Best himself said Busby did everything possible to help him. Best was an addict and some people don't want help
George Best At His Brilliant Best
- Thread starter harms
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People can correct me if I am wrong, but after reading through our history during that period, I felt that Sir Matt and the group lost motivation after 1968. They wanted that European cup so badly after the tragedy of 1958, that after scaling the summit, there was nothing left for them to achieve.
And Sir Matt was old as well at that point. If he had been younger, I am sure he would have protected Best a lot more.
Brilliant!
The complete footballer.
The complete footballer.
Read through the thread from first to the last post, enjoyed it quite a bit.
I remember buying a movie on a dvd called "Best" when I was a kid, I knew he was one of the best players from the past but didn't know his story quite well until I watched it for the first time.
Looking back at it, I'm not sure how I, a kid from Serbia, got to love United from age of 8 and also wanted to learn about history of the club at such a young age, because there weren't older people who would tell me the stories and get me interested. I remember that Munich story had quite an impact on me back then, especially as it happened after a game against Red Star Belgrade which is the team I supported since my earliest memories and that one was cuz of my environment.
Anyway, thanks for the effort @harms, it brought a lot of stories here for us to share, read and enjoy.
I remember buying a movie on a dvd called "Best" when I was a kid, I knew he was one of the best players from the past but didn't know his story quite well until I watched it for the first time.
Looking back at it, I'm not sure how I, a kid from Serbia, got to love United from age of 8 and also wanted to learn about history of the club at such a young age, because there weren't older people who would tell me the stories and get me interested. I remember that Munich story had quite an impact on me back then, especially as it happened after a game against Red Star Belgrade which is the team I supported since my earliest memories and that one was cuz of my environment.
Anyway, thanks for the effort @harms, it brought a lot of stories here for us to share, read and enjoy.
Thanks for this. Well done for not picking YouTube music. This was a delight.
From what Ive read Busby is rightly credited with being the originator of the idea of bringing "kids" into a football club and creating a tailored coaching scheme to help them develop and progress within a "family" atmosphere. Kids arrived at united from all over the country and by the early 50s Busby and Jimmy Murphy had the best young players in England. But before Busby United had always been a club prepared to give youth its chance, but he took this to the next level and the Busby Babes were the end product. As you say, he created the blueprint every football club would follow to some degree or other. Jimmy Murphy and Joe Armstrong were both hugely responsible for making Busbys idea work and Busby often said his greatest signing was Jimmy Murphy. When Fergie arrived the youth scheme was still in operation but not like before, he revitalized it along the lines of Busby, Murphy and Armstrong and produced the Class of 92. And of course, the "conveyor belt" of young players is still evident today.
I have never been as polite about Piers as that... and I once had the very great misfortune to be in an office with him!
That said, George's 11 seasons: those were very different times and I also watched him a lot. He really didn't play out wide in the sense that later wingers at United did. In fact, he roamed around and more often than not moved out wide to be in space and cut in from there (not unlike Jake Grealish who many here don't want at United for some reason).
Their strike rate is not all that different but Ronaldo scored only 50 fewer goals in (about) half as many games. Also, and it always breaks my heart to say it, George pretty much f@cked up his career and in his final two season was almost completely ineffective, scoring a total of just six league goals. I remember being at a few games in 1974 when, looking back, it was obvious that he was to so much hungover as still drunk.
On the other hand, I first saw him live in 1968 when he was a bloody genius and none of this should be seen as an attack on George - he had an illness. But Ronaldo, on the other hand, continues to look fit and score goals at the age of 36. To me, not just United's greatest player ever (sadly I am just a bit too young to have seen Duncan Edwards) but the greatest of all time anywhere (and I did see Pele, although never live in a competitive game)
Great video @harms Lovely music choice too
Fantastic control of the ball at pace is far more indicative of skill than reproducing a practiced trick. Plenty of mediocre players can pull off stepovers, flip-flaps and the like.
Pele - Good
Maradona - Better
George Best
Maradona - Better
George Best
I remember reading in a book that Best in retrospect thought he should have gone to play abroad after Busby retired as that may have reinvigorated him. There were offers from Spain (Madrid were looking for a new DiStefano or Puskas) and especially from Juventus. John Charles advised him to go because he would be paid a lot more and treated like a king over there (Charles said that when he was playing in Turin he never carried much cash around with him because no one would ever let him pay for anything).
He decided against it though because he didn’t want to leave Manchester United. He saw himself as fundamentally a one club man (sadly ironic as he ended up playing for loads of clubs). Also he had no inclination to learn another language.
He was also depressed by the rise of Johan Cruyff in the 70s as Man United declined. He thought he was a better player than Cruyff and reasoned that it should have been Ajax v Man United in the European Cup final, not Ajax v Panathinaikos. It irked him whenever he would hear Cruyff referred to as the best player in the world.
That’s why he was so eager to prove a point in the international match (Holland v NI in 1976) when he helped NI get a surprise draw against the mighty Dutch. Before the game a journalist suggested Cruyff might be better, so Best said he would nutmeg Cruyff at the earliest opportunity. Then he did exactly that about 5 minutes into the game.
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Everything might have been different if we hadn't been cheated in the 69 European Cup semi final second leg v AC Milan and the dodgy ref. Milan won 2-0 in Italy in a very physical match. At Old Trafford it was another tough game but United started to get on top and Charlton scored in the 70th minute, and moments laterPat Crerand played the ball into the six yard box and Denis Law put it in the net, but as he turned away, fist raised in the air, an AC defender scooped the ball out and back into play....and despite the fact the ball was at least 3 feet over the goal line, the ref disallowed it! Quote from Pat Crerand - “Even if it hadn’t been a goal, it would have been a penalty because Anquilletti used his hand to pull it back,” said Crerand, still fuming 50 years later. But the French referee, Roger Machin, waved away the furious protests and allowed play to continue. United would go out 2-1 on aggregate." Quote from Denis Law interview - “The ball was in,” said Law. “The referee and the linesman must have been the only people who didn’t see the ball going over the line. There always seemed to be question marks… always seemed to be a bit of a problem with Italian teams. If it had been given we would have gone on to beat Milan and we would have gone on to win the European Cup." From Jim Whites book United - The Biography - “The goalscorer (Law) wheeled away, finger in the air, the Lawman of old. But the referee wasn’t in Rochdale. He was officiating on a different planet and the goal was ruled out.” “Even if it hadn’t been a goal, it would have been a penalty because Anquilletti used his hand to pull it back,” said Crerand, still fuming 50 years later. But the French referee, Roger Machin, waved away the furious protests and allowed play to continue. United would go out 2-1 on aggregate.
Milan defeated Ajax in the final, but Ajax were nowhere near the team they would become. This was Sir Matts last European game and he stepped down as Manager at the end of the 68/69 season. A couple of years later AC Milan were found guilty of numerous acts of bribing officials and banned from European football for a number of years. A second European Cup was ours for the taking but we were cheated; things might have turned out very differently for both United and Bestie!
That was a good read. Didn’t know about any of that…….
Not sure if that is the case. About losing motivation I mean. We did get to the semi the following year and were unlucky to lose out to AC.
We definitely failed to strengthen the side when we needed to. Something I believe disillusioned George and played a part in his decline.
When a great team reaches its goal and wins whatever its not the case that they have nothing left to achieve. They do. They can strive to win it again. And again.
The absolute hatchet job of some of these tackles.
Most of these attacks have 3/4 tackles that would be called for yellows now a days.
Most of these attacks have 3/4 tackles that would be called for yellows now a days.
Sir Matt changing the keeper didn't help either.
Yeah, even in the late 70’s, when he reflected on his last years at United, he said that his performances didn’t decline as much as his teammates’ did, which seriously put him off — and that was true, at least for some time.
Charlton & Law were ageing, the latter especially, sometimes being unable to perform at the level that was expected of them. Kidd didn’t quite develop into a player of their caliber. Morgan was one of the outstanding performers from that time, but ultimately he was a bit limited. The less said about our defense, the better.
I’m assuming he means tricks or dribbling moves/feints like rabonas, stepovers, elasticos etc.
They all existed back then, the Brazilians were doing them for example.
Jimmy Rimmer was in goal for both games. We lost 2-0 in Milan but Ive never heard anybody blame Rimmer; we won the second leg 1-0
If Messi hasn't proven that none of that is necessary I am.not sure what will. Looks good on a compilation the first few times, rarely actually effective on the pitch.
Some great players use them, some great players don’t. I don’t think it’s a case of necessary or unnecessary, just a matter of style.
Fair enough but I have my doubts on their practical effectiveness, probably from years of always playing with guys who wanted to do tricks constantly but were actually rubbish footballers when you took a step back. Everyone has played with that guy who tries 20 nutmegs a game, gets 1 or 2 and ignores the rest.
You can be a great dribbler and not use or not be great at tricks, but being great at tricks is no guarantee of being able to dribble effectively.
Depay at Utd is an example, tons of flashy tricks in his bag, bang average dribbler for the most part.
I meant skill moves as in tricks as in for instance elastico.
Mind you I’m not saying he should have used those, and I obviously agree with you @Bobski that his style of dribbling requires far more skill than ‘skill moves’, I was just pointing it out that his style was interesting because you rarely see that type of dribbling being used exclusively nowadays. Usually players today need more variation, unless of course one has extreme agility, balance, speed and close control like Adama who I likened him to, or Messi.
Messi was not quicker than Best and I am a massive fan of Messi.
If Best is going to be compared to anyone it would be Ronnie as both have being two footed, very quick, good in the air and could play anywhere in the forward line in common.
The first "step over" I ever saw, or remember seeing, was around 1970 and was performed by one of the games masters at my old school, Mr Couchman, who was Canadian! Mr Couchman used to run the school football teams, from the first years up to the seniors, and despite the fact that he was a right bastard who would kick us for no reason, we all liked him lol! Many years later I found out he was living just around the corner from me and we became friends, and he told me that he had never liked football at all!
Bestie had an incredible change of pace.
Well yeah but on the flip side you have Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Neymar, Pele, Rivelino etc who all used them and who are all great dribblers. I agree that you don’t have to use them to be an outstanding dribbler, but they’re definitely effective when used by people who know when, where and how to use them.
Odd
Pat Jennings was no slouch either. Bobby made the third goal too. I was in the Stretford Paddock that day and got a great view of all the goals. Couldn't believe it when Jennings scored, and I don't think he could either. The Scoreboard End, which was open to the elements at the time, let out groan when it went in. Did you ever go in there? We arrived late for a game against Forest, and a copper on duty told us the Stretford End was locked and sent us to the Scoreboard. The weather was foul and we got soaked to the skin.
Matt tried everything to protect him, but he couldn't protect him from himself. You could walk past his boutique in Manchester and there would always be a crowd of girls outside waiting for him to appear. Everyone wanted a piece of George Best. Also Matt was pretty much all-in after 1968. He'd achieved his ambition and didn't have it in him to build another team. Best carried an aging side pretty much by himself. Law was often injured and the rest were getting on a bit.
ThTs what I thought having seen both live. I wasn’t going to argue with him out of respect
I disagree, Best is much more similar in style to Messi than he is to Ronaldo IMO. Best was more 2 footed than Messi in terms of shooting, but their dribbling is similar. CR is different by virtue of being a lot taller than the other two (so he doesn’t have that low centre of gravity) and also because he used a lot more tricks (back in the days when he used to dribble a lot).
I’d also guess that Best never became as much of a penalty box player as CR did in his later Madrid years.
Maybe people just didn’t know what to do at the time? I mean it was all pretty new, the phenomenon he created.
Probably so. The Beatles, the Stones, and others all had crowds of screaming girls following them around. Best was pursued by girls, the press, and a whole host of hangers-on. It was a very 60s thing. Plus his mum was an alcoholic too. When Tommy Doc brought him back into the fold, he made him bunk at Paddy Crerand's home in the hope that a stable family environment would help. It didn't. We have come a long way since then in recognizing substance abuse issues and treating them, but in those days, a visit to AA was pretty much all that was on offer. It got to the point that he couldn't go outside without some nutter wanting to fight him, or some girl wanting to bed him.
I watched from there a couple of times several years back, once by choice, I seem to remember, not a wise choice as the weather in Manchester can be abysmal! I didnt go to Old Trafford for that Charity Shield match though.
Absolutely. I think everyone there at the time was just baffled as to how to handle it all, most of all Best of course. Even something like footballers advertising products was in its infancy then. It’s a different world now.
He never really had the chance to as he was basically retired by the time he was 27 and the rest was just start stop with stints in the US and lower leagues.
I think an argument could be made that his style of play was a hybrid of Ronnie and Messi but the guy was just sensational.
He had his own brand of boots that laced on the side. All the kids wanted a pair. He advertised eggs on the telly too.
Standing right behind the goal in the Stretford End was bad too. You got rained on, rivers of piss ran down from the back, and any missiles like sharpened pennies and fag ends that fell short would land on you. Again Milan in the semi-final in 1969, a kid near me got hit with something that knocked him down and he was laid on on the side of the pitch by the St. Johns. They had to stop the game to clear the goalmouth.