German Football 20/21

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
Honestly I don't see why Schalke would be a favourites for promotion next year. Harit is a player who could get a team promoted almost by himself, but he will be the first out the door. They don't have a lot of players where you'd say: "well he's not quite good enough for the 1st division, but he's going to tear up the 2nd" Burgstaller was someone like that, but they gave him to St. Pauli for free. I suppose they will have a solid central defense and Fährmann, but in attack? Raman to the rescue? Uth? They have no team spirit or positive collective mentality and thanks to their financial obligations they will probably be forced to pull a lot of money out of a squad that's already down its bare bones, rather than invest.

On the other side I think it's time to give Terzic some credit for changing the squads mentality for the better, even if the system might not be sound enough to make top 4 in the end.
 

HerrLeinad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
232
Supports
Bayern München
Honestly I don't see why Schalke would be a favourites for promotion next year. Harit is a player who could get a team promoted almost by himself, but he will be the first out the door. They don't have a lot of players where you'd say: "well he's not quite good enough for the 1st division, but he's going to tear up the 2nd" Burgstaller was someone like that, but they gave him to St. Pauli for free. I suppose they will have a solid central defense and Fährmann, but in attack? Raman to the rescue? Uth? They have no team spirit or positive collective mentality and thanks to their financial obligations they will probably be forced to pull a lot of money out of a squad that's already down its bare bones, rather than invest.

On the other side I think it's time to give Terzic some credit for changing the squads mentality for the better, even if the system might not be sound enough to make top 4 in the end.
The thing that should really worry Schalke is that their youth is also not producing anything great at the moment. In previous years a demotion could have been a great chance for many youngsters but their current crop isn't really exciting.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
The thing that should really worry Schalke is that their youth is also not producing anything great at the moment. In previous years a demotion could have been a great chance for many youngsters but their current crop isn't really exciting.
They have a couple of players who could be good enough for the second division: Bozdogan, Mercan, Hoppe and in particular Thiaw and Kutucu. Though somehow they have loaned out the latter, while they played everyone and their mother as striker. Honestly I think they can be happy if they don't have to battle for relegation and survive the licensing next year. But my feeling is that they will go down all the way into bankruptcy. The burden of their debt has always been a dance on the razor's edge and corona as well as relegation being not one but two catastrophic events to tip the scales against their favor and this will probably be fatal.
It's a pity for the league as well, because whether you like them or not they create a ton of drama and narratives. I've never seen so much pity for a club from opposing staff and players.

Some fans showing up to have a chat with their team:


on the other side of the Ruhr:


I mean it reminds you of better/normal times, but I'm not sure why police allow such a gathering.

Oh and respect to A. Younes for going beyond the obligatory gesture after scoring a screamer against Bayern:
 
Last edited:

stefan92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
23
Supports
Hannover 96
It really looks like Dortmund made the right decision by announcing Roses move to them now. Gladbach totally lost it for now, and by keeping Terzic as an assistant coach to Rose next season they made sure, that he is not a lame duck but still has full authority even looking forward to the next season.

But it will still be a very tough task for them to get back into top 4, Frankfurt and Wolfsburg just show too much stability this season (and fun fact: yesterday Frankfurt won against Bayern, but still dropped in the table because of Wolfsburgs higher win, that's how close these two teams are, while having impressive runs - Frankfurt now at 11 unbeaten games, and Wolfsburg 8 unbeaten games - the last 6 of those without a goal against them).

And the bottom of the table is also up for a fight - Mainz had just 7 points after the first half of the season (just like Schalke), but now got 10 points out of the last 5 games, and that against the upper half of the table (wins over Leipzig, Union and Gladbach, a draw against Leverkusen). So they now closed the gap and the run for the second last place is again very open - the Big City Club could get into massive trouble if they don't turn their season around quickly...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
It really looks like Dortmund made the right decision by announcing Roses move to them now. Gladbach totally lost it for now, and by keeping Terzic as an assistant coach to Rose next season they made sure, that he is not a lame duck but still has full authority even looking forward to the next season.

But it will still be a very tough task for them to get back into top 4, Frankfurt and Wolfsburg just show too much stability this season (and fun fact: yesterday Frankfurt won against Bayern, but still dropped in the table because of Wolfsburgs higher win, that's how close these two teams are, while having impressive runs - Frankfurt now at 11 unbeaten games, and Wolfsburg 8 unbeaten games - the last 6 of those without a goal against them).

And the bottom of the table is also up for a fight - Mainz had just 7 points after the first half of the season (just like Schalke), but now got 10 points out of the last 5 games, and that against the upper half of the table (wins over Leipzig, Union and Gladbach, a draw against Leverkusen). So they now closed the gap and the run for the second last place is again very open - the Big City Club could get into massive trouble if they don't turn their season around quickly...
Gladbach is fecked, because Dortmund have signed their coach mid-season and because they couldn't cope with the schedule. I wouldn't turn the announcement (which Gladbach made themselves, seemingly entirely uncoordinated with Dortmund) into some kind of 4d chess move.

Every 5 years or so Wolfsburg have a good season, every time people say they are there to stay, every time it turns out to be a one hit wonder.
Wolfsburg and Frankfurt are below 2ppg, this isn't so much them playing fantastic seasons as it is clubs like Dortmund, Leverkusen and Gladbach struggling. They are also benefiting from not playing in Europe, especially with the compressed schedule, that has been crushing Gladbach and to a degree even Bayern.
Two thirds of the season have been played, so after making it this far and building up a comfortable cushion towards fifth place they may very well both finish the season inside top four, but next season will be a different story entirely:
Wolfsburg's attack is weak, you have to go down all the way to 11th place to find a team that scored less goals. Weghorst is their one quality attacker and he seems to be looking for a move. At the moment they do a great job defensively and they are efficient with the openings they get, but much like your typical Mourinho cycle that's not a sustainable recipe for success. Frankfurt are riding a purple patch on the back of Andre Silva's spectacular form.
If VW are generous in the summer and Wolfsburg can sign a couple of good attacking players I can see them staying relevant, but odds are both clubs will revert to midtable/EL challenger next year.

Mainz were unfortunate to be as low on points as they were and they seem to have made some good adjustments over Christmas. At the moment my bet would be either Bielefeld (they have the worst squad) or Cologne (they play the worst football) falling victim to their improvement.
 

stefan92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
23
Supports
Hannover 96
Gladbach is fecked, because Dortmund have signed their coach mid-season and because they couldn't cope with the schedule. I wouldn't turn the announcement (which Gladbach made themselves, seemingly entirely uncoordinated with Dortmund) into some kind of 4d chess move.
I agree with you, still I think Dortmund did resolve this the best way possible (ensuring they get a good coach for next season, yet keeping the current one as an assistant to have some continuity despite changing the head coaching)

Every 5 years or so Wolfsburg have a good season, every time people say they are there to stay, every time it turns out to be a one hit wonder.
Wolfsburg and Frankfurt are below 2ppg, this isn't so much them playing fantastic seasons as it is clubs like Dortmund, Leverkusen and Gladbach struggling. They are also benefiting from not playing in Europe, especially with the compressed schedule, that has been crushing Gladbach and to a degree even Bayern.
Two thirds of the season have been played, so after making it this far and building up a comfortable cushion towards fifth place they may very well both finish the season inside top four, but next season will be a different story entirely:
Wolfsburg's attack is weak, you have to go down all the way to 11th place to find a team that scored less goals. Weghorst is their one quality attacker and he seems to be looking for a move. At the moment they do a great job defensively and they are efficient with the openings they get, but much like your typical Mourinho cycle that's not a sustainable recipe for success. Frankfurt are riding a purple patch on the back of Andre Silva's spectacular form.
Right, I was only speaking about this season - keeping this level up next season will be quite difficult. However I do not think that Frankfurts run is only due to Silva (and that they won yesterday without him and at least outplayed Bayern for one half proved that for me).
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
Right, I was only speaking about this season - keeping this level up next season will be quite difficult. However I do not think that Frankfurts run is only due to Silva (and that they won yesterday without him and at least outplayed Bayern for one half proved that for me).
It's of course not all Andre Silva, but they are a streaky team and his form gave them the results that created their current momentum.

What is it with Leverkusen's keepers? That one rivalled Hradecky's own goal against Bielefeld.
 
Last edited:

JuliaScalaR

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
55
Supports
noone in particular
That's some goal :drool:
I feel he was slightly lucky. It looked like the ball bounced just before he hit it and that's why it took this dipping curve.
The pitch looks rather bad.

Also by winning this match Leipzig narrows the gap to Bayern down to two points. We might get a title race after all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
Two points between us and Leipzig. A title race, maybe?
Nah. Replacing Werner and Schick with Sörloth killed Leipzig's chances this season. Things work out often enough to finish second, but they won't beat Bayern on points when they have rely completely on midfielders and defenders to score.

Hertha with 2 points from their last 8. They need to wake up soon. Would be hilarious though, for them to get relegated after spending all of Windhorst's money.


Going by that pre match interview Kohfeldt is among the candidates at Gladbach.
 
Last edited:

stefan92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
23
Supports
Hannover 96
It's of course not all Andre Silva, but they are a streaky team and his form gave them the results that created their current momentum.
I think his great form started when Frankfurt switched to their current 3-4-2-1 system and when he started to play as a lone striker, it was not so much that his form improved, but that their overall attack improved a lot and played with much more creativity and fluidity than before - he was the one who took advantage of it, but he does not carry them in the same way that Weghorst carries Wolfsburg. Kamada and Younes are much more important for Frankfurt than whoever leads the line (but obviously it is great to have an in-form striker, I will not deny that).
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
I think his great form started when Frankfurt switched to their current 3-4-2-1 system and when he started to play as a lone striker, it was not so much that his form improved, but that their overall attack improved a lot and played with much more creativity and fluidity than before - he was the one who took advantage of it, but he does not carry them in the same way that Weghorst carries Wolfsburg. Kamada and Younes are much more important for Frankfurt than whoever leads the line (but obviously it is great to have an in-form striker, I will not deny that).
I mean he's playing as much a (close to) world class season as you can deliver at a club like Frankfurt, whoscored's index basically has him tied for second best player in the league. It's a bit like saying Lewandowski is just the one taking advantage of Bayern's attack. He's Frankfurt's difference between being well drilled and easy on the eye, but inconsistent and them getting 28 points out of their last 10 matches.
 

stefan92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
23
Supports
Hannover 96
I mean he's playing as much a (close to) world class season as you can deliver at a club like Frankfurt, whoscored's index basically has him tied for second best player in the league. It's a bit like saying Lewandowski is just the one taking advantage of Bayern's attack. He's Frankfurt's difference between being well drilled and easy on the eye, but inconsistent and them getting 28 points out of their last 10 matches.
So you mostly agree with me, without him Frankfurt are still a well-drilled and well-playing team. He improves their chances to score due to his great form and therefore obviously increases their chances to win games, but he is not the player that makes them play the way do, so he is replacable (arguably with a loss of quality as Jovic is out of form) without the team collapsing.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
So you mostly agree with me, without him Frankfurt are still a well-drilled and well-playing team. He improves their chances to score due to his great form and therefore obviously increases their chances to win games, but he is not the player that makes them play the way do, so he is replacable (arguably with a loss of quality as Jovic is out of form) without the team collapsing.
Well that depends on how you define replaceable and collapsing. Jovic is a great finisher when in form, but he's nowhere near as complete and influential a player as Silva. Who is en route to score close to 30 goals this season. You replace him with a regular Frankfurt level player and they are back at 6th-10th place. Whether you want to call that a collapse is subjective I guess.
 

stefan92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
23
Supports
Hannover 96
Well that depends on how you define replaceable and collapsing. Jovic is a great finisher when in form, but he's nowhere near as complete and influential a player as Silva. Who is en route to score close to 30 goals this season. You replace him with a regular Frankfurt level player and they are back at 6th-10th place. Whether you want to call that a collapse is subjective I guess.
But he is a regular "Frankfurt level player" who is having a great season. So I believe with another striker on their level up front they would have a few points less, but not so many that they would be in danger of missing the EL.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
It might be my bias but I noticed several times Hummel doesn't cope well being partnered with players he doesn't fully trust, and he trusts so very few (it is hard to be as awesome as he sees himself..)
I wouldn't say it's about trust. Hummels has a very distinct profile: he doesn't have recovery pace and he likes to step out of the back line and defend. He needs a partner to balance that out, someone who will approach situations more reactive and who can cover for him. Can doesn't have the patience or positional discipline/intelligence to do that job. I think he was quite good as as the b2b CB (as far as I know that's a term now) when the team was playing with a back three, but in a back four he's not a reliable CB.
 

strongwalker

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,196
Location
2km from Olympiastadion München
Supports
FC Bayern München
I wouldn't say it's about trust. Hummels has a very distinct profile: he doesn't have recovery pace and he likes to step out of the back line and defend. He needs a partner to balance that out, someone who will approach situations more reactive and who can cover for him. Can doesn't have the patience or positional discipline/intelligence to do that job. I think he was quite good as as the b2b CB (as far as I know that's a term now) when the team was playing with a back three, but in a back four he's not a reliable CB.
Definitely, in a modern tactical setup, having the "mechanics" (tackling, marking, heading etc..) is just the foundation, positioning and decision making in correlation to what your immediate teammates do is immensely complex. I dare say in defense even more so than in midfield or attack, because errors are harder to fix and more obvious to the spectator as well.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
I don't get what's wrong with that. It's the same company with the ad, why would they have different ads?
Bayern have recently been under renewed criticism for their services to Qatar.

The reported 6500 dead construction workers in Qatar didn't sit well with a lot of people either.

A heart warming "we miss you" copy pasted ad agency video wouldn't resonate well with the anti commercialisation sentiment of fans, even without the Qatar link.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
6,576
Frankfurt seems to be hit by the "winning against Bayern means losing the next match(es)"-curse...
 
Last edited:

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany

Apparently some of Schalke's squad leaders have asked Schalke's director of Sport Jochen Schneider (who - by the way - is a bit of a lame duck as the club has announced they will release him at the end of the season and others are doing the planning for next season) to sack Christian Gross (their 3rd head coach already this season) at the beginning of this week, because they don't want to work with him anymore. Schneider supposedly refused - for now.
 

mazhar13

Kermit Inc. 2020
Scout
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
13,897
Location
Toronto, Canada

Apparently some of Schalke's squad leaders have asked Schalke's director of Sport Jochen Schneider (who - by the way - is a bit of a lame duck as the club has announced they will release him at the end of the season and others are doing the planning for next season) to sack Christian Gross (their 3rd head coach already this season) at the beginning of this week, because they don't want to work with him anymore. Schneider supposedly refused - for now.
Yeah, when the players aren't keen on working with Gross, then you wonder why Schalke even went after him. Anyways, that's nothing new. They're a terribly run club nowadays.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
8,954
Location
Germany
Yeah, when the players aren't keen on working with Gross, then you wonder why Schalke even went after him. Anyways, that's nothing new. They're a terribly run club nowadays.
I think by now most fans have accepted that they will go down, probably before the loss against Dortmund even. All they want now is to get this over with a shred of dignity, but as it turns out even that is impossible.

Ealier this week David Wagner (he's one to talk now..) also told the press that he created a three year plan based on budgets that he was promised and mere eight weeks later the money was suddenly gone. And this supposedly happened before Corona hit football even.

Given how cash strapped they appear to be I assume they didn't exactly have a long list of candidates willing to take over. Gross supposedly signed a contract with next to no wages, but a 7 figure bonus for avoiding relegation. It's something you agree to when you're either desperate or you're already retired and willing to take one last adventure.
 

mazhar13

Kermit Inc. 2020
Scout
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
13,897
Location
Toronto, Canada
I think by now most fans have accepted that they will go down, probably before the loss against Dortmund even. All they want now is to get this over with a shred of dignity, but as it turns out even that is impossible.

Ealier this week David Wagner (he's one to talk now..) also told the press that he created a three year plan based on budgets that he was promised and mere eight weeks later the money was suddenly gone. And this supposedly happened before Corona hit football even.
Yeah, I know an American Schalke fan who's basically accepted Schalke's fate. Nothing really dents him now; he just wants next season to start.

Wagner saying that just goes to show how badly run Schalke has been. I didn't expect them to fall so hard after their last top 4 finish, but to go from that to an inevitable relegation a few seasons after makes me feel sorry for their fans.
 

Hansi Fick

Full Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
630
Supports
FC Bayern
I don't understand why Hernandez never gets a start. I don't even say this to complain, I just fail to understand.
 

Raredaredevil

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Messages
328
Bayern Munich 1-0. Won't be surprised if Dortmund drop points again, they can't seem to sustain a winning run. Stuttgart already 2-0 up, my god Schalke is seriously so shit. They are definitely not going to escape relegation this year.
 

RashyForPM

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
2,548
Lewandowski can analyse where to finish any shot in a matter of milliseconds. He then places it perfectly into the corner. Best striker in the world for sure.