suspect the bias from Neville is due to Pogba being 'foreign', non British rather than Muslim. But I couldn't rule it out completely.
 

haram

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Pogba is the focus of a lot of his criticism for reasons that couldn’t be more fair and obvious.

Most expensive PL footballer ever, who rarely seems to put much effort in on the pitch, tends to play an overly self indulgent style of football, has occasionally seemed to deliberately stop trying and was actively trying to engineer a move away from the club all summer; for the second time in his career (not to mention his agent touting him to City, half way through the previous season)

It takes quite an effort of mental gymnastics to spin this into Neville being an unfair and racist pundit. Evidently hasn’t stopped complete idiots from trying, mind you.
I don't think he is racist. He just doesn't like Pogba and will jump on anything to slander him.
 

clarkydaz

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Weird how Souness had been slamming Pogba weekly for about 2 years, to the point of obsession, and I don't remember any claims of him inciting racial hatred. Neville criticised one penalty kick and he's now a fully signed up member of the KKK in some Utd fans' eyes.
The situation with Souness is many see an old man with ingrained beliefs about what a black player should be. If Neville was racist he wouldn't have diffused Rashfords miss would he? He certainly has it in for Pogba though, which surely has foundation but is becoming unbalanced
 

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So that never actually happened.

Unless I’m missing something? We are still talking about his punditry at the Wolves game?
Be honest, did you actually watch the full post match analysis? His whole rant was aimed at Pogba, even his tweets yesterday admitted that he blamed Pogba as he’s our best and most expensive player. Of course you’ll pretend that the analysis was fair given that you openly dislike the guy but when you’ve got figures like Andy Cole calling him out on his bullshit surely even you can see he went to far?
 

Pogue Mahone

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There's clearly not much point discussing it if you're going to deny the fundamental existence of what happened.
I’m talking about his punditry during/after the Wolves match. Which at no point resembled what you just described. Maybe there’s some other comments from him I missed? Certainly feels that way, with the amount of grief he’s been getting since. Seriously. Am I missing something obvious here? Wouldn’t be the first time that happened!
 

matt23

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It's only strong if you think racism is something that is practiced overtly rather than systematically. Neville knew what he was doing and due to the fact he didn't use the n word, and that he's contrasting Pogba with another black player, surely he cant be racist.
Look at it systematically and you'll see that :
1. Racism is a spectrum
2. It is layered.
Rashford is black, but compared to Pogba, he's less of the "other". Pogba is black, foreign and a muslim. Look beyond the surface and understand how this works.
I think Neville is a bit of a tool and deserves more scrutiny, but this post is ridiculous.
 
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So that never actually happened.

Unless I’m missing something? We are still talking about his punditry at the Wolves game?
You mean the same game after which he accused Pogba of football treachery, and inherrent selfishness , accused him and Rashford of 'debating who would take the penalty' (it was the briefest of chats, and accused players of 'not being leaders' for following their manager's instructions to the letter? THAT game?

People are plain just not impressed with G. Neville's blatantly unfair targeting of Pogba. Nothing more
 
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I’m talking about his punditry during/after the Wolves match. Which at no point resembled what you just described. Maybe there’s some other comments from him I missed? Certainly feels that way, with the amount of grief he’s been getting since. Seriously. Am I missing something obvious here? Wouldn’t be the first time that happened!
Did you watch the post match analysis live after the game?
 

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He's not racist, I don't think anyone here suggested that, only on twitter.
But He's biased and opinionated. That part I don't think anyone can argue with, there are loads of evidences that suggest this. And He does seem to have a personal dislike towards Pogba (which is understandable because Pogba is far from what the older ManUtd players used to be like).

No point of defending him, people can easily rewatch his interviews (and not only the last few ones) to see He can be such a gobshite who often changes his tunes. At some point, fans will get sick of him. It's starting to happen now.

And as the other posters said all it takes is an apology instead of calling a fan "muppet" on twitter for having an opinion which was backed up by evidence. He comes as arrogant, acts like a know-it-all when in fact He's failed in management. Sure, He used to be a great player too but fans have short memories, He should have known better.

Debating and belittling the club's supporter is a mark of a small time mentality, a child who throws a tantrum. It wasn't even a personal attack against him, it was a question. He's having a meltdown and oh do I enjoy it very much.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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You mean the same game after which he accused Pogba of football treachery, and inherrent selfishness , accused him and Rashford of 'debating who would take the penalty' (it was the briefest of chats, and accused players of 'not being leaders' for following their manager's instructions to the letter? THAT game?

People are plain just not impressed with G. Neville's blatantly unfair targeting of Pogba. Nothing more
Did you watch the post match analysis live after the game?
I saw all of that. As I said in my first post in this thread, his general point was to highlight a lack of organisation and leadership on the pitch (“there’s something wrong here”). Two players arguing with each other on the pitch about who gets to take a penalty. A fair point, if you ask me. I don’t like it either. IMO there should be a designated taker and no on-field debate. I blame the manager for this. Nev stopped short of doing that. For obvious reasons.

What has me completely baffled is how people interpret that as him hating on Pogba. He fecking started his rant by pointing out that Rashford did the exact same thing vs Chelsea!
 

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What has me completely baffled is how people interpret that as him hating on Pogba. He fecking started his rant by pointing out that Rashford did the exact same thing vs Chelsea!
So why didn’t he talk about selfishness and treachery when discussing Rashford? Especially given that Rashford is undeniably greedy in his game play? Why did he direct those words at Pogba?
 

Santoryo

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I'm reading some of Gary's stuff on twitter and he's surprised some United fans have called him a douche(after he just acted like an arrogant twat on twitter belittling others opinions on United matters). He really does lack self awareness :lol:
 

Cassidy

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I saw all of that. As I said in my first post in this thread, his general point was to highlight a lack of organisation and leadership on the pitch (“there’s something wrong here”). Two players arguing with each other on the pitch about who gets to take a penalty. A fair point, if you ask me. I don’t like it either. IMO there should be a designated taker and no on-field debate. I blame the manager for this. Nev stopped short of doing that. For obvious reasons.

What has me completely baffled is how people interpret that as him hating on Pogba. He fecking started his rant by pointing out that Rashford did the exact same thing vs Chelsea!
Firstly there was no argument.
Secondly if the issue was lack of organisation and leadership. Why has he labelled Pogba a selfish traitor?