George Floyd | Chauvin guilty on all counts | Sentenced to 22.5 years

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Also, found this transcript interesting - from the video shown on Day 2 (?) of the full interaction. My hearing's not the best so it helped me.

These first 10-15 minutes are obviously crucial for the cases of both parties.

I'll spoiler for length in case anyone wants to read it:

Spoiler

Angle 1 1:40
Police approach George Floyd's car. He's with Morries Hall - who's alleged by both the prosecution and defence to be the man George Floyd was buying drugs off in Cup Foods that day.
The interaction between police and Hall is relatively cordial.

Angle 1 1:49
Floyd asked to put his hands up. Appears to refuse

Angle 2 32:18
The 'Hands' interaction from a better angle. This is apparently the moment that Floyd takes whatever drugs he had on him. The court was presented with still images which show this moment more clearly.

Angle 1 3:38
Police attempt to cuff Floyd but are met with some resistance. Floyd says 'I don't want to go back' lending credence to the defence's claims that he believes he's being arrested on drug charges, rather than forgery.

Angle 1 4:04-4:12
"We're trying to get you out of the street so you don't get hit by a car" - Chauvin's voice

Angle 1 4:19
"Take a seat. Sit down for me"

Angle 1 4:34
Questioning. "Have you got an ID.", "What's your name man", "Spell it for me", "Date of Birth".

Angle 1 5:12
Cop asks colleague for Floyd's details to be run

Angle 1 5:19
Floyd: "I didn't even do nothing". Cop: "Do you know why we're here? We're here because it sounds like you gave a fake bill to the individuals in there" At this point George Floyd seems surprised. Again, it appears he believed until this point he was being arrested on drug charges

Angle 1 5:30
After learning that it's not drug charges, Floyd seems calmer in his interaction.
Cop "Do you know why we pulled you out of the car? Because you were not listening to anything we told you." Floyd "I didn't know what was going on" Cop: "When you listen to us we'll tell you what's going on. When you're moving around like that, it makes us think way more is going on than we need to know."

Angle 1 5:41
For the first time Floyd begins severely stuttering his words. We're right around 4 minutes out from the time he appeared to swallow handfuls of drugs. He's completely illegible at points.

Angle 1 6:07
After being helped to stand up, Floyd reaches cuffed arms sideways towards pocket. Cuffs are on very loosely and Officer Thomas Lane comments: "Wow, look it...you're still able to reach your side. You're making me nervous. We'll fix all that, but you gotta walk with me"

Angle 1 6:17
Floyd begins to make pained sounds. It doesn't appear to be from being walked to the car or any external force as nothing significant is happening.

Angle 1 6:19
Cop "Are you on something right now, because you're acting real erratic. Second cop: "You've got foam around your mouth too"

Angle 1 6:41
Floyd's agitation increasing severely. Side effects of methamphetamine or opiate overdose: feeling of impending doom, agitation, aggressiveness, foaming at the mouth, chest pain, chest tightness, coma and unresponsiveness, heart attack, difficulty breathing, irregular or stopped heartbeat, fever, paranoia, severe stomach pain, stroke.

Angle 1 6:51
Floyd continues acting extremely agitated. Cop to partner, in front of cop car: "Unlock the door for me". Floyd drops to his knees upon hearing this. Cop "Stand up, cmon stop falling down". Floyd shouting but unintelligble.

Angle 1 6:59
Cop: "Stay on your feet and face the car door" Floyd continues showing extreme signs of agitation. Screaming "Please man" repeatedly, apparently because he doesn't want to go in the car.

Angle 1 7:37
Cops search Floyd before trying to place him into car. Floyd repeats the phrase "I'm not that kind of guy" in a frenzied way. Huge difference from the relatively much calmer interactions just 3 minutes ago.

Angle 1 7:45
Floyd "Don't leave me by myself man. It's claustrophobic." First mention of claustrophobia from Floyd. He's still standing outside. No suggestion of him being left alone. Chest tightness, feelings of impending doom and irregular heartbeat - symptoms of meth or opiate intoxication - can all produce a claustrophobic feeling.

Angle 1 8:25
Floyd severely stuttering now. "I understand that people do stuff and y'all don't know me" Car door is opened now. Cop "Take a seat" Floyd bends down but won't move. Cop: "Now you're having trouble walking" Floyd repeatedly told to "take a seat" but forcibly resists repeatedly insisting "I'm not that kind of guy"

Angle 1 8:49
Floyd, who's still trying to force his way out of the car: "I'mma die man" Cop: "You need to take a seat right now" Floyd: "I just had COVID man" Cop: "Listen, listen, I'm going to roll the windows down. I'll roll the windows down, just put your legs in. I'll put the air on"

Angle 1 9:04
Floyd fully agitated now, won't cooperate, seems short of breath when speaking, voice has changed. We're now 7:30 out from him allegedly swallowing methamphetamines and fentanyl. Floyd repeats "I don't want y'all to win"

Angle 1 9:17
Floyd: "I'm claustrophobic, I've got anxiety" Cop: "I'm going to roll the window down" Floyd: "Man I'm scared as feck man." Derek Chauvin's voice is heard saying "That's OK...you made a mistake."
Fear of impending doom is one of the major methamphetamine overdose symptoms. At this point, it's fair to say that the cops have been very cordial with Floyd...yet his anxiety and resistance is going up and up. Again, methamphetamine overdose causes rapid heart rate and constricted breathing, which feels like an anxiety attack.

Angle 1 9:24
Floyd visibly chest breathing, states "When I start breathing it's gonna go off on me man".

Angle 1 9:42
Floyd "Don't do me like this man" - nothing is happening as he says this. Cops still strying to get Floyd into the car. Cop: "If you get in this car we can talk" Floyd "I'm claustrophobic, I'm claustrophobic man". Floyd again visibly foaming at the mouth.

Angle 1 9:57
Cops been trying to persuade him to go into the car for over a minute and a half now. Still resisting but interaction becoming more forceful as Floyd insists "I'm not a bad guy". Cops now try to physically put Floyd in the car. Floyd screams. Says "I can't breathe." as they're trying to get him in. Lots of screaming.

Angle 1 10:25
Floyd's finally in the car, but it doesn't last for long as he tries to force his way out the opposite door. Two cops are there trying to keep him in. Floyd still screaming. Appears to aim a kick at the cops at 10:35

Angle 1 10:42
Cop "Get in the squad (car)" Floyd: "I'm not gonna do it" Cop: "Bro you're gonna die of a heart attack" Floyd: "I know, I can't breathe". Floyd's still fighting with the two cops at the passenger door, trying to force his way out.

Angle 1 10:56
Somehow Floyd's almost out of the car again. Floyd "Let go of me man. I can't breathe." Cop "Take a seat" Floyd "I can't fecking breathe". At this point the cops give up. One says "OK, come on out"

The defence will no doubt point to both Chauvin interactions with Floyd here being cordial - which eats away at any 'intent' arguement, needed for the murder charges.
They'll also hone in on the overdose indications - Floyd saying he couldn't breathe while standing by himself outside, foaming at the mouth, feelings of impending doom (saying he was going to die while still outside) etc.

An OD doesn't need to be a death sentence though. The police were all trained in CPR and First Aid - yet instead apparently chose to wait on EMTs coming while doing worse than nothing.

 

[WI_Red]

I understand all the legalities surrounding the case, but when I try to squeeze the whole thing, all that comes out is that those 12 people saw a man murder another man and now they are being asked if that's really what happened. It is, they saw it. Now the question is, will the defence confuse them enough or not. It's how the system works, I get it, and it's probably the best system we have right now, but in a case like this it's a hard pill for me to swallow.

In my country 50% of republicans now believe 1/6 was not violent and/or the violence was caused by antifa. Messaging, stupidity, hatred, fear, and prejudice will let people believe whatever makes them feel "right". Never underestimate the abomination that is humanity.

 

[Sky1981]

I understand all the legalities surrounding the case, but when I try to squeeze the whole thing, all that comes out is that those 12 people saw a man murder another man and now they are being asked if that's really what happened. It is, they saw it. Now the question is, will the defence confuse them enough or not. It's how the system works, I get it, and it's probably the best system we have right now, but in a case like this it's a hard pill for me to swallow.

We are looking at it from a different world, we have to factor in the american gun culture, racist bias (yes, I believe the jurors have some racist views that swings either way), their justice system and the conditioning that the juror has, not to mention there will be some outspoken juror that will shape the verdict, and personal interaction of each juror. For example, if a white man got Mugged by a black men it'll leave a lasting impression, the same if the white man has a black best friend or benefactor (I know, it's cliche) but every jurors perception is partial and can't be expected to be 100% impartial. And this incidents have 2 sets of narratives depending on which side you're on.

TBF the media also played their part, they redacted or not showing the first half of the videos where the cops tried to talk to George, it might now absolve them of the murder but I can understand (not condoning or agreeing) that some juror would see a different view compared to most of us. Added some narratives from witness, mind games, public pressure, peer pressure, family pressure, moral pressure etc it's not as simple as we think.

Some jurors would feel vindicated to absolve Chauvin in the name of Justice (cough... racism) some would want to see Chauvin got the chair. What's fair and what's not when 12 angry men are involved

 

[RedPed]

Day 8

 

[shamans]

I have been saying defense is strong but this Irish doctor is doing a really good job scientifically proving what happened. I believe he'll get manslaughter charges.

 

[Adisa]

Don't know how anyone can watch what I just watched and say the defense has a strong case.

 

[Grinner]

Don't know how anyone can watch what I just watched and say the defense has a strong case.

Do they need a strong case? Surely just a reasonable doubt.

 

[Maagge]

What I don't get is that if they are going with the "ah but he was OD'ing anyway" angle, surely you call an ambulance and try to stabilise him instead of sitting on his neck? Or are they past this now?

 

[matherto]

What I don't get is that if they are going with the "ah but he was OD'ing anyway" angle, surely you call an ambulance and try to stabilise him instead of sitting on his neck? Or are they past this now?

People that have been brought up to have zero empathy for anyone with drug using history in having zero empathy shocker.

Blame society for demonising drugs.

 

[calodo2003]

What I don't get is that if they are going with the "ah but he was OD'ing anyway" angle, surely you call an ambulance and try to stabilise him instead of sitting on his neck? Or are they past this now?

Or jab him with the Narcon stick that is standard issue for police in Minneapolis.

 

[2mufc0]

Don't know how anyone can watch what I just watched and say the defense has a strong case.

It's really juvenile, but I guess it's the only route they can take. Dr evidence given today was pretty clear cut.

 

[RedPed]

Day 9


Two weeks to dissect a blatant cop killing ffs.

 

[Tarrou]

the drug overdose defence is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my life

 

[shamans]

What I don't get is that if they are going with the "ah but he was OD'ing anyway" angle, surely you call an ambulance and try to stabilise him instead of sitting on his neck? Or are they past this now?

I believe according to the defense they'd say we didn't know it was drug related in the moment. That's why I think they have a "strong" case. There are too many avenues for 'doubt' in here.

 

[Pexbo]

I believe according to the defense they'd say we didn't know it was drug related in the moment. That's why I think they have a "strong" case. There are too many avenues for 'doubt' in here.

Haven’t the defence explicitly made the point that he was restraining him because he was suspected to be on meth? Bit of a stretch if they then say they didn’t think it was drug related after that and if they didn’t think it was drug related what did they think and why didn’t it illicit an appropriate response?

 

[Tarrou]

I believe according to the defense they'd say we didn't know it was drug related in the moment. That's why I think they have a "strong" case. There are too many avenues for 'doubt' in here.

how is this a strong case?

he didn’t OD, he died because someone suffocated him and there’s a video of it

where’s the doubt?

 

[Anustart89]

the drug overdose defence is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in my life

Especially since part of their defence is that they have him taking a bunch of drugs in the face of an arrest before and not dying that time. Hmm, what could possibly be the difference between the two incidents.

 

[Gehrman]

Haven’t the defence explicitly made the point that he was restraining him because he was suspected to be on meth? Bit of a stretch if they then say they didn’t think it was drug related after that and if they didn’t think it was drug related what did they think and why didn’t it illicit an appropriate response?

They suspected he was showing signs of having excited delirium and Floyd admitted he was on something but didn't say what.

 

[Gehrman]

Especially since part of their defence is that they have him taking a bunch of drugs in the face of an arrest before and not dying that time. Hmm, what could possibly be the difference between the two incidents.

The difference would be which drugs he took and whether the amount was lethal. In the case where he died he did have a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system and shouted he couldn't breathe 8 times before any restraint was applied to his neck. Obviously not exusing the 9,5 minutes on neck here. But from the original video we got the impression that he was saying he couldn't breathe solely because of the knee on his neck. From the full footage we saw that he was saying that repeatedly before that.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

The difference would be which drugs he took and whether the amount was lethal. In the case where he died he did have a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system and shouted he couldn't breathe 8 times before any restraint was applied to his neck. Obviously not exusing the 9,5 minutes on neck here. But from the original video we got the impression that he was saying he couldn't breathe solely because of the knee on his neck. From the full footage we saw that he was saying that repeatedly before that.

I still don't understand what reason can be given for Chauvin placing his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes. Doing so to a man who is handcuffed, face down on the ground, panicking and already saying he can't breathe.

Perhaps the fentanyl contributed to his death, but regardless it's such an obviously dangerous and seemingly needless thing to do

 

[Gehrman]

I still don't understand what reason can be given for Chauvin placing his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes. Doing so to a man who is handcuffed, face down on the ground, panicking and already saying he can't breathe.

Perhaps the fentanyl contributed to his death, but regardless it's such an obviously dangerous and seemingly needless thing to do

I completely agree. If he doesn't get convicted on 3rd degree murder, I think either reckless manslaughter or gross negligence should be the bare minimum.

 

[Stactix]

I still don't understand what reason can be given for Chauvin placing his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly 10 minutes. Doing so to a man who is handcuffed, face down on the ground, panicking and already saying he can't breathe.

Perhaps the fentanyl contributed to his death, but regardless it's such an obviously dangerous and seemingly needless thing to do

From what one of the Doctors said about timing should be enough to put this to bed.

After seeing there was no pulse.. Chauvin did not remove his knee for another 2mins 30.

I'm sorry what the feck.

 

[Gehrman]

Day 9


Two weeks to dissect a blatant cop killing ffs.

Great day for the prosecution this.

 

[hobbers]

how is this a strong case?

he didn’t OD, he died because someone suffocated him and there’s a video of it

where’s the doubt?

He definitely OD'd. He ingested a lethal amount of fentanyl plus had who knows what else in his system. He was struggling to breathe before any police officer came in contact with him.

The questions are to what extent did Chauvin contribute to his death, and whether Floyd could have been saved were he given treatment and not neglected for 10 minutes.

 

[The Firestarter]

The questions are to what extent did Chauvin contribute to his death, and whether Floyd could have been saved were he given treatment and not neglected for 10 minutes.

Christ on a bike..

 

[WI_Red]

Christ on a bike..

That is the exact sentiment that the defense team wants the jurors having.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

He definitely OD'd. He ingested a lethal amount of fentanyl plus had who knows what else in his system. He was struggling to breathe before any police officer came in contact with him.

Says who? You can’t just say something you’ve heard. Toxicology reports do not support your post at all. You’re lying. You’re repeating lies. Stop.

 

[calodo2003]

That is the exact sentiment that the defense team wants the jurors having.

Yep. Only takes one.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Says who? You can’t just say something you’ve heard. Toxicology reports do not support your post at all. You’re lying. You’re repeating lies. Stop.

Toxicology report on Day 5 showed that George Floyd had taken at least 4.4mg of fentanyl within 30 minutes of his death (blood concentration: 11ng/ml peaking at 16ng/ml)...while the lethal dose is circa 2mg. Even just the 0.4 of that 4.4mg qualifies as 'extreme risk of overdose'...never mind adding another 10 of those doses on top, while also throwing some meth into the mix.

Another source for the 2mg lethal dose, and increased danger of mixing drugs:

The estimated lethal dose of fentanyl in humans is 2 mg. The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml. Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.

Poly-substance use drastically lowers the overdose threshold of fentanyl

The defence also have 16 different doctors ready to testify on this next week.

 

[2mufc0]

Toxicology report on Day 5 showed that George Floyd had taken at least 4.4mg of fentanyl within 30 minutes of his death (blood concentration: 11ng/ml peaking at 16ng/ml)...while the lethal dose is circa 2mg. Even just the 0.4 of that 4.4mg qualifies as 'extreme risk of overdose'...never mind adding another 10 of those doses on top, while also throwing some meth into the mix.

Another source for the 2mg lethal dose, and increased danger of mixing drugs:





The defence also have 16 different doctors ready to testify on this next week.

Even if that's true, instead of seeking medical assistance he decides to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes.

 

[hobbers]

Christ on a bike..

For what it's worth I think his actions obviously did contribute. But just like the star witness ICU doctor was saying in his evidence yesterday, it wasn't just Chauvin's actions. It was a load of contributing factors from his handcuffs and position his hands were forced into, the position he was forced into on the floor, the weight of the other officer on his back compressing his lungs...

Says who? You can’t just say something you’ve heard. Toxicology reports do not support your post at all. You’re lying. You’re repeating lies. Stop.

He overdosed, period. You don't need to die from an overdose to call it an overdose. If you take 10 ibuprofen tablets it probably won't kill you, but you have still overdosed.

The toxicology report showed Floyd had a potentially lethal amount of fentanyl in his bloodstream. That is the very definition of an overdose.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Even if that's true, instead of seeking medical assistance he decides to kneel on his neck for 9 minutes.

Definitely agree, which is why I think manslaughter is most likely of the three charges. For the other two they have to prove intent or depraved mind.

Counter to the manslaughter charge though...the defence is arguing that Minnesota Police are trained to restrain suspects until EMS crews arrive - and that the knee (the defence say on Floyd's back/shoulder) was also in their training manuals (KARE11 - NBC affiliate in Minnesota).

One of the prosecution witnesses - Officer Nicole McKenzie - agreed with both of these things, hence why she's being called back by the defence next week.

 

[Carolina Red]

What are they asking the medical examiner about with regards to Canada?

 

[2mufc0]

What are they asking the medical examiner about with regards to Canada?

Something about the studies regarding being in a prone position for periods of time.

 

[2mufc0]

Definitely agree, which is why I think manslaughter is most likely of the three charges. For the other two they have to prove intent or depraved mind.

Counter to the manslaughter charge though...the defence is arguing that Minnesota Police are trained to restrain suspects until EMS crews arrive - and that the knee (the defence say on Floyd's back/shoulder) was also in their training manuals (KARE11 - NBC affiliate in Minnesota).

One of the prosecution witnesses - Officer Nicole McKenzie - agreed with both of these things, hence why she's being called back by the defence next week.

It will be interesting to hear who the defence bring in with regards to the medical aspect. The prosecution medical witnesses have not hesitated to state in their expert opinion the cause of death was asphyxia.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

It will be interesting to hear who the defence bring in with regards to the medical aspect.

Definitely. We've already got the names - and from a quick Google, most of them seem to be in similar fields: mostly respiratory doctors, four cardiologists, three who specialise in the treatment and management of drug overdoses, two orthapedic doctors specialising in the back and neck. They've got a stacked 'roster' as it were...16, compared to the defences 5 (which always seemed weirdly low to me, given that all charges hinge on the medical issues).

Another weirdly negligent thing from the prosecution (imo)...from the documents today, the defence just got this video admitted into their approved evidence for next week with no objection whatsoever from the proseuction. Surely they could have at least argued relevance? Instead they just let it pass through.


The man in the video isn't even Floyd. I presume it's been submitted to argue something about the restraint.

 

[Carolina Red]

Something about the studies regarding being in a prone position for periods of time.

Gotcha. Thanks

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

For what it's worth I think his actions obviously did contribute. But just like the star witness ICU doctor was saying in his evidence yesterday, it wasn't just Chauvin's actions. It was a load of contributing factors from his handcuffs and position his hands were forced into, the position he was forced into on the floor, the weight of the other officer on his back compressing his lungs...




He overdosed, period. You don't need to die from an overdose to call it an overdose. If you take 10 ibuprofen tablets it probably won't kill you, but you have still overdosed.

The toxicology report showed Floyd had a potentially lethal amount of fentanyl in his bloodstream. That is the very definition of an overdose.

Im happy for you to prove me wrong. But that’s not at all true based on what I’ve read.

 

[Gehrman]

Im happy for you to prove me wrong. But that’s not at all true based on what I’ve read.

Then you've been reading the wrong information. He had well above the lethal threshold of fentanyl in his system and some meth as well. I'ts not a given that's what killed him, but it's not without relevance.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Toxicology report on Day 5 showed that George Floyd had taken at least 4.4mg of fentanyl within 30 minutes of his death (blood concentration: 11ng/ml peaking at 16ng/ml)...while the lethal dose is circa 2mg. Even just the 0.4 of that 4.4mg qualifies as 'extreme risk of overdose'...never mind adding another 10 of those doses on top, while also throwing some meth into the mix.

Another source for the 2mg lethal dose, and increased danger of mixing drugs:





The defence also have 16 different doctors ready to testify on this next week.

I don’t give a Fcuk about 16 people lining up to testify. They’ll only pick people that say what they want.

That blood concentration is not ridiculously high. Nor does it absolutely constitute an overdose. It’s a level that regular users will see day to day. A narrative is being attached that’s not grounded in reality.

The defences case is borderline criminal. The whole thing is a sham and should disgust everyone.