Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay

[Dancfc]

It’s not up to you (or anyone else) to decide whether a gay footballer should or shouldn’t come out but there are plenty of good reasons why they might want to (see above)

Fair enough I'll rephrase to they should only make the announcement if they feel like it's right for them.

Either way I stick by my point in general, regarding your post above no player should be having their sexuality assumed either way because unless they're doing an Adam Johnson it's literally none of the general public's business.

 

[Spaghetti]

I think the majority of people don’t give a feck if people are gay these days.

I think it will be a lot longer before “gay” is no longer used as an insult between straight men, though.

 

[Tom Cato]

I think the majority of people don’t give a feck if people are gay these days.

I think it will be a lot longer before “gay” is no longer used as an insult between straight men, though.

The only people who "care" are conservative christians, ie. the most casually evil people alive - or actual bigots.

Unfortunately, these shitty loudmouths are the same people who cause problems on stadiums and run their mouth on social media. The vast majority of people don't care and would genuinely support any player who came out as gay. But even if it's only 0.1% of fans who would give players shit, that's still tens of thousands of people, many of whom are very happy to go online and let the world know what kind of backwater hillbilly they are.

 

[King Kay]

The only people who "care" are conservative christians, ie. the most casually evil people alive - or actual bigots.

Unfortunately, these shitty loudmouths are the same people who cause problems on stadiums and run their mouth on social media. The vast majority of people don't care and would genuinely support any player who came out as gay. But even if it's only 0.1% of fans who would give players shit, that's still tens of thousands of people, many of whom are very happy to go online and let the world know what kind of backwater hillbilly they are.

And they say there is nothing like hate speech. Does this qualify?

 

[Tom Cato]

And they say there is nothing like hate speech. Does this qualify?

Are you taking my post as hate speech? Towards bigots?

 

[King Kay]

Are you taking my post as hate speech? Towards bigots?

Your post, by 2021 standards, is hate speech towards Christians. Replace “conservative christians” with any other demographic and tell me you'd feel comfortable making that post again, but I guess they don't have a ‘phobia’ attached to their religion yet so they are fair game?

 

[SalfordRed18]

The only people who "care" are conservative christians, ie. the most casually evil people alive - or actual bigots.

Unfortunately, these shitty loudmouths are the same people who cause problems on stadiums and run their mouth on social media. The vast majority of people don't care and would genuinely support any player who came out as gay. But even if it's only 0.1% of fans who would give players shit, that's still tens of thousands of people, many of whom are very happy to go online and let the world know what kind of backwater hillbilly they are.

Sweeping.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It's pretty obvious why nobody comes out publicly, they'd be absolutely ridiculed on the terraces unfortunately.

I think if it was to happen it shouldn't be 1 man alone, hopefully a group of them can get together and share the burden. I'd hope once the initial piss taking was over most people wouldn't care in the future.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's pretty obvious why nobody comes out pubically, they'd be absolutely ridiculed on the terraces unfortunately.

I think if it was to happen it shouldn't be 1 man alone, hopefully a group of them can get together and share the burden. I'd hope once the initial piss taking was over most people wouldn't care in the future.

I mean, they deserve to be ridiculed if they come out showing their pubes.

 

[Tom Cato]

Your post, by 2021 standards, is hate speech towards Christians. Replace “conservative christians” with any other demographic and tell me you'd feel comfortable making that post again, but I guess they don't have a ‘phobia’ attached to their religion yet so they are fair game?

Not Christians. Convervative Christians. The kind of people who hate in the name of their savior.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I mean, they deserve to be ridiculed if they come out showing their pubes.

I better edit that one

 

[Dave Smith]

Don't care if anyone is gay or not and it is not something that I judge a person by. Personally, not sure why a person has to 'come out' publicly. A players sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with their job.

Only reason why people want to know is because they are;

A) The type that can use it as a string to their political posts and/or build the person up as a role model (even though that player may not want that responsibility.)

B) A sad curtain twitching type who want a bit of gossip as they're own lives are so sad they haven't got better things to do.

C) Insecure people who would try to use the information as a means to abuse the person.

Either way, absolutely none of anybodies business.

 

[Cloud7]

Your post, by 2021 standards, is hate speech towards Christians. Replace “conservative christians” with any other demographic and tell me you'd feel comfortable making that post again, but I guess they don't have a ‘phobia’ attached to their religion yet so they are fair game?

Tell us more about how victimized and oppressed conservative christians are

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I’m gonna hold my hands up and say this might be total BS (as I’m not a scientist or medical expert) but could there also be a hormonal factor as to why there are (apparently) no gay male footballers, but seemingly a lot of gay women in football?

 

[stw2022]

The only people who "care" are conservative christians

The casual homophobia of factories, building sites and offices disagrees

 

[BD]

I don't understand any of this, I couldn't care less what people do in their spare time, I find it odd that it's even a subject spoken about, why do they feel the need to "Come out" or all this other stuff, I don't come out as straight, I just live my life, it's sad there have been people/ events that make these people feel as though they need to come out at all rather than just live their life. It's not for other people to "Accept" or "Not Accept", it's their choice, they don't need validation from others, I genuinely don't understand why it's a "Thing", it shouldn't matter what everyone choses to do...

Coming out is a step to feeling accepted by family/friends/society for a lot of people. Especially after having grown up with 'being gay' as being something bad, something to be mocked for (or worse). You don't have to come out as straight, because that's the default expectation.

Sure, it'd be great if it was the case that being gay was seen as just as 'normal' as being straight, and no one felt the need to come out. But that's not at all how it is at the moment.

 

[LInkash]

I’m gonna hold my hands up and say this might be total BS (as I’m not a scientist or medical expert) but could there also be a hormonal factor as to why there are (apparently) no gay male footballers, but seemingly a lot of gay women in football?

There are some who have come out, just not at the highest level. Watch this video from Rio's Five channel.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m gonna hold my hands up and say this might be total BS (as I’m not a scientist or medical expert) but could there also be a hormonal factor as to why there are (apparently) no gay male footballers, but seemingly a lot of gay women in football?

Seems that way alright. Although I guess there could be non-hormonal reasons. Maybe men are more likely to be aggressively homophobic than women? (we know they’re more aggressive in general) Which would make male dressing rooms a much more toxic environment than female dressing rooms.

Although you can’t really discuss this without wading into a minefield about gender vs sex…

 

[HTG]

The casual homophobia of factories, building sites and offices disagrees

It’s always nice when people try to support our cause by using it to hate on other groups. Makes that „support“ pretty much meaningless.

 

[Lynty]

Couldn't careless to be honest. Not interested in footballers personal lives at all.

Would clubs be fined for fans making slightly homophobic songs? Cause that's gonna happen for sure.

 

[Maagge]

Seems that way alright. Although I guess there could be non-hormonal reasons. Maybe men are more likely to be aggressively homophobic than women? (we know they’re more aggressive in general) Which would make male dressing rooms a much more toxic environment than female dressing rooms.

Although you can’t really discuss this without wading into a minefield about gender vs sex…

You also have the fact lesbians have always been sexualised by straight men whereas gay men haven't.
I'm sure plenty of lesbians have been asked to kiss their partner on a night out by straight men whereas gay men have had abuse and worse directed at them.

So I guess lesbians have been more accepted by the patriarchy, although in a very strange and negative way.

 

[Tom Cato]

I’m gonna hold my hands up and say this might be total BS (as I’m not a scientist or medical expert) but could there also be a hormonal factor as to why there are (apparently) no gay male footballers, but seemingly a lot of gay women in football?

You have to know there are masculine gay men? Right? I guarantee there are many gay footballers in the top tiers of the English divisions.

There's been actual papers published on this subject, but the watered down version is that women and overall society are more accepting of women being gay than men are of men being gay, and that is the primary reason why its so easy for female athletes to come out as homosexual. To put it short, they don't make a fuzz out of it.

 

[Ajr]

You have to know there are masculine gay men? Right? I guarantee there are many gay footballers in the top tiers of the English divisions.

There's been actual papers published on this subject, but the watered down version is that women and overall society are more accepting of women being gay than men are of men being gay, and that is the primary reason why its so easy for female athletes to come out as homosexual. To put it short, they don't make a fuzz out of it.

It's crazy how ignorant people are, my brother was telling me that he can always tell if someone is gay or not by just telling if they are(Implying that they are all camp etc) when that is not the case at all. Unless he has some kind of gaydar and in the closet (possible)

 

[stw2022]

It’s always nice when people try to support our cause by using it to hate on other groups. Makes that, support“ pretty much meaningless.

The thing is some of the most tolerant people I know are devout/practicing (though by now they should be expert, maybe laziness?) Muslims. Where I live and work there’s a very big Muslim population. The idea religion makes people intolerant or that being religious is a sign of intolerance is nonsense.

 

[HTG]

The thing is some of the most tolerant people I know are devout/practicing (though by now they should be expert, maybe laziness?) Muslims. Where I live and work there’s a very big Muslim population. The idea religion makes people intolerant or that being religious is a sign of intolerance is nonsense.

Made the same experience. Some of the worst homophobes I’ve encountered in my life were left leaning and progressive people. People who blame certain groups for homophobia usually just want another reason to justify their hatred towards that group.

 

[RUCK4444]

The thing is some of the most tolerant people I know are devout/practicing (though by now they should be expert, maybe laziness?) Muslims. Where I live and work there’s a very big Muslim population. The idea religion makes people intolerant or that being religious is a sign of intolerance is nonsense.

I agree.

When you believe in something you appreciate what it can take for somebody else to do the same. Even if it’s something entirely different to your own faith.

 

[Toad]

I think the majority of people don’t give a feck if people are gay these days.

I think it will be a lot longer before “gay” is no longer used as an insult between straight men, though.

I very rarely hear the term but when I do it makes me cringe thinking someone has actually used that as an insult. It’s not even an insult to call someone gay, it’s very small minded.

 

[Needham]

Won't the vaccine passport make this whole topic redundant?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

The thing is some of the most tolerant people I know are devout/practicing (though by now they should be expert, maybe laziness?) Muslims. Where I live and work there’s a very big Muslim population. The idea religion makes people intolerant or that being religious is a sign of intolerance is nonsense.

The idea that, at least the Abrahamic religions, have unambiguously intolerant guidance and statements in their holy books and that a good proportion of those believers adhere to these teachings of intolerance is indisputable.

This includes Islam and absolutely also includes the position that homosexuality is wrong.

This does not mean that all religious people choose to follow those parts of their text or are anything other than welcoming but it clearly does not make it nonsense that LGBQT people might view religious institutions and even individuals with wariness.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I agree.

When you believe in something you appreciate what it can take for somebody else to do the same. Even if it’s something entirely different to your own faith.

Are you seriously stating that because a person believes in something they are likely to be more tolerant of others who believe things even if those beliefs vary hugely from their own beliefs? That is demonstrably false: see every political, religious or ideological dispute ever.

 

[stw2022]

Some people lean on religion to excuse bigotry, some people lean on ‘shirtlifters, fecking wrong mate’ who likely have never stepped foot in place of worship

 

[Chairman Steve]

Can anyone see an active footballer in the Premier League coming out as gay now, especially after the PL have no problems with the Saudi Arabia takeover of Newcastle? The Premier League are going to look hypocritical to the max whenever they do something akin to rainbow laces next.

“We’re pro-LGBT+ but we’ll welcome in people who’ll execute you for being that”

So it feels like the PL have shot themselves in the foot on that one and should be crucified for it.

 

[RUCK4444]

Are you seriously stating that because a person believes in something they are likely to be more tolerant of others who believe things even if those beliefs vary hugely from their own beliefs? That is demonstrably false: see every political, religious or ideological dispute ever.

I'm talking from my own experience of it.

In my own experience by far the most intolerable and offensive people I've come across, in respect to religion, have been those who have no faith and claim that by having one you are by default an idiot. Having experienced that a lot it creates a respect for others who are perhaps even more devout in their own beliefs. Many work colleagues and friends of mine are Muslim, nothing in my belief system instructs me to dislike them or resent them in any way and I don't.

The obvious point here is everybody is different, that is clearly a wasted notion on somebody like yourself who clearly thinks that by being religious by default makes you a bigot and intolerable of others, there is a kind of idiotic irony in that mindset tbh.

Your being ridiculously sweeping with your statement above. It's a narrow mindset that ignores the fact the world, or large portions of it, are far more accepting and cosmopolitan than they were in the past when your generalisation would have been slightly more fitting. I think the portion of the population you are trying to label are in fact racists, not religious people and no, they are not the same thing.

 

[King Kay]

Tell us more about how victimized and oppressed conservative christians are

It's a fun party, just let them in already.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I'm talking from my own experience of it.

In my own experience by far the most intolerable and offensive people I've come across, in respect to religion, have been those who have no faith and claim that by having one you are by default an idiot. Having experienced that a lot it creates a respect for others who are perhaps even more devout in their own beliefs. Many work colleagues and friends of mine are Muslim, nothing in my belief system instructs me to dislike them or resent them in any way and I don't.

The obvious point here is everybody is different, that is clearly a wasted notion on somebody like yourself who clearly thinks that by being religious by default makes you a bigot and intolerable of others, there is a kind of idiotic irony in that mindset tbh.

Your being ridiculously sweeping with your statement above. It's a narrow mindset that ignores the fact the world, or large portions of it, are far more accepting and cosmopolitan than they were in the past when your generalisation would have been slightly more fitting. I think the portion of the population you are trying to label are in fact racists, not religious people and no, they are not the same thing.

Horribly off topic post but this slur cannot stand unanswered.

My point was neither about religion discretely nor was it sweeping. It is demonstrably not the case that belief in something inherently makes a person more tolerant of other beliefs. Would that it were so and the World would be a better place.

Nothing I have said, either in the post you are responding nor my other post in this thread which addressed the point that it is not nonsensical of LGBQT people to be wary of adherents of Abrahamic faiths given the tenets within the religious texts of those faiths, in anyway justifies your statement that I believe that being religious makes you by default intolerant or a bigot. It is an utterly false, baseless and, frankly, rather insulting accusation. The only irony here is the assumption that you have chosen to make regarding my mindset and, indeed soecifically, the, as you so tolerantly put it, the "idiotic irony" of that assumption.

The fact that many people of all faiths and none can be both tolerant and intolerant is both obvious and not disputed in any post made by me ever, nor by any other post in this thread.

I do, however, dispute that:
i) It is not nonsense to be aware of organised Abrahamic religions attitudes to homosexuality and LGBQT people given that position taken on this matter by many denominations of those religions and, by extension, many, but clearly not all, of the adherents to those religions factions.
ii) Whilst you may bond over the shared act of belief with others it is clearly false that having beliefs, in a religion or any other ideology, inherently or in general results in understanding or tolerance of other differing beliefs. The long and bloody history of conflicts fought over deeply and sincerely held conflicting beliefs, religious or otherwise, is testament to this.

 

[RUCK4444]

Horribly off topic post but this slur cannot stand unanswered.

My point was neither about religion discretely nor was it sweeping. It is demonstrably not the case that belief in something inherently makes a person more tolerant of other beliefs. Would that it were so and the World would be a better place.

Nothing I have said, either in the post you are responding nor my other post in this thread which addressed the point that it is not nonsensical of LGBQT people to be wary of adherents of Abrahamic faiths given the tenets within the religious texts of those faiths, in anyway justifies your statement that I believe that being religious makes you by default intolerant or a bigot. It is an utterly false, baseless and, frankly, rather insulting accusation. The only irony here is the assumption that you have chosen to make regarding my mindset and, indeed soecifically, the, as you so tolerantly put it, the "idiotic irony" of that assumption.

The fact that many people of all faiths and none can be both tolerant and intolerant is both obvious and not disputed in any post made by me ever, nor by any other post in this thread.

I do, however, dispute that:
i) It is not nonsense to be aware of organised Abrahamic religions attitudes to homosexuality and LGBQT people given that position taken on this matter by many denominations of those religions and, by extension, many, but clearly not all, of the adherents to those religions factions.
ii) Whilst you may bond over the shared act of belief with others it is clearly false that having beliefs, in a religion or any other ideology, inherently or in general results in understanding or tolerance of other differing beliefs. The long and bloody history of conflicts fought over deeply and sincerely held conflicting beliefs, religious or otherwise, is testament to this.

Ok you’ve gone off on a tangent. I posted my own experience and you replied to tell me I was incorrect because religious people are not tolerant of other beliefs.

Not sure how else I was expected to read your initial reply. Simple really.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Ok you’ve gone off on a tangent. I posted my own experience and you replied to tell me I was incorrect because religious people are not tolerant of other beliefs.

Not sure how else I was expected to read your initial reply. Simple really.

No I did not do any of those things.

You have transferred all manner of assumptions onto a post making a general point about beliefs not inherently engendering tolerance in other beliefs, which specifically states not just religious beliefs, as a statement that all religious beliefs are intolerant and some sort of attack on your personal experience. The fact that this belief tolerance based on a shared experience if believing exists for you does not make that a position universally shared. That was the gist of it.

You were expected to read my initial reply based on the words contained therein. Notably the final sentence which clearly notes belief systems that are not religious were being discussed. This may have prevented you deciding to infer that I am an intolerant bigot based on feck all.

 

[calodo2003]

I agree.

When you believe in something you appreciate what it can take for somebody else to do the same. Even if it’s something entirely different to your own faith.

Not quite.

 

[Dante]

Won't the vaccine passport make this whole topic redundant?

Took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Gandalf]

I don't understand any of this, I couldn't care less what people do in their spare time, I find it odd that it's even a subject spoken about, why do they feel the need to "Come out" or all this other stuff, I don't come out as straight, I just live my life, it's sad there have been people/ events that make these people feel as though they need to come out at all rather than just live their life. It's not for other people to "Accept" or "Not Accept", it's their choice, they don't need validation from others, I genuinely don't understand why it's a "Thing", it shouldn't matter what everyone choses to do...

It is primarily a thing because despite all the positive messages in this thread it is still not considered normal or acceptable by a great many of the general public. In the excessively macho world of sports it is even less accepted and this is demonstrated time and again by the chants from the terraces at practically every fecking game. In many countries more and more hardline regimes are criminalizing gay lifestlyes and the behavior for example of the Hungarian fans recently demonstrates that this actually is popular with the majority and not an extreme point of view. We can all chat on a message board about our enlightened views and how great it is that a classroom of 11 year olds are so progressive and accepting in their views but we are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think that reflects the views and experiences of the majority.

Coming out serves a personal purpose, doesn't need to be dramatic but as mentioned above you are assumed straight until you say otherwise and therefore you come out so that every aspect of your life can be lived openly. If you are a celebrity then there is also a societal reason to come out, you are idolised rightly or wrongly for your fame and therefore by making that statement you contribute in a small way to normalizing queer behaviour and you make it that little bit easier for younger people struggling with their sexuality to feel comfortable living openly. In the case of football it is statistically obvious there are hundreds of gay players in the professional game in Europe and yet you cannot name one because they are all too afraid to be out and that is and always has been a problem.