Gavi

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What do we think? I've been very impressed with the few perfomances I've seen from him so far.
 

Adamsk7

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Incredible. Barca do know how to churn out these types of players. Him and Pedri are enough to give Barca hope for the future.
 

Sarni

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Looks a bit like a Xavi regen. Waiting on Iviesta and Fressi to join him at Barca.
 

Oranges038

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Looks good.

Barca just need another Busquets to join him and Pedri in midfield. Sorted for the next 10-15 years.
 
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FatTails

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
 

Red_toad

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
So Scholes, Giggs & Beckham never happened? Did we not sign Pogba as a youth product? Jeez moan central in here...
 

FatTails

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So Scholes, Giggs & Beckham never happened? Did we not sign Pogba as a youth product? Jeez moan central in here...
I really didn’t mean it as a moan. Thanks for reminding me of the transfers from over a decade ago though. Very helpful.
 

Red_toad

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I really didn’t mean it as a moan. Thanks for reminding me of the transfers from over a decade ago though. Very helpful.
You didn't specify a timeframe. We've singed numerous young uns recently who are highly rated, even taken one's from Real academy. We even wanted to sign Fati, so it's not for the want of trying. Oh and yes it came across as a moan.
 

FatTails

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You didn't specify a timeframe. We've singed numerous young uns recently who are highly rated, even taken one's from Real academy. We even wanted to sign Fati, so it's not for the want of trying. Oh and yes it came across as a moan.
It’s not about highly rated, we definitely sign top players and top prospects. I meant the type of player.
 

Okey

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Yep. Their future does look real bright with him and Pedri. There's Ansu Fati as well...
 

DWelbz19

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
You can probably extend that question to why England in general doesn’t seem to produce these ball magnet central midfielders with good dribbling ability. It seems a type of midfielder we don’t seem to have a lot (any?) of here.

Hannibal Mejbri in our youth setup is probably closest, but if he gets game time here it will definitely be further up the pitch
 

izec

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You can probably extend that question to why England in general doesn’t seem to produce these ball magnet central midfielders with good dribbling ability. It seems a type of midfielder we don’t seem to have a lot (any?) of here.

Hannibal Mejbri in our youth setup is probably closest, but if he gets game time here it will definitely be further up the pitch
Foden
 

Niemans

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
You can try to sign Alberto Moleiro, 17 years old and plays in Las Palmas. El Barcelona. is trying to sign him
 

Adam-Utd

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
English coaches look for different things in players. Smaller technical players just don't get progressed like big athletic players do.

If for instance Angel Gomes played for Barcelona, I have no doubt he would have made it.

Alternatively, do we think the likes of Mctominay would have broken through at Barcelona? i'm not so sure.

There isn't a right / wrong in this situation, it's just that spain prioritise those types of players that work for their style.
 

macheda14

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English coaches look for different things in players. Smaller technical players just don't get progressed like big athletic players do.

If for instance Angel Gomes played for Barcelona, I have no doubt he would have made it.

Alternatively, do we think the likes of Mctominay would have broken through at Barcelona? i'm not so sure.

There isn't a right / wrong in this situation, it's just that spain prioritise those types of players that work for their style.
This is becoming less and less the case, but there is still the hangover from it being true.

My mate about 12/13 years ago was at Fulham's academy, went on tour to a tournament in Italy and got player of the tournament - he played central midfield and was quite modric like in his playing style. Milan were interested, and a few Spanish teams like Valencia and Sevilla. His parents didn't want him to leave the UK (especially as he was at quite a prestigious school), so he stayed at Fulham and within half a season he was moved on because of his size. He went to QPR and was in the same team as Raheem Sterling, who despite his size was just on another planet compared to the rest of the team, my mate again was approached by a few European sides but parents said no and he was then again moved on because of his size and went on to train at Brentford where he then made the decision to just focus on his studies. If he was born maybe 5/6 years later he probably would have gone on to have at least a championship level career. I know a few guys who played with him at England school boy level along with Will Hughes and Solly March and they all contend he was easily a better and more technical player than them, but he's 5'8 and not amazingly fast, so the youth coaches at the clubs he was at never truly rated him.
 

Classical Mechanic

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English coaches look for different things in players. Smaller technical players just don't get progressed like big athletic players do.

If for instance Angel Gomes played for Barcelona, I have no doubt he would have made it.

Alternatively, do we think the likes of Mctominay would have broken through at Barcelona? i'm not so sure.

There isn't a right / wrong in this situation, it's just that spain prioritise those types of players that work for their style.
It's changing now but the likes of Foden, Gomes, Edwards, McAtee and Elliot are all played in very attacking roles at junior level. It's continental coaches like Guardiola and Klopp that have played the likes of Foden and Elliot in central midfield positions. We still favour box to box athletes in midfield.
 

Adam-Utd

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It's changing now but the likes of Foden, Gomes, Edwards, McAtee and Elliot are all played in very attacking roles at junior level. It's continental coaches like Guardiola and Klopp that have played the likes of Foden and Elliot in central midfield positions. We still favour box to box athletes in midfield.
I think it's also philosophies towards the game. Spain want to control the match and will defend with possession and high pressing.

In England we still think defending is done in our own box by shutting up shop and parking the bus etc. That requires big sturdy men that can win a header or outduel the opponent.

As you say though with more continental coaches in England that's slowly changing.

I'd love to see Foden given more of a chance in the deeper midfield positions for England, having Philips and Rice together is such a waste IMO.
 

el_loco_bielsa

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Can someone smarter than I am tell me why we don’t ever go after, or produce, players like him or Pedri?
Because academies in this country favour power over technique, a reversal of the philosophy at La Masia. He‘s not the first very slight looking 17 year old to be produced there who glides, one touch controls, skips past opponents, measures a pass.

Some of them make it (iniesta, xavi, fabregas, Pedro, possibly PedrI and fati though too early to say), most of them don’t (Puig, Cuenca, jeffren, muniesa, Giovanni dos santos, deulofeu, bojan, assulin, tello, Denis Suarez, Munir, Samper, alena).

I’ll reserve judgement on which group Gavi ends up in rather than jumping to conclusions at this very early stage. Very talented I agree, but a fair few of the duds I mentioned above were at least as talented.
 

MUFC OK

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Good little player, comparisons to Xavi are a bit lazy imo - Xavi much more of a conductor/playmaker whereas Gavi looks to pass and move and his range is inferior. He's more like Iniesta in that sense but talentwise Iniesta was in a different stratosphere all together, even at a tender age. Only 17 though so he can improve a lot.
 

captaincantona

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Because academies in this country favour power over technique, a reversal of the philosophy at La Masia. He‘s not the first very slight looking 17 year old to be produced there who glides, one touch controls, skips past opponents, measures a pass.

Some of them make it (iniesta, xavi, fabregas, Pedro, possibly PedrI and fati though too early to say), most of them don’t (Puig, Cuenca, jeffren, muniesa, Giovanni dos santos, deulofeu, bojan, assulin, tello, Denis Suarez, Munir, Samper, alena).

I’ll wait to reserve judgement on which group Gavi ends up in. Very talented I agree, but a fair few of the duds I mentioned above were at least as talented.
Calling those lads duds is a bit throwaway...all top professionals with great careers to tell their kids and grandkids about. Unbelievable achievement to have come through those academies considering the thousands that have been dropped or released as the years went by.

There are normal humans, there are good footballers, there are talents and then there is “god gave these lads something extra”...Utd have churned out their fair share of footballers...a good few talents....and more than their fair share of the top tier category. But sadly, our first team style of football doesn’t value technicality on the ball so much as pace and power. That’s why Gomes had no chance, why I fear for Amad and Shoretire and why Elanga is seen as a better prospect than all others coming through.
 

Giggsy13

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The one silver lining for Barca is that their financial mess may actually shift their attention to promoting players like Gavi and building up their famous academy again. The galactico approach doesn’t work for them and they were far more likeable as a club when they had a bunch of academy grads in their squad instead of the likes of Griezman, Dembele and Coutinho.
 

Giggsy13

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So Scholes, Giggs & Beckham never happened? Did we not sign Pogba as a youth product? Jeez moan central in here...
I think it’s fair to ask why we can’t churn out more midfielders at that level. You’ve mentioned 3 players from one era and 1 who left and came back. Garner provides some hope at least.
 

kthanksbye

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His awareness of space is beautiful, I watched both the games against Italy and France, and he seems to do that with so much ease. On one occasion he moved in one direction and then just turned around and started jogging in another, completely leaving Pogba dead, the great thing about that was his teammate who new exactly what he was doing and when to play the ball with what speed and what direction. The man in possession pretty much waited for him to draw Pogba in and then run in behind him.

Did the same thing again near the box and almost got into a shooting position.

Cracking little player, but I can't help but notice how these players play to each other's strengths, not just to each other's strengths but also how they magnify it.
 

mav_9me

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I think it's also philosophies towards the game. Spain want to control the match and will defend with possession and high pressing.

In England we still think defending is done in our own box by shutting up shop and parking the bus etc. That requires big sturdy men that can win a header or outduel the opponent.

As you say though with more continental coaches in England that's slowly changing.

I'd love to see Foden given more of a chance in the deeper midfield positions for England, having Philips and Rice together is such a waste IMO.
The last paragraph is not happening under Southgate. You need someone like Enrique who is brave to make that change or maybe Foden shines so much for city in CM, England manager won't have a choice but to play him there.
 

Adam-Utd

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The last paragraph is not happening under Southgate. You need someone like Enrique who is brave to make that change or maybe Foden shines so much for city in CM, England manager won't have a choice but to play him there.
He did just play him against Andorra, but obviously that's Andorra.

I'd say though having a MOTM performance will hopefully give him SOME motivation to try him in a more competitive match.
 

Red_toad

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I think it’s fair to ask why we can’t churn out more midfielders at that level. You’ve mentioned 3 players from one era and 1 who left and came back. Garner provides some hope at least.
I think it’s fair to correct someone who moans about we never do this and that we. Do you wish me to go further back in time, Best, Charlton, Edwards for example, or maybe I could mention Ravel who was a nailed on star if not for being fecked in the head? Compared to our domestic rivals we’re doing great.
Pogba was poached at a young age, as was Gavi by Barca, as was Mejbri.We even bid for Fati not that long ago, bought Amad, the list goes on. Denying facts is just asking to be corrected. United have long been interested in youth prospects and are investing in improving that area of the club.
Or are some fans just annoyed we haven’t signed the latest shiny new toy off the Barca production line? As we seem to be getting them from Real.
 

Giggsy13

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I think it’s fair to correct someone who moans about we never do this and that we. Do you wish me to go further back in time, Best, Charlton, Edwards for example, or maybe I could mention Ravel who was a nailed on star if not for being fecked in the head? Compared to our domestic rivals we’re doing great.
Pogba was poached at a young age, as was Gavi by Barca, as was Mejbri.We even bid for Fati not that long ago, bought Amad, the list goes on. Denying facts is just asking to be corrected. United have long been interested in youth prospects and are investing in improving that area of the club.
Or are some fans just annoyed we haven’t signed the latest shiny new toy off the Barca production line? As we seem to be getting them from Real.
Wasn’t looking for a history lesson. Other than maybe Garner who in our academy NOW offers the hope and potential of a Pedri or Gavi?
 

Red_toad

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Wasn’t looking for a history lesson. Other than maybe Garner who in our academy NOW offers the hope and potential of a Pedri or Gavi?
Shall we bring up Rooney jr who’s hitting the goal trail… Or Adam Berry who looks superb. Garner is 20 so certainly no longer an academy player. United always have hope, there are plenty of excellent prospects, but fans think they should be like Rooney and just be ready for the Premier League at 17. You don’t see that, that’s your issue.
 

golden_blunder

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I really didn’t mean it as a moan. Thanks for reminding me of the transfers from over a decade ago though. Very helpful.
In fairness we have a wealth of ballers who will get their chance when the time is right.
Youngsters at Barca are getting their chance now for obvious reasons
You need to have patience
Btw our squad size is not unlimited, we can’t sign every talented youth
 

FatTails

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I think it’s fair to correct someone who moans about we never do this and that we. Do you wish me to go further back in time, Best, Charlton, Edwards for example, or maybe I could mention Ravel who was a nailed on star if not for being fecked in the head? Compared to our domestic rivals we’re doing great.
Pogba was poached at a young age, as was Gavi by Barca, as was Mejbri.We even bid for Fati not that long ago, bought Amad, the list goes on. Denying facts is just asking to be corrected. United have long been interested in youth prospects and are investing in improving that area of the club.
Or are some fans just annoyed we haven’t signed the latest shiny new toy off the Barca production line? As we seem to be getting them from Real.
You’re still insisting that I am moaning. Do you know something about me that I don’t know about myself?